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  1. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    It seems I was mistaken on how Fatal Venom stacks. The whole point of calculating hits per second is to find out how much damage these particular combinations would do if they hit damage cap on every attack. I haven't tried to optimize hits per second for any character, not have I ever claimed to.

    All attacks use Boomerang Step, and then Edge Carnival/Muspelheim, with Assassinate if listed, and with Meso Explosion at a set timeframe. That's why hits per second is significantly lower than pure Edge Carnival which is around 20.5hits/s + 3hits/s from Fatal Venom.

    It's really difficult to understand how my numbers are different than your numbers and could be wrong if you don't tell me what your numbers are though. You might want to consider how that would impact the validity of any claim you are making before you try to make it.

    The optimal Phantom Blow hits per second is 20 + 3.

    Shadower:
    Muspelheim
    Edge Carnival
    With Sharp Eyes


    Night Lord:
    Spoiler
    With Sharp Eyes


    Blade Master:
    Spoiler
    With Sharp Eyes

  2. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Gotcha. That might be useful to do sometime.
    Ah, I understand. We were basically calculating different things. Your results look right for literal hits per second. I was counting shadow partner/mirror image hits as .7 of a hit, since they can only hit a maximum of 699999, so I was getting 17 damage cap hits per second for Phantom Blow. I got 16.5385 damage cap hits per second for Carnival Edge alone, or 18.0435 for Carnival Edge + Meso Explosion.

  3. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    I think that you can hit 1m with SP o.O

  4. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Joe, did you assume Greed's effect on Meso Explosion was additive or multiplicative?
    I assume you used additive since that would be the right way to do it but Locked apparently believed it was multiplicative so I just want to make sure you didn't think the same way.

    Here is a copy pasta of the proof I already posted on Basil:

    My range in this trial is 13586-19408. I didn't take a SS of my range at the time I tried this.
    Meso Explosion is 180%, Greed is +60%.
    If it's additive Meso Explosion would be 240%.
    If it's multiplicative Meso Explosion would be 288%.
    The damage range from additive is: 32,606.4-46,579.2 per explosion
    The damage range for multiplicative is: 39,127.7-55,895.0 per explosion
    I have 36.5% PDR Ignore, 15% from nebulite, 15% from Monster Book and 6.5% from Ambition.
    Snails have 10% PDR and after factoring my PDR Ignore it results in: 6.35% Effective PDR.
    After considering PDR and rounding the new possible damage ranges are:
    Additive: 30,536-43,621
    Multiplicative: 36,643-52,346
    Spoiler

    Spoiler

    As you can see in the first picture I was able to hit 31,847 and 33,924 both of which are both fairly below the lowest possible damage if Greed was multiplicative.
    In the second picture I was able to hit 34,470 which is again below the lowest possible damage if Greed was multiplicative.
    There was no damage done that was below 30,536.
    These screenshots also serve as proof that Meso Explosion does in-fact hit critical damage but it doesn't light up red as with normal attacks.
    This is obvious from the hit where my Meso Explosion did almost 62k even though that's outside both range zones.

  5. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    While somewhat on the topic, do you/does anyone know if Meso Explosion criticals are affected by +critical hit% rate, or +min/max% critical damage? I figured they would, but seeing as how they don't show up as critical numbers I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they're not.

  6. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    I see no reason as to why it wouldn't. The critical hits not having the critical effect should simply be a graphic thing and that's it.
    Although I have no concrete proof I did notice more hits being high numbers with Meso Explosion when my decent SE was on than when it isn't, then again the plural of anecdote isn't data so it really isn't much of a proof.

  7. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    I've been using multiplicative. I'll adjust this soon.

    Shadower:
    Muspelheim
    Edge Carnival
    With Sharp Eyes

  8. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    The way criticals seem to work is really frustrating for testing, if you hit a critical in say the first line of Edge Carnival, the 3rd, 5th and so on will always crit with the same exact damage. ~7:16 for a demonstration, I randomly jumped to this but I'm sure there are more. It looks like ME follows the same pattern, at least according to this video anyway.

  9. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    I agree, it is really annoying. Although it explains the second picture I put up there where two of my criticals where the exact same damage. I was a bit intrigued by the odds of two pairs of attacks being the exact same. Still though without Sharp Eyes on I would barely see any of those high numbers.

  10. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Made an update to Phantoms. Missed the change to Tempest of Cards where damage was increased to 400% and mobs was decreased to 8. Small increase to 2~8. Decrease for 9 & 10 since ToC can't hit those anymore. 11 & 12 removed.

  11. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    An update correcting Combo Attack's damage to be additive with criticals.
    Phantom:
    Rapid Fire/Twilight
    Twilight + Pickpocket + Meso Explosion

    Ultimate Drive
    Ultimate Drive + Pickpocket + Meso Explosion

    With SE

  12. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Just curious: For the "Rapid Fire / Twilight" spoilers, what 4th job skill is Phantom using for the 2+ target calculations? I believe you said you were using Phatom Charge -> Twilight as the spamming combo, so RF is useless.

    I assume self-cast SE would be the biggest boost (~17-18%), and something like Pirate Style (+10% damage) when either partied with someone with SE or using Decent SE.

  13. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    It currently doesn't use anything. SE would be the biggest boost, but I have a table for that already. You could just multiply the damage by 1.1x for Pirate Style's rough amount, I believe.

  14. GLADIGATORS
    IGN: Overburnd
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 210
    Job: Cannoneer
    Guild: Contagious
    usa

    Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Viperisation would probably be better than pirate style since it's more damage and i don't think the 30% status/ele resistance is passive.

  15. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Good to know, thanks! I was mainly just double checking that it did not already include a certain buff.

    From the skill tables, it looks like everything but the +15% atk on Vipirsition is passive. As far as I can tell, everything about Pirate Style is active since it doesn't contain the phrase "Passive Effect -- " anywhere, but I don't have any first (or second) hand knowledge.

    Either way, thanks for pointing it out since these tables are strictly DPS and don't care about silly things like ele/status resistance or stance -- and +15% Vipersition > +10% Pirate Style.

  16. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Stance is meaningless to a Phantom anyways since they cannot be hit during Twilight unless it's a guaranteed hit attack.

  17. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Interesting. Are Phantom Charge & Twilight the only Phantom skills with iFrames, or are there others? (I'm assuming PC has it since it's a rush move.)

  18. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    They don't have 100% iframes but they have some iframes. Either that or the latency pineappleed that up.

  19. Won't Be Coming Back
    (Banned from this thread)
    Straight Male

    Server: Windia
    Level: 200
    Job: Blade Master
    usa

    Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)


    Danny, or Joe, assuming a phantom and DB hit max 100% of the time, 700k MI from DB and 1m from phantoms FA, which would be stronger?
    Assume fastest weapons, buffs besides booster don't matter. I'm not looking for raw %ages, I'm pretty much trying to incorporate damage/min into this.

    From what I got if DB's do 21.39 attacks/sec that's 10.7m from phantom blow + 7.49m from MI, putting DB's at 18.19.
    For phantom it'd be a straight up 8.76 x 2 (FA) = 17.52m/sec. Assume FA is 100% due to 100% crit.

    Would dual blades come out on top, speed/hit based?
    Didn't bother to even add venom for the DB.

    Probably messed up somewhere.
    I'm talking theory here, cause I'm 100% sure a ranged phantom would handle bosses better than a DB as well.
    Capping is so much easier on phantoms as well (Until DB revamp, then extremely easy), but that's not really a problem.

  20. Default Re: Thief %/s (Justice Shadower, Night Lord, Blade Master, and Phantom)




    There's the DB for you.

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