DotA2 - Original Thread

[Words]

Good games earlier guys.

So how much did I suck? =P

I'm up for more if I'm online, just send me a message like Words did yesterday.

Not as much as I did :D
It was fun, anyway.

[Polantaris]

Not as much as I did :D
It was fun, anyway.

Don't worry, we can suck together.

[Malthe]

Good games today, let's do it again some time.

Definitely, was a ton of fun.

Anyone up for a clan of southperry?

Yea, i'll make it. I suppose nobody has anything against a chinchilla related name?

Good games earlier guys.

So how much did I suck? =P

I'm up for more if I'm online, just send me a message like Words did yesterday.

You didn't suck at all, believe me i've seen much much much worse, for new players you both did well.

[Dusk]

Good games earlier guys.

So how much did I suck? =P

I'm up for more if I'm online, just send me a message like Words did yesterday.

I was actually impressed by your Shackles, you landed a lot of really nice ones. And Words wasn't bad at all for someone who just started playing a few weeks ago.

[Words]

I was actually impressed by your Shackles, you landed a lot of really nice ones. And Words wasn't bad at all for someone who just started playing a few weeks ago.

1 week
But yeah, thanks :P

Also, I've been watching and reading a lot about heroes that don't need much farm and I think I might enjoy Lycan.
Only problem I'm having right now is that easy bot games are either too easy or too dumb and human games are too hard or filled with people that play well so I end up screwing up or doing nothing...

[Malthe]

Lycan actually needs decent farm, and was nerfed to hell last patch. He literally has no real way to be played effeciently at the moment.
And you should just go play hard bot games and keep at it, it'll probably be rough at first because the bots are quite decent at laning, but it'll teach you a lot! :)

If you find a hero you want to learn more about, i'd gladly write up a guide for it.

Also if anyone needs an invite to the SP team ingame, just tell me.

And as dusk said, for the amount of time you've played, you're doing great. You're better than i was after months of playing DotA1, not even kidding, granted i didn't try to learn at all and was a sore loser back then, haha.

[Words]

I like medium bot games because it allows me to practice last hitting/denies while being "contended". Hard games I get no farm and later in the game I do nothing :P
I'm trying noob friendly support Heroes and I'm enjoying Windrunner, I see why Polantris chose her in the games we had. I can't get used to Lich/Crystal Maiden... last hitting with them is harder, I like Lich's denying skill though.
What other noob friendly support heroes would you guys recommend?

[Malthe]

You don't have to know how to last-hit with lich and crystal maiden though, same goes for most supports. They don't need the last-hits since someone else will be taking them to stack gold on one hero since items become increasingly more effective the more you have on one hero.

Other easy/noob friendly support heroes:
Tidehunter, venomancer, Ogre magi.


In DotA you usually split the 5 heroes into 5 positions.
It goes from first position to fifth position.
And it's about how much farm/gold you want on that hero.
1st position is usually a carry type hero, that ends up 'carrying' you to victory with enough gold.
2nd position are usually heroes that go mid because they need both exp and gold to be effective in the mid-game.
3rd positions are usually either going to be jungling or in the 'hard lane'.
4th positions are usually either going to be jungling or with the carry or roaming the map to attempt to get kills.
5th positions are usually with the first position protecting him in the early game.

What lanes they go to and who does what can change from game to game though, but these are very general guidelines.

lich and crystal maiden are very iconic 5th position heroes where wind-runner is great in the hard-lane and is a typical 3rd position although she has been seen utilized in the 4th position.


"Generic heroes" for the different positions:

1st:

Spoiler

• Anti-mage
• Luna
• Drow ranger
• Sniper
• Juggernaut
• Outworld Destroyer

2nd:

Spoiler

• Queen of Pain
• Invoker
• Tinker
• Templar assassin
• Brewmaster

3rd:

Spoiler

• Windrunner
• Beast master
• Dark seer
• Lone druid
• Bounty hunter

4th:

Spoiler

• Enchantress
• Chen
• Enigma
• Sand king
• Undying

5th:

Spoiler

• Crystal maiden
• Lich
• Vengeful spirit
• Venomancer
• Leshrac

[Polantaris]

Curious, @Malthe;
I saw several builds on DOTA2Fire that suggested to try to play Windrunner as a carry.

How do you feel about that? I can see how it would be possible, but I don't see how you would get away with that in games with all good players, though.

[Malthe]

@Polantaris
Dotafire is a pretty bad website for guides honestly :( Sadly there's no hood hub for DotA2 guides. I've been thinking of writing a small mini-guide for every single hero, might do that tonight/tomorrow. Would include general role, general skill-build and general items and a few tips on how-to-play, is that something anybody would be interested in?

Wind runner works as a carry lategame, she's not a good one if built directly into one, but after getting up some core items on her, like boots mekansm/pipe of insight + forcestaff + scythe of vyse you can start building items such as Desolator, daedalus and MKB to increase her DPS.

There's a lot of heroes like this though, if you're a ranged hero in the third position building up some DPS past your core items is pretty common.

But the utility forcestaff, mekansm/pipe of insight and a scythe of vyse give your team are invaluable.

Not that you can't build her as a carry, it's viable, just not quite as good.

Spoiler

If you were to try and build her as a carry i'd go for power treads of phase boots.
The items i would get would be
For defensive purposes: Linkens sphere or Black king bar.
For offensive purposes: Desolator, Monkey king bar, orchid of malevolence, Daedalus.

And tossing in a maelstrom or crystalis without upgrading them between items also work.

Diffusal blade is a great item on her too if you want to remove mana from a target or need to purge something from an enemy(You can purge away all the buffs omni knight provides for his team, for example) and aghanims scepter is also pretty decent in the mid to lategame on her when you have the mana regen to cast your ult when it's off cooldown.

And for the why the pineapple not items:
Eye of skadhi(It's too expensive to be gotten otherwise, but not bad if you're winning hard or just have a lot of cash, or if it's super late-game.)
Satanic(It's pretty expensive and it generally wont save a WR in a fight, but if it's late or if you're winning, you can get it for the lifesteal and strength)
Rapier(Well, if you're winning, this kicks ass)
And.. battlefury, as weird as that sounds. It's not a BAD item on wind runner, she doesn't benefit from the cleave but she needs the mana regen and it has a good damage:gold ratio, if you aren't building an orchid or linkens for some reason, i guess this could work.

Carry WR can be done and it's not bad, it's just that utility windrunner with carry items in the late-game is better for the team, in general.
but if you want to build her as a carry for fun, by all means you can do it.

Windrunner is just a great hero because.. She's so versatile, she can help her team at all parts of the game and doesn't fall too much off at any point, if you look past that her prime-time is around 15~25 minutes, she's not much worse after that but her damage is just relative at its 'prime' in that period and she's amazing as an aggressive hero.

Also a fun fact: Although you'd think attack speed is pointless on her with her ulti, she has a BAT(Base Attack Time) of 1.5 which is really low.
BAT affects how much attack speed improves your actual rate of attack, most heroes have 1.7(95% of the hero pool i think) and then there are some that get reduced BAT from their skills(Lycan, lone druid, alchemist) and heroes with naturally low BAT(Anti-mage, huskar and wind-runner) and heroes with naturally high BAT(Treant protector at 1.9)

Lower BAT=good. Doesn't mean building attack-speed if the goal for a wind-runner that wants to carry though.

Also, Unique attack modifiers don't stack, generally.
But desolator applies a debuff and can work with mjollnir or maelstrom due to this, since it'll apply a desolator debuff and even if mjollnir or maelstrom trigger in the middle of your attacks you'll still have the benefit from both modifiers. So you CAN get maelstrom for farming purposes on windrunner coupled with a desolator for damage, if you really want.

spoilered a lot of it because wall of text.

[Words]

Leshrac is really fun! First time I tried him I missed all stuns, but the second game with him was much better.
Also, I don't know if it's because I'm playing easy/medium bot games but everyone dies a lot. Even if I play my stun right to give some time to the carry to escape, they somehow manage to die... so I get to farm/deny a lot while they walk back. That's why I was "worried" about it.
I'll try Venomancer, but I think I'm gonna stick with Leshrac for a while, any tips? :3

[Malthe]

@Words
Leshrac can be played in quite a few different roles, when coupled with a good slow and stun he can play as 5th position and just help get kills, he can also 4th position in a trilane(3 people in the same lane going for kills most of the time)
And then there is 2nd position leshrac.

Spoiler

The build you go for varies from game to game but i'd say, the most beginner friendly leshrac build is probably going to be Maxing split earth first, then max diabolic edict and THEN put points into your ulti and ignore lightning storm and just get stats. Lightning is good if you need to stop a push, but for a second position leschrac(Going solo mid) it's usually not worth getting points into, and you don't usually have mana for your ultimate early on which is why you go 4-4-0-0 since it's more mana-effecient.

Other builds include:
4-4-4-0 into stats.
1-4-4-0 keeping stun at level 1 till the others are maxed(this is only if you have allies that makes it sure you wont need the extra range.
4-0-4-0 with not touching edict which is decent for a 4th~5th position leshrach.

He's a very versatile hero and if you want you can get his pulse nova at level 6, 11 and 16 but you'll just very rarely have the mana for it.

Items are usually:
Arcane boots, which you can disassemble(Rightclick the item to split it into main components, this only works on very few items that don't use a recipe).
You disassemble it when you're trying to build a bloodstone because then you save 1k gold and bloodstone should solve all your mana problems.

Although if you're 4th or 5th position you'll most likely not be able to afford a bloodstone, which means just keep your arcane boots.
Other boots that work are either phase boots if you really need the chasing power or power treads if you really need the extra strength for HP.

good items on him include:
Bracers(If you just need to get more HP), Drums of endurance, sheepstick, shivas guard, euls scepter of divinity(Allows you to 100% land your stun if you time it right), Aghanims scepter, force staff(Great support item to give yourself an escape mechanism), ghost scepter(If you have problems surviving due to physical damage, Black King Bar(If you get the farm, this is great to allow you unhindered movement mid-fight, Necronomicon(If you want to take towers early on), Urn(Good for support leshrac), Mekansm(can be gotten on lesh if nobody else is suited for it.

I didnt' list the items in order of importance, but leshrac is a VERY versatile hero so there's a lot of paths to go with him.

And tips for his abilities:

His cast time is 0.7 seconds, which means it takes 0.7 seconds before any spell is activated. Ontop of this his stun has a 0.35 delay, which means it takes 1.05 seconds from you try to cast your stun till it actually lands. It's a good timing to know.

Your diabolic edict is composite damage, which means it's partly physical and partly magical. It isn't blocked by magic immunity or physical immunity but is affected partly by magical armor and physical armor. It also works on towers and is a CRAZY ability for taking down towers.

Ligthning is a great tool for farming and counter-pushing.

And pulse nova.. This ability costs a lot of mana but allows you, if you have the mana for it and can survive, to work as a lawn-mower, you stand in the middle of everything dealing massive damage to everybody.

I hope that helped :)

Spoilered most of my two posts because wall of text.

[Dusk]

The most reliable way to use Leshrac's stun is to wait for an ally to use their stun, then throw yours a second after (most regular stuns last 1.5-2 seconds). It pretty much guarantees a kill early game if the conditions are right. For this reason, I like picking Leshrac when I'm going to lane with someone with a reliable stun, like Sven or Vengeful Spirit.

Pushing towers is so good in pubs that I almost always skip lightning and just max Edict and run down towers.

[Malthe]

A good tip for leshrac is also that you can trick your opponent, if you try to use your stun but click "S" for the stop command before your stun fires, it'll look as though you're trying to cast your stun and enemies might try to avoid it, making them run in a not-straight line of escape, meaning their escape will take more time.
It can also be used to lead your opponents into the actual stun.

His stun is very mind-game-ish, a good hero overall though.

Also i'm on christmas break now already, so i can play most of the time that i am on @ steam, just send me a message.

[DarkForgeJ]

I am the only one who plays venomancer as a carry? I don't like it as a support .-.

[Dusk]

I am the only one who plays venomancer as a carry? I don't like it as a support .-.

No, but he's squishy, lacks escapes/survivability, and his damage doesn't scale, so he's not a very good carry. He's very good as a support and very fun to play, just go around the map ganking everyone at level 1/2 with his OP slows.

[Malthe]

When i play venomancer i will mostly go solo mid, he is not a very effecient carry but can work as a second position hero where he builds up items such as mek/pipe/aghanim/Necro books/scythe of vyse.
His scaling kind of lands to be a good carry, he's not locked as a support and has been run as 2nd and 3rd position before.
But he's just such a good support that it's quite crazy, his slow is amazing and isn't dispelled by even black king bar and his ulti deals crazy damage if he gets it to level 2. And his plague wards are just one of the best tools he has for both farming, pushing, defending, scouting and so on.

Anything goes in pubs though, but venomancer + a mid-game carry = easy kills in lane.
Veno+juggernaut is a magical combo for example.

I've done silly stuff myself though, like carry lich/crystal maiden and support riki.


I've never lost mid with venomancer, for example. His ability to mid is extremely good and he's one of the stronger 1v1 heroes and will quite easily get a kill early on if the enemy overtextends just slightly.

Veno mid is the same idea as lich or enigma mid. They're such strong laners that they'll win the lane and get early items that can contribute to a mid-game strategy.

Nothing can take away the role of #1 aggressive support from veno though, him and CM are the two best supports for early agression.

[DarkForgeJ]

Relevant:

[Malthe]

DotA2 updated with the greeviling and possibly 6.77 changed(Not sure on the last one)

[DarkForgeJ]

- Frostivus arrives...and is cancelled by the Greeviling!
- Added Polycount Contest Winner Items (11 new hero sets)
- 6.77 gameplay parity update