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  1. Default Free will doesn't exist

    ... Or so the articles I've read have been insisting.

    Some seem relatively convincing (i.e. the one where all particles are in motion and if you could somehow record all of every single one of their magnitudes and directions and interactions, interpret their effects and print it in legible comprehensible form, you would effectively have a working prophecy of the future).

    Others seem to be proving an entirely different point (the decision you make apparently is stimulated by activity in the brain seven seconds before the decision).

    In any case, I don't know why at the moment but I feel like something's amiss. The particle one makes perfect sense, and there would obviously be no free will if everything has already be plotted out in molecular form, but the thought feels incredibly jarring in my mind. It's the same sort of feeling I get when I see a circular argument. (not saying it's a circular argument)

    Thoughts on the matter? Is there any particular reason why you believe free will does/doesn't exist?

  2. Nuclear testing facility Straight Male
    IGN: VerrKol
    Server: Zenith
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    Default Re: Free will doesn't exist

    The "particle one" has been around since the time of Sir Isaac Newton, but was utterly destroyed with an understanding of quantum physics. Many subatomic particle movements are completely random and unpredictable. Not to mention that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that you cannot know both the place and movement at the same time. This uncertainty means that any predictions would be the most likely outcomes of possible events.

    There are some thought experiments with general relativity (see Putnam's argument concerning Minkowski space-time) that indicate that "predicting" the future through exploiting relativistic timelines and theoretical speed of light communication. In simple terms, it may be possible to learn what "will" happen from a timeline where it "already happened". Sorry if that didn't make a lot of sense, it's very difficult to describe since English doesn't really have a tense that describes relativistic time.

    I have no idea what this 7 sec brain thing is.

    In other words, there is no scientific way to predict the future currently and at least some evidence that it never can be.

    That said, I think you are neglecting an important aspect of the question. Does "predicting" the future negate free will? Not necessarily. Knowledge of the future doesn't necessarily change the idea that people chose their actions; it only complicates the system of analysis that determines actions.

  3. Deluxe Refrigerator
    IGN: MrTouchnGo
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    Default Re: Free will doesn't exist

    Knowing what will happen doesn't destroy free will.

    Let's say I know my brother will throw a rock through the window. Does that mean my brother is being forced the throw the rock through the window? No, it only means that I know that my brother will choose to throw the rock through the window. He still has the choice; I simply know which option he will choose. Free will is all about choices.

  4. Default Re: Free will doesn't exist

    I'm pretty sure seeing the future is impossible as the mere fact of seeing the future changes it and thus the future you are seeing would change and so on or you could just see a possible future but that will never happen in your future (in other words the future of a parallel universe).

  5. Won't Be Coming Back Straight Male

    IGN: Promothian
    Server: Siel
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    Default Re: Free will doesn't exist

    I think the two things are just different points of view.
    free will states that we are in control of our actions.
    determinism states that all of our actions are beyond your control.

    however since we cannot see past our own actions it's all bullpomegranate and doesn't really matter at the end of the day. or rather the matrix summed it up best.

    The Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand.
    Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?
    The Oracle: No, you've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.

    all in all it's quite obvious there is no free will but since we cannot see the future (and even if we did it was predetermined that we would therefore we're not seeing the actual future) it doesn't matter.

    now then enjoy the paradoxical loops that eventually follow.

  6. Default Re: Free will doesn't exist

    I've seen the future in my dreams a number of times. When i finally arrive at that place in time, it is sudden and recognizable deja vu.

    The problem being, when i see these things in my dream, they make little to no sense. I'm usually in a place i don't recognize with people i don't recognize doing things i didn't think i'd be doing. Then a few months or years later, boom! There i am. It's weird going through life with my view of life, knowing that whatever decision i make is the one i was always going to make.

  7. Default Re: Free will doesn't exist

    To have a truly free will, you would have to be able to make every choice you come across, which is not possible, particularly when it comes to your body not responding to your mind (disease and death). If you could will yourself out of death, nobody would die, until the person consciously chose to do so. What we have right now is a facade of free will at best; until one person's decisions cannot influence another person, nobody is free.



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