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  1. Default Revamp Potential?


    (I consider this idea to be secondary to Classic Maplestory)

    Potentials are a love them or hate them sort of mechanic but what if the system was changed? Anything from nerfing the value of cubes (by putting in more junk lines) to adding back more unique abilities (status effects and skills type potentials) to total removal of cubes but keeping the potentials? What about bringing back the one where if someones character is getting pummeled it makes you feel happy?

    How might the game look if gear could have potential but there were no cubes?
    Or if the only way to reset potential was through crafting/ fusion?

  2. Brick Male
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    whya re you still allowed to post lmao

  3. Donator Straight Male
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    let me put an actual interesting (old) idea. cubes now cube a specific line only instead of all 3.

  4. Lead Ball Male
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    It would be similar to old times, i don't see much without cubes, we don't have flames or 25stars so we would have the basic stuff(scrolls and stars that are now in the game), and why even make harder to get good lines? Do you even play the game? The cubes need less junk lines so you get easyer your potential, or maybe make a preference by the class of your equip, there's no logic behind nerfing the chance of good pots, there are already a lot of eqps with good potentials, making em harder to get won't solve your tigger with the powercreep maple is in now.

    There are solutions, but so far nexon just removed 2 lines because they did in the status window as well, maybe in less than 1 year they could change the junk lines, but who knows.

  5. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Technically speaking, I would say that the potential feature is also a victim. When potentials first appeared there were a lot of lines that had nothing to do with damage. Things like making weird faces and whatnot. (thus more balanced) Maybe they did not directly add to a characters power but were kind of "just for fun" or encouraging more variety among players. However those times did not last and soon potentials would be twisted into yet another tool for micro transactions. It is a tragic fate but now they are nothing more than all about damage, damage and more damage. In Nexons defense, adjustments like these are what some players might have wanted but potential was not always the creature that it has been changed into.

    Even that much is pretty open to interpretation though. More damage is not automatically bad, simply that it depends on what is the goal?

    To take it to the extreme, what about for a high price using a cube allows the player to pick a potential of their choice?
    Last edited by Pikamemnon; 2018-01-15 at 05:33 PM.

  6. Lead Ball Male
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Cubes were always micro transactions tools, and what you mean more balanced having more trash lines(it's the exact oposite)? You seens so desperate to not have a big powercreep, but it's already too late, there's no way to change the game's powercreep without heavily damaging everything, and i highly doubt they would considering to change with all the whales at KMS, not much reason to change the powercreep if it gives nexon money, cubes should be something that had a lot more chance to get good stuff, like less trash lines and maybe other things that could easily be added(like cubing one line at time), that way it wouldn't be so pay2win and you could actually get good stuff with maybe 100k nx.

    I wouldn't say damage is bad, it's sorta natural to MMOs that goes too long , it happens in storyes too(look at Naruto and Dragon Ball for exemple), it will just grow since it's a bit hard to get new stuff without making it stronger than the things that already exist.

  7. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Indeed, Cubes were like this from the beginning but potential wasn't. Early potential was almost harmless and had much smaller power boosts with the "strongest" lines (those with %) being rare or uncommon. It could have a part in micro transactions but not an overwhelming one. The lower damage cap probably helped.

    Its not to say that Maple cannot become a game that focuses on damage but rather we are getting into parts that are almost entirely subjective or based on opinion. Maplestory could in theory, make a very good damage centered game but is that a game that people are going to want to play? Well the answer would depend on who is being asked. Would more people want to play Maple if its focus was something else? Again there are likely to be many different responses.

    Is it wrong to cater the game to suite the top 1% - 10% of paying players and what they may want?
    Spoiler

  8. Orbital Bee Cannon
    IGN: SaptaZapta
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    I have met many maplers over the past 9 years of playing. People who play to socialize, people who play dress-up, people who play for quests, and people who play for damage. I have never seen or heard of any Mapler cubing their gear with a thought other than "I want to get stronger".
    It's not just the 1% or 10% who can afford to get strong enough to tackle the top bosses. Every single player who cares about potential at all, wants the damage-boosting lines.
    I honestly don't understand who you think would be happy with "we'll leave potential in the game but make it cost more rerolls to get stronger." (Except maybe Nexon's accountants)

  9. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Yeah, ok this made me laugh. I mean what you're saying is totally true but the thing is that without the garbage lines, potential is game breaking. It may sound funny in the current world to try and balance a mechanic like potential but if its not managed then the feature can add to the Pay2win/ power creep bad stuff. Um to rephrase that, in the "best" Free2play games anything like buying direct power is usually frowned upon. Which is similar to how a game would normally want to avoid introducing power creep. Alright so with Maplestory it was forced to embrace those "negative" things and now it is in a different and strange place from where it started from. Or that is to say, with the easier it is to get the power through the Nx cubes then the deeper Maple moves into the Pay2win.

    Bear with me though because what is really mind blowing is that we cant necessarily call this direction "bad". Even if some players cry foul and as was pointed out, if Nexon is making bank from it and enough big spending players like the system as is then in a way, the game is "working as intended."

    A better example is if Maple is going to go the full Pay2win route then why keep the gamble element at all? At least with the garbage lines included then potential had the appearance of challenge. Albeit one based on money. (which is still pretty bad but that depends on preference) I guess it comes down to what one person likes someone else may dislike.

    TL DR: With garbage lines, potential is more "balanced". Hence it is only a small addition to the game.

    On the other hand, with the better or more powerful that the cubes are then the more broken it is. (Pay2win) Hence potential becomes a main part of the game and the game itself seems like more of an afterthought when combined with other changes. (such as damage cap adjustments)

    But it still depends on who is being asked because technically it is not a problem while also being a huge problem for others. There are advantages and drawbacks with either approach.

    In short, Nexon might have made potential too tempting and too important.
    Last edited by Pikamemnon; 2018-01-17 at 06:52 PM.

  10. Lead Ball Male
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Look, they keep the gambling because it's profitable, there's no reason to make just a straight up powercreep since it's a lot quicker to burn and not as expensive as trying to get the perfect 27/30/30% stat lines in equips with all the RNG we currently have, just look at loot boxes in overwatch, in the end it's similar, all lucky, but mostly you will use a lot to get the best stuff, all so the company gains more, hardly anyone prefers the cubes now vs a ideal one where you don't have trash lines or just of oposite class of your eqps.

    Again, it doesn't matter what you say, what made potentials not OP in Big Bang was how rare was to get a cube(only nx) and how many eqps with good lines there was, compared with today where:

    - we have Occult cubes(up to epic), Master cubes(up to unique) and Master Craftman cubes(up to legendary), without counting the nx ones(that are better and now you can keep potentials when reseting) there's 3 and master cube comes quite frequently, occults as well, so it's far easyer to get those god lines of 21%stat unique or even 15/18 that were the endgoal until legendary potentials came.

    - a lot more equips that have those pro lines that used to be super hard, the rng is almost the same as Big Bang, yet people are much powerfull due to a lot of eqps that got made and are re-sold to others making any made item worth for a longer than you expect.

    Having more lines that are trash isn't balance, for you the weaker the people are the more balanced the game is? This doesn't make sense, pay2win is if someone can pay and get super stronger while others will take over 100 times to get that same strenght, which is the case, trash lines just make it more expensive and annyoing, making it harder to get power doesn't make it less pay2win since you can still buy and power through the game's content and bosses.

    I do agree on the too important, but you have to remember we don't have 25star and flames which make it far more than it's actually is in the ''main'' game(since most maplers are in korea, it's basically the main place for changes), in KMS it's more like 35% of importance, while here is more around 60%+, maybe 80%.

    ---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------

    Can't edit again, some gramar mistakes, but i guess you undurstand my point.

  11. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Well said and I see your point. I did not mean that the garbage lines should be added, I only meant that the garbage effects were one way of trying to keep potential balanced. If ways to strengthen potential are being considered then it can also help to think about methods to weaken it as well. (fair is fair)

    For example if we wanted to buff cubes to the max, there could be a new item called "God mode cubes". The player names their price and gains that much power in game. It would be super broken and Pay2win but at a minimum would take gambling out of the equation.

    Conversely if we wanted to nerf cubes as much as possible then the answer would be to remove them. However since they are already ingrained into the game and people have spent $, its probably a little too late to try this. Maybe it could work on a new server or something?

    Cubes are more than likely not going to be good things but maybe someday in the distant future they could be.

    There is still a lot of hope for potential though and on its own, I believe the system has an impressive amount of possibilities.
    Last edited by Pikamemnon; 2018-01-18 at 11:06 AM.

  12. Orbital Bee Cannon
    IGN: SaptaZapta
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    What you don't seem to understand is that adding junk lines does not weaken potential. It just makes it more expensive.
    If you want to weaken potential you have to do things like remove Legendary rank, or make all potential lines have smaller numbers (e.g., instead of 6% it'll be 3% at Epic), or make potential add up in a non-linear fashion that makes for faster diminishing returns.
    As long as the maximum potential one can get is untouched, adding junk lines or other hurdles doesn't make things any more "balanced".

    Or you could leave potential as it is, but make it pointless to go beyond a certain level.
    The reason potential was harmless at first is because the damage cap was low. You could reach it with just a few 3% and 6% lines on your gear, which you could get by hunting for monster-dropped equipment, or crafting your own. There was no need to cube for anything higher, because it would just be wasted.
    When damage cap went from 1m to 50m, and monsters became stronger, that's when p2w took off. It became impossible to get anywhere 50m lines without cubing all your gear to Unique with at least 2 useful lines.

    However, neither weakening potential nor lowering damage cap would be acceptable to today's players, so this whole discussion is meaningless. The power creep might be possible to slow down, but it can never be reversed.

    The only "solution" to potential is the one Nexon is actually working towards, which is making its full power more accessible to non-paying players.

  13. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Poor choice of words on my part, the garbage lines are to make the cubes "less attractive" ergo to weaken them. Almost the same difference, right? I was trying to weaken the cubes, not potential.

    The idea here is to try and either strengthen or weaken potential. (I was serious about the God mode cubes by the way)
    I agree that the right damage cap would be an excellent answer but as we know, the game has already gone in a different direction.

    "Solving" potential is not the goal, it is only to discuss ideas about making potential and cubes better or worse for the sake of the game.

  14. Orbital Bee Cannon
    IGN: SaptaZapta
    Server: Kradia
    Level: 275
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Making cubes "less attractive" won't help because there is no alternative.
    If cubes are half as good, or 1/10th as good, people will still have to use them if they want to get stronger.
    KMS' cubes are worse than ours, with lower rank-up rates, and they still have people paying whatever it takes to get perfect potential on every item.
    Worse cubes just lead to a smaller (relative) elite who manager to get "the best" potential. That's not balance. It's quite the opposite.

  15. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    The alternative is to play the game and level up.
    Getting stronger and getting better potentials is not the same thing although I can see why it can look that way. It simply highlights something game breaking when most everyone feels like they must have godly potentials to be any good.

    When potential was just getting released it was not very attractive or rather, it was not overwhelming compared to other boosts. (that is why it was ok) The combination of things that kept it in check worked together to limit how much Pay2win could be involved. Without those many limiting factors, this particular system is corrupted to its core. We can debate the precise level of corruption but there is no escape from an infinite amount of Pay2win.

    Even so, it is not an issue that can be classified as "bad." Certain players gain extra benefits, Nexon gets paid, free players get to keep playing and for better or worse, this is how Maple has evolved.

  16. Orbital Bee Cannon
    IGN: SaptaZapta
    Server: Kradia
    Level: 275
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Do you even play Maplestory now?
    Leveling up is nowhere near an alternative to potential. If you don't cube your gear you very quickly (level 140 or so) reach the point where you can't level up any more because you can't kill enemies around your level in a reasonable amount of time. This is true even in Reboot, where they get a free 1% damage boost for every 2 levels. You can't level up, you can't do quests that require killing enemies, you can't "play the game".

    And with this, I am out of this discussion. It's apparent you don't know what you're talking about.

  17. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    Well I never said it was a "good" alternative. That is simply the nature of the Maplestory that still officially exists. People play it until they dont want to anymore. Each players mileage may vary. Why do you think I threw so much support onto the Pre Big bang wagon when I did?

    There's no need to quote technical stuff (like potential tiers, Link skills, etc) because I do already have some awareness of those things.

    It was not my intention to sound snarky in the last reply. That is just really what players did in the Pre Big bang era. If someone could not get the best gear (or even gear of the same level) back in those times, the thing to do was "grind it out".
    Last edited by Pikamemnon; 2018-02-23 at 08:03 AM.

  18. Lead Ball Male
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    You reminds of my Mom, she keeps going in arguments to convice me or my sister about something, but in the end she usually goes full circle and it's obvious what she want and she don't even have much logic or fundation at times, it's your case, you're trying to change current's maple way of power just so it get closer to pre-bb, even in pre-bb people did gear, it was just so slow that people automatically had better gear when they got certain level, it's not like people would always see new eqps.

    You need to actually know what you are talking about else you will just be annyoing with your limited point of view and closed mind to actually look what we are talking about, PLAY THE GAME, else you will come with weird ideas and just worst ones like the god potential which just make the game with even more powercreep making the exact oposite which was balance things out, seens you saw the potential and thought it could maybe go the way you wanted to pre-bb, without knowing the game is 10x more solo than before, with a lot of things that incentivate you to go solo bosses, grinding and so on, before people actually went in party, today max is mules.

    Pre-bb wasn't just about the less pay2win and less powercreep, there was the comunity and how people did things together, but that doesn't mean changing cubes couldn't be good, it's just not what will happen in KMS, your idea to sell powercreep right away is also bad since nexon won't get as much money, besides that you will stop playing earlyer since you did most of the game relative quick.

    I will also get out of this dicussion, what you got wrong been already said, maybe read with more caution.

  19. Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    You guys really like to keep me on my toes, huh?

    I think the way I would put it is that people should try the current game before passing judgement one way or the other.

    My policy toward Maplestory is that it is best enjoyed in small servings. Which means that I play the game when I want and I don't play when I dont want to . It has been ages since I played "for realz". I think Maple is just as much fun when its used for messing around as it is for when a player is trying to accomplish a goal.

    Getting back to potential, I think it would help if "garbage lines" was clarified. I used the modern way of Maplestory to lump all of these into one thing but actually the non damage lines had their own value. Off of the top of my head there was Hp/ Mp leech per hit, Defense increase, freezing mobs, stunning mobs, poison and probably some more. The point is that one persons garbage can be another persons treasure. Once upon a time players could collect unique potential gear just for fun or to try specialized builds. When the strategy morphed into "everything is about damage" small touches and details that appealed to certain players got left behind. It is true that damage output is a big deal but it is folly to assume the other aspects are useless.

    Now there are at least 3 versions of potential that we are talking about here. 1)Pre BB, 2)After BB and 3)Current Maple. To say that early potential was better is an understatement. Just think about that for a moment, even though the damage effects got stronger, the newest version of potential is worse than what is was before. The reason being because other parts of the game were changed to better serve the Pay2win. So in a discussion about making potential the best kind of potential it can be then one possible solution is clear. Which is to try and make it like it was before or after the Big bang. Nexons willingness to go along with a proposal like this is an entirely different matter.

    Looking at it from another angle, some players like the current system. For them the God mode cube would be a very good item. I don't agree with taking the game in the direction of Pay2win but if it is going to go that path anyway then it might as well do Pay2win right!

    All I'm going to say about cubes is, they promote bad things and leave it at that. Nexon made their bed with the cubes so now it is time to go lie down with them.

    The question is not a matter of Old Maple vs New Maple, it is of a (borderline) rip off vs something that is a good deal. The type of which was probably a contributing factor to why some players quit. In any case, if a person is wondering what kind of potential system is the best one then I would respond that the one from before or after Big bang is easily 100x better than the current system. The lines are a little bit weaker than today but there was much more variety and the rest of the game complimented it in far better ways. (the balance was good) At least in my opinion, others may think differently.

    Power creep is similar to a measure of several things such as damage dealing ability, mob toughness and end game meta. Even if we don't consider current Maplestory to be "bad" lets just say that some players have a preference of Pre Big bang for a reason.

    It is humorous that the topic of potential started revolving around Classic Maplestory but I do not believe this was a coincidence. If a revamp ever were to come up on the horizon then I think Nexon might want to try looking to the past for inspiration. Or not, either way works.

    Liking Classic Maple does not mean that a person must despise New Maple. I cannot fathom where such a concept originated. To summarize, Cubes of today are toxic beyond belief but the game is still sort of ok if a person is mostly in it for the fun. Looking on the bright side, in 2018 Maplestory is still available to play but the thing is that you just might not enjoy it, is all.

    Congratulations everyone, I guess?

    ???????
    Last edited by Pikamemnon; 2018-01-20 at 09:36 AM.

  20. Lead Ball Male
    IGN: Ivangoldes
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    Default Re: Revamp Potential?


    I sayed i would stay out, but i wanna discuss a bit more

    That seens confusing, because unique potentials were REALLY hard in comparison to today to get, you say for fun, but did you get any unique item a bit after big bang came out? For what reason aside from damage would you get unique pot? There's acomplishment, but normaly people wouldn't do just for that, and these trash lines were almost never good, MAYBEEEEE some were good but that's back then when people were so weak that they needed to hit multiple times to kill, today it's so fast that it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect bosses so why even use it, the hp and mp ones are trash, it's barely any recover even back then, defense is same thing, too little defense that barely make a diference compared to a stat line.

    Again, you have to play the game to actually make a good argument, this is something years ago made a little diference if at all, maybe you liked, but they aren't really usefull, maybe the 10%chance to make a face expression when attacked, but that's opiniable, i liked a bit, but today isn't worth anymore.

    God potential can work, no idea when nexon will make something like that, but nexon will never make a pay2win box to buy in cash shop to get 10m rang in one day, there's no reason to do that unless if it's like you who wanna get all the power instantly by buying, it's not good for the game since people will instantly get to the endgame and will stop playing a lot sooner, besides that it would be too expensive and not much would buy compared to cubes that people don't measure how much they will actually use of $$ or used to get such progress, making more profit for nexon, your idea isn't really profitable, ideailly they make the player adicted to cubes and buy every month instead in one month buy all the progress and stop playing in less than 6months, while before he plays filling the server and uusing more money since cubes have such a bad rng to get perfect lines.

    More trash lines is only balance for nexon's pocket, since they make harder to get good lines, people only cared for the trash lines since they mostly wouldn't get the actually good lines that were rare to get more than 1, potential barely changed since it started, what changed was the max rank and what cubes you use to reset, i don't get your idea of ''potential was better after big bang'', unless you mean the old cubes which is diferent, then you just get your point of view who isn't a hardcore mapler who would sufer to get good lines, since you seens mostly casual when you were around Big Bang, you don't know how annyoing it was to tier up potentials and even today to get the actually pro lines.

    I guess there's not much pre-bb in this potential, but just feels like you want to be like pre-bb instead to something actually new and better for players, the ones who play this game, not nexon to get more money.

    Also what's with this Dora image and congratulations?

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