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  1. Harrisonized

    Default The True Range of Fire Demon

    Fire Demon is widely accepted as having a larger range than Explosion. However, my data proves otherwise.

    According to Fiel's Skill Tables (and Skill Tables everywhere else), Fire Demon has 300% range. I think this is misleading, because it makes Explosion, which has 200% range seem a lot shorter, when really, Explosion has a farther range than Fire Demon.

    Explosion has 200% range. Notice I can still hit both when standing on one side.

    When using Fire Demon from one side of the two Leps, if Fire Demon's range is better than Explosion's, I should be able to hit both. However, I find that I cannot hit both Leps with Fire Demon.

    When standing on one side of the Lep, I hit the one closest to me.

    When standing on top of the lep, I hit the one farther from me.

    Thus, Fire Demon has a smaller range than Explosion. It's interesting how the skill has been out for so long and yet it is still widely believed today to have a larger range than Explosion.

    I'm just talking about range (look at the title, hint, hint), not how the skill is used!
    Last edited by Harrisonized; 2008-09-09 at 11:24 PM. Reason: I screwed up.

  2. Default

    Hmmmm, 2 things:

    - Explosion has a 400% range, 200% on each side, not 100% :)
    - Fire Deamon has excactly the same range as Boomerang Step - 300%

  3. Harrisonized


    Explosion is 100% range on each side.

    You can tell because teleport is 150 distance points. When you teleport, you move 150 distance points. You take off 20 (for your character) when disappearing from one side, and you take off another 20 (for your cahracter) when reappearing from the other side. That means you'll move a total of 110 distance points with teleport. That lands you just right in the middle of the outer bound of explosion.

    Another way to test this is when you have a low leveled explosion, it will be extremely evident. It tells you 110% range, but it gives you 10% on each side. Because of that, you KNOW that the range on each side is the skill - 100%. The 100% accounts for yourself. (IDK why they note the character as 100% when they should note the character as 20% for accuracy.)

    And no... BStep doesn't have 300% range unless it says so on the skill itself. If you read 300% range from a skill table, you can't use that as a basis for the range. Explosion actually does say 200% range on its skill description.

    Edit for clarity. When a skill table says 300% range, it means 200 distance. 100% range is used to account for your character.
    Last edited by Harrisonized; 2008-09-09 at 08:24 AM.

  4. Default

    Uhm no, that's not correct...

    - Maple has a resolution of 800(Wide) x 600(Height)
    - When you stand in the middle of your screen there are 400 pixels left AND right of you.
    - Maxed Explosion/Ice Strike has a range of 200 pixels left AND right of you.
    - 4th job Ultimates have a range of 400 pixels left AND right of you (400+400=800 = whole screen).

  5. Harrisonized


    Distance isn't calculated as Pixels. Maple uses its own distance system. Even gravity is involved when calculating distance. For example, teleport goes down farther than it goes up.
    I already talked about Explosion and Ice Strike's range. It's not 200 on each side. I'll say it again. It's not 200 on each side. The reasoning behind that is that in low levels of explosion, it tells you 110% range, when it's actually 10% on each side. You have to subtract 100% to account for yourself.

    Fourth job Ultimates again, don't have 400% range. It's simply not on the skill description. Fourth Job Ultimates hit 300 distance points on each side of you. The 100% again, is to account for your own character. 400% signifies that its 300 distance points on either side of you, which is why it's entered in the skill tables that way. Now you know its 300 distance points, because Explosion covers about 2/3rd of the screen. 200 distance points covering 2/3rd of the screen means that the screen is calculated as 300 distance points.

    I edited my first post for clarity.
    Last edited by Harrisonized; 2008-09-09 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Edit?

  6. Default

    Harrison Imma just say some crap and ignore what you are actually saying.
    Just like everyone else

    But really...
    YA for range testing!
    Now tell me about my SR.

  7. Default

    Ice/Fire demon has a further in-front-of-you range than explosion/ice strike. Behind, above, and below, explosion/ice strike wins. You don't need to get complicated with numbers to know that. The demon is the same range as all your "ranged" spells (magic claw, bolt, fire arrow, compo, cold beam, paralyze, etc). All those spells will hit near the edge of your screen assuming your character is standing in the center.

    I'd like to see explosion/ice strike hit pap's first form when he's pinned in the corner from the red circle. Because ice/fire demon certainly can.

    Last edited by butterfλi; 2008-09-09 at 04:13 PM.

  8. Default

    Did anyone really ever say fire demon's range was bigger than explosion's? Skill descriptions are usually wrong anyways, so you can't trust them. Also, fire demon has much better range upwards than downwards, from where you're standing.

  9. Default

    Range of Explosion

    Range of Fire Demon

    Looking at where your standing in your picture, it would not be difficult to superimpose my pink boxes on your picture. It's quite simple to see that you are out of range for your first shot on the Leprechaun with Fire Demon. Since the circle coming off of Fire Demon is quite large and is drawn over your character, it's easy to assume that Fire Demon's range is smaller than it really is.

    Maplestory defines pixels as the distance by creating two points - one to the left and above you, and one to the bottom and to the right of you - to create a box. The reason why Teleport is different up and downwards is because it is not dependent on a box, but rather a simple "distance" value marked in the WZ files. This distance value is then reinterpreted based upon which way you are teleporting. Gravity is not an issue when calculating the two (x, y) coordinates defined in the WZ files.

    Explosion has a box that is sized 400 x 300 (200 to the left and right, 150 top and bottom - your character in the center). Since Maplestory likes to use the X range to one side of your character, this is why it says "200% range" for Explosion. However, since the X range for Fire Demon for one side of the character is 300% range, thus it's defined so in the Fourth Job Skill Tables.

    If you just want to go by which skill has a larger AoE, then Explosion wins hands down.

    Explosion's AoE = 400 pixels * 300 pixels = 120,000 pixels
    Fire Demon's AoE = 300 pixels * 100 pixels = 30,000 pixels

    If you'd like to see the WZ files for reference, I can supply them.

  10. Default

    I'd find this funny if it weren't so pathetic.

    Anyways. Maybe I'm interpreting the data wrong, but the Demon's Ranges are listed as
    lt.x -300
    lt.y -100
    rb.x -15
    rb.y 0

    Thus, would it not start 15 pixels in front of the centre of your character, instead of 15 pixels behind (what your image shows), assuming that the centre of your character is where the ranges are all respective of? This would account for the discrepency that Harrisonized finds.

    Something like...


  11. Default

    i realized something after making my previous post.

    if harrisonized is saying that explosion's total range is bigger than fire demon, then yes.


    however, the fact the fire demon's range is smaller is somewhat... insignificant because both skills are unique for their own thing. fire demon can "stun" monsters in far front of you, but explosion can attack above, below, and behind you. though not many f/p use explosion in the 4th job.

  12. Default

    So you're saying you have to literally be standing on top of the monster to hit it with low level Ice Strike?
    That's "10% range" for you.

    Distance is in pixels. Think about it. Ultimates have 400 horizontal and 300 vertical range on both sides. That makes a 800x600 hitbox. What's Maple's resolution? 800x600.

  13. Default

    10% range is 1/2 the width of the character according to what you said, and I'm pretty sure low level Explosion is a lot better than that, as you don't have to literally stand on a monster to hit it.

    It just seems bad because 110% is still not very good.

  14. Harrisonized


    Yes, that's what I'm saying. Fire Demon has better range than Explosion. I am saying this because every time someone suggests a skill build, they use "Fire Demon has a larger range than Explosion, so Lv 7 will help you mist in your lower levels." It annoys me to see this misconception.

    And although you are right about the different uses of the skill, I've heard this from people. Which one is the better finisher when misting, Fire Demon or Explosion? and I would hear "Fire Demon, because it's got a larger range."

    In no way am I talking about it's useage in the game.

    Yes. That's pretty much what I have observed. Otherwise, Explosions range wouldn't even double itself from Lv 1 to maxed, and we all know that's not the case.

    When drawing random boxes on my desktop, I find that I can always pull my mouse horizontally left to form a straight line. And Maple can probably calculate it by having the same X coordinate but two different Y coordinates. So why does Teleport move more down than up? (Which, by the way, pretty much follows the same curve as Explosion, moving more down than up.)
    And this:
    Teleport distance cracked!
    Specifically, posts 9, 11, and 15.
    Last edited by Harrisonized; 2008-09-09 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost Please.

  15. ☮♫♥ Gay Male
    IGN: FrozNlite
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 200
    Job: F/P ArchMage
    Guild: Brazzers
    Alliance: Heroes


    No reason to use Explosion when the same desired results from Explosion can be done by simply turning around and casting Fire Demon behind you. And while that only covers the horizontal plane, vertical usually isn't of concern unless you're training, and considering Meteor Shower is Explosion range x 2....yea, I think that's enough to prove the obvious of why Explosion isn't used in 4th job.

    By the way Harrisonized, I tested the ranges myself with Thanatos down in Ludi by slowing them and sealing. Then I teleported back and continuously cast Fire Demon until it just hit them, which I followed with an immediate Explosion. The KB from Fire Demon reset the Thanatos back in the same place it was before it slightly moved in the time between the FD and Explosion casts.

    The result? Fire Demon hit easily, Explosion didn't come close. Test this out for yourself because it's hard to explain without a video, and I'm way too busy to do that now. But Fire Demon's horizontal range is definitely greater than that of Explosion's, even though the area covered by Explosion is far greater than that of Fire Demon.

  16. Default

    If you want mist+mob finisher combo, I'd have to say that fire demon is the way to go. Explosion casts like 2 or 3 times slower than fire demon. The only reason I see FP use explosion is to make use of its awesome vertical ranges (downwards). Upwards, fire demon hits a little higher than your character's head so in some cracks, fire demon is more preferred than explosion as well.

    I think casting fire demon, then turn around and cast fire demon again to hit behind you is faster than using one explosion to hit both front and back and the same.

  17. Harrisonized


    Eh, didn't I prove in the screenshots in the first post that Explosion hits further horizontally than Explosion?
    Explosion casts 42 times in a minute with a fast (4) staff. I don't know how fast Fire Demon casts, but it would have to be faster than 84 to be 'faster' than Explosion.

    And a bit off topic: I just found out that "Fiel" is no longer censored on Sleepywood. O.o
    Last edited by Harrisonized; 2008-09-09 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost Please.

  18. Flatpanel TV
    IGN: HA!
    Server: HA!!
    Level: I'm
    Job: plagiarizing
    Guild: overused
    Alliance: internet memes!!1!


    And yet Fiel and others have posts to the contrary....

    eh, CWK is still a glitchy area. (The Leps are one such example) That could be a bug no one found yet.

  19. Harrisonized


    I edited first post again. Sorry for my misconceptions about distance points. Dumping the distance point part completely now makes my first post make sense.



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