[GMST] [0.99] Chaos
Last I checked, Spears used to be the Dark Knight weapon of choice in 4th Job. Of course, both my previous statement and your original statement are entirely irrelevant.Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon
Not sure what that last bit is supposed to insinuate, but I'll just take it as the moronic statement is.
Limiting the weapons a class can use makes for easier balance. That's simple fact.
Because Spears are generally faster than Polearms.
Is there any confirmation that we'll have the KMS event for the Dark Angelic ring recipe?
Not yet.
it also leads to less options. and here, i'll break it for ya:
spears used to be the "endgame" because the place to train was either bosses (sacrifice sucked there, fury even more) meaning that due to the stab extra damage, you would require a spear for optimal DPS.
or mobs, which rarely ever came in groups of more than three, making buster, again, optimal DPS for training not to mention, back then fury was pretty meh, while buster was incredible better in groups of 3 or less.
what was the best weapon for a DrK back then? a sky ski, for the ones that didn't go the "hybrid way" and stayed as polearm drk's, it was the purple surfboard, which wasn't as inflated until arans came along (because again, hybrid >>>) and then the arcglaive, stab multiplier and speed is what we cared about back then.
now, let's look at the trend after BB, fast five polearms: level 140, level 130, level 95, irrelevant ones, and let's look at fast 5 spears: level 43 impaler
that means that if we lost our ability to use polearms, we would lose one whole speed level, which would be where my comment of "use blunts only if you want" because it would be the same as a pally losing it's ability of using fast4/5 swords, since all BW's are normal speed. so it's no moronic statement, at least no more than yours
heck, if i lost polearms and you lost swords, you'd still be able to go for the level 140 fast 5 weapon, i would be stuck with a sky ski, or a level 140 slow weapon, not cool man, not cool.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@joe: not really because of that, but mostly because speed for a dark knight is almost everything but if we used a polearm with buster (which was the best DPS at it's time) the speed would not beat the amount of damage lost due to stabbing with a polearm, a sky ski was both speedy enough, and a spear, meaning bonus damage.
this is why everyone jumped to the arcglaive as soon as BB hit, same speed, more w.attk
Uh, am I misunderstanding something or does Empress really summon pies? Sounds like a Castellan sort of screw up.
i don't know how to feel about this, check this out, the number is the dex each of these items give:
25 Lionheart Battle Helm
07 Lionheart Battle Cape
16 Lionheart Battle Bracers
15 Lionheart Battle Boots
20 Lionheart Partisan
20 5 item lionheart bonus
03 Rising Sun Face Paint
04 Rising Sun Earrings
06 Rising Sun Ring
16 Rising Sun Pendant
10 Rising Sun Belt
20 5 item Rising Sun bonus
you know how much dex this adds? 162 motherpineappleing dex equipping these two sets on their own gives almost enough dex to equip themselves, you fall just 8 short, 4 dex short actually if you count the base and not being level 195+, and 26 over the required dex if you count the jump update skill.
did i mention you can pick wether you want the lionheart overall (30 dex, and completes the 6 set effect) or a bottom/top for the extra potential?
seriously... all you need is those easy to come by "10" or "20" dex potentials on your equips to reach the 170 dex to start "exchanging" equips for others, and you are basically done
Going Top/Bottom instead of completing the set is, simply put, a pineappleing terrible idea.
For one, you lose 30 w.att and 30% Boss out of the gate.
You trade those for, what, a maximum of 27% STR?
Yeah, gonna be pretty confident in saying that the set bonus is better no matter what.
You also lose out on using an overall that comes with w.att, meaning it can be Chaos Scrolled for more w.att.
Condensed version: only an idiot would choose a top/bottom over completing the 140 set.
Personally I rather have a slightly weaker equip set that I can sell and use on multiple characters of the same class.
why do you have to be insulting in EVERY SINGLE POST you make? i wonder. have you seen the amount of w.attk that is already coming? everything has w.attk on it, and i mean EVERYTHING, besides, not going for the overall means another almost certainly obscenely priced item, which, by the way, you suggest to chaos, which is completely random luck, look how in my post i didn't scroll anything, i just said that you don't even require the overall, if you want it, fine, have it, it's one of the options after all. we still need to see if it stacks with 30% boss on weapon (i figure it will) but anyone getting this stuff will be hitting damage cap with sacrifice constantly anyways.
besides, some, like me, aren't freaking rich, i already have a pretty nice top/bottom and shoes, not to mention the helmet, and overall, i already have the dex requirement to equip the polearm, does that make me an idiot for not equipping everything? no, it makes me poor, plain as that, my example was just showing that people saying "OMG I NEED TO ADd DEX OR I'LL SUCK" don't need to add a single point to it, provided they play around with +dex potential in their other equips.
also, i know (or hope) that the idiot comment was aimed in general, as in "if you got all that, get the overall too" but do me a favor and tone it down on the insults, besides, you still have one "moronic comment" to argue about, which is my answer to your previous post, go in order please.
I like this guy.
That wasn't why Dark Knights used Spears pre-Big Bang though.
Good point, but entirely irrelevant.
In this discussion, ShinkuDragon is comparing using 5/6 of a 140 set to using 6/6 of the set.
That means the rhetorical player has already chosen to get five pieces of armor that he can't easily sell/trade.
I'm only caustic towards things I find lacking thought.
Your hyperbole is as unnecessary as your caps lock powa.
Now time to nit and pick. (And I just noticed I missed your previous post...)
Your point?
And my point is that to forgo it is simply retarded.
If %BossDamage on weapons stacks, this will stack with them.
And, no, getting these items doesn't mean someone will be constantly doing the cap with Sacrifice.
Entirely irrelevant. That wasn't the scenario I was addressing.
You said someone could "pick wether you want the lionheart overall (30 dex, and completes the 6 set effect) or a bottom/top for the extra potential."
I pointed out that that the latter would be moronic.
No pomegranate. Stereo pointed that out months ago.
If you know that, then the entirety of your most recent post was utterly unnecessary.
And, yes, I missed your previous post. However, if I had purposely chosen not to respond of my own volition, it's not your place to instruct me how to reply.
It leads to an illusion of more options.
As it is now, the 130 and 140 Spears are utterly pointless.
Why? Because Dark Knights will always be better off with the Polearms.
No pomegranate. I'm quite aware of why Dark Knights used spears.
Thanks for backing up my point.
And the Sky Ski is a what?
So your entire post is just going to be asserting what I've already said? Well, that certainly makes this easy.
Too bad that loss of speed couldn't possibly be remedied by making other balance adjustments.
Ever consider that, perhaps, the Polearms are another Elemental Staff issue? Perhaps that these weapons weren't made with you in mind?
Also, not all 1H BWs are Normal (6). And, yes, it is a moronic statement because you've shown that you missed the point entirely.
I've said plenty of times that I wish they made Palis use 1H axes/swords/BWs, Heroes use 2H axes/swords/BWs, and Dark Knights use spears. The entire purpose would be to ensure that all weapons had some worth/use. Axes and BWs could have their base attack/multipliers adjusted appropriately to make them on-par with swords.
Hell, even now, there are plenty of Paladins who opt for Crushed Skulls since faster weapons lose all advantage whenever SI is available. This scenario doesn't exist for these new Spears.
That said, seeing as the topic of discussion was Polearms/Spears, I found that it would be diverting too much to mention the other two Adventurer Warriors.
What level 140 Fast (5) weapon that isn't a sword is your clouded mind envisioning?
Agares Bloody Hammer
1H BW - Warriors only
Set: (#18) Agares Bloody Set
Req Level: 130
Req STR: 400
Req DEX: 160
STR: +8
DEX: +4
Weapon Attack: +114
Accuracy: +50
PVP Damage: +5%
Charm EXP: +90
Equip tradeblock
Platinum Scissors of Karma
Fast(5)
8 slots
Agares Headsplitter
1H Axe - Warriors only
Set: (#18) Agares Bloody Set
Req Level: 130
Req STR: 400
Req DEX: 160
STR: +8
DEX: +4
Weapon Attack: +114
Accuracy: +50
PVP Damage: +5%
Charm EXP: +90
Equip tradeblock
Platinum Scissors of Karma
Fast(5)
8 slots
hmmmmmmmmmmmm...........................
WHOA
ARE THOSE FAST 5 WEAPONS I SEE?
AND THEY AREN'T SWORDS?
OH MAH GAWD.
i'll just answer liberally, the quoting has gotten too big for my liking
the whole point of my post as to say that adding dex wasn't required, that was the only thing i was trying to show, wether stereo did it or not months ago is not relevant, unless you mean the post a few pages back, in which he did the math with his nightlord equipment, i just showed the amount of dex these equips added by themselves, he did all the switcheroo in his NL, i showed the numbers the equips give, it's different.
about the "everything has attack" part, it's the simple fact that the more attack you have, the less effective it becomes, now, something i'd like to see is some formula for the best attack/stat distribution, i have several doubts of when attack becomes worst that %str, but for example, my DrK (nowhere near godly) benefits more from a htp, than a 12 attk MoN, i am sure this switches if i get more %stat, but these equips make sure to counter with loads of attack on their own
about the illusion of more options, sorry but no, remember what i said about hybrid being the best way? yea, the reason it was the best way, is because there were less efficient ways that people still chose to follow, i.e. the pure spear, or pure polearm drk, those still exist, albeit mentally instead of skill-enforced, so even though they are worse options, they are still options maybe not for me or you, who like efficiency, but to someone else who simply, hey, doesn't like polearms
about the "i was aware DrK used spears, thanks for backing up my point" i wasn't, since BB, spears haven't been the way to go, but polearms, back then we used spears because it was the best, now we use poles because they are the best, your suggestion of "taking the poles away" was a nerf, nothing more.
i don't get this though:
And the Sky Ski is a what? it's a spear, which became obsolete with big bang, my whole point wasn't "we used spears because they were the best" but "we used spears because if we use our best weapons (the polearms) the skill will take away from their power" once again, BB came and now we can use the better of our two types of weapons.
So your entire post is just going to be asserting what I've already said? Well, that certainly makes this easy.
this was regarding taking away all polearms, the only fast spear we would be left with, can't even get boss 30%, and as such, it's useless
Aw. Poo baby and your one speed. Too bad that couldn't possibly be remedied by making other balance adjustments.
excuse me for not having blindingly fast attacks where a 1 speed difference isn't that big (or at least we didn't, here comes impale) and you nowhere in your post suggested to "remove poles and make spears faster" you just said "poles for the arans, take it from the drK's, end.
Also, not all 1H BWs are Normal (6). And, yes, it is a moronic statement because you've shown that you missed the point entirely.
according to the ETL, which i checked before even making that comment, yes they are, or at least all of them excluding the "psb" duck tube, and pyrope, which is fast 5, and what point? the point where i am supposed to put words in your mouth? because you could have put some in mine and not argued about a lot of things both of us know, just for the sake of arguing
I've said plenty of times that I wish they made Palis use 1H axes/swords/BWs, Heroes use 2H axes/swords/BWs, and Dark Knights use spears. The entire purpose would be to ensure that all weapons had some worth/use. Axes and BWs could have their base attack/multipliers adjusted appropriately to make them on-par with swords.
you know very well it wouldn't work, first week the best paladin weapon would be known, and it would be the only thing everybody would aim for, same for hero weapon. and nice, 3 kind of weapons for heroes/pally's, and dk's stuck to spears, where it would be even more forced what to use, just saying, have you seen the aran forums in basil? "should i use an arcglaive or X?" "arcglaive" no questions, no doubts, nothing. just one weapon, better than all the others.
i do agree spears could be better, but we also have a better option available, the polearms, if anything, instead of you and me exchanging blows on what should stay and what should leave, we should question why nexon is trying to bury spears, note: bury them, not fix it by deleting poles from our ability and saying "lolfixed" while leaving us with subpar weapons.
and about the 1h, my mistake, i mistook the 130 with the 140 (which doesn't exist, this is what i saw)
Agares Bloody Hammer
1H BW - Warriors only
Set: (#18) Agares Bloody Set
Req Level: 130
Req STR: 400
Req DEX: 160
STR: +8
DEX: +4
Weapon Attack: +114
Accuracy: +50
PVP Damage: +5%
Charm EXP: +90
Equip tradeblock
Platinum Scissors of Karma
Fast(5)
8 slots
then again, was the "clouded mind" comment necessary? i swear, and i am telling you up front, what annoys me of you isn't that you insult people, but that you do on stuff i am sure even you don't believe, seriously? so because i said 140 means i couldn't have made a mistake and see a number wrong? if that's all it takes to have a clouded mind, i'd fear to see what you think a genius is.
@above: it was a typo from my part, i saw the 130 weapon as 140, which would mean it would work with lionheart set, when it doesnt.
I did it a couple months ago for Warrior, trickier part is getting them on in the first place, cause most warriors don't have ridiculous dex gear to hit 160+ total already.
Personally I'm going to continue wearing full tradeable gear on my Paladin, on any slot that can be potential'd - the Tenacious Blue Gilded Belt, and possibly Red Bear Pendant (it needs quite a bit of %str to beat a MoN) are the items I see the crafting helping me out with. Not sure whether I'll go tradeable or untradeable Face/Shoulder equips, probably depends on the recipe prices.
On my NL, I'll be going for the PvP accessory set, plus 140 Cygnus set, as funds permit... from here on out, I'm not going to spend NX/mesos on any other gear for it, I'll be pouring everything towards that goal. I understand a lot of that is gained by PvPing on the character, so hopefully NLs do okay. Once I have it, I'll do the potential business.
all i want, is to have a 135 w.attk partisian, everything else is secondary to me. i was just making the numbers up, and i missed your post on that thread then.
Von Leon
Level: 129
HP: 12,800,000
Physical Attack: 5000
Magical Attack: 2750
Knockback: 99,999,999
WDEF: 60%
MDEF: 57%
Avoid: 144
Accuracy: 225
Revive: Von Leon
Auto-Aggro
Boss
Is Von Leon really nerfed
i can kill that in 5 hits o.O but that "revive line"... maybe now we have to attack human VL so that he transforms?
Im sorry to ask but will quest ever be added here or will it be on the actual sever update?
It won't be added here because there will be no new quests when chaos comes out. :(
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