W7/Vista Client - Fact or Myth?

[Fiel]

People on this forum keep talking about BB bringing a W7/Vista capable client. Where did people get this idea?

Here are people talking about a W7/Vista client:

- sicnarf
- Atuan
- larmie

Only Atuan's shows any sort of proof here with a before and after BB screen, but that only shows resource optimization and has nothing to do with compatibility. If anything, I believe the addition of the eTracer in GMS's recent patch shows that the new client does not magically fix all of the W7/Vista disconnection issues. After all, if it did, there would be no need for the eTracer program.

Looking at these posts, however, I only see declarations and no proof of it. Considering the gravity of the matter, I believe some proof is in order to really determine if such a client is coming. So can someone show me some evidence that the Big Bang client is in any way more compatible with W7/Vista? Is it in patch notes... posted on the KMS(T) site... where? I'd really like to see evidence of this, and I'd like to know the sources of the people who I quoted above.

[Link]

The only "evidence" of anything about Windows 7 and Vista compatability with the MapleStory client was when Nexon Korea announced that they would release a client without compatability issues. That was at the end of last year. Everyone thought that it would be included with the Big Bang, considering it also comes with new changes like the bigger resolution and window mode. However, this is not the case. Players in Korean MapleStory are still having issues with compatability when playing. They disconnect at bosses and have other issues, just like those of us who have these issues playing GMS, JMS, MapleSEA, etc. on Windows Vista and 7.

In short, most people think it's there because Nexon Korea promised it, but like always, Nexon has either forgotten or hasn't gotten around to it yet.



I do remember there being rumors of there being compatability when Big Bang was first released, due to no one running into any issues, but like I said above, this is unfortunately not the case.

[sicnarf]

In short, most people think it's there because Nexon Korea promised it

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my assumption.

[Fiel]

How ironic that I find a small shred of evidence in one of my own posts:

Q. When is windowed mode coming out?
A. This has been a common complaint. I know that many of you have used windowed mode. But on our side, we had a problem. We can't know when windowed mode is set or disabled by default on the server, so we're having a problem dealing with screen resolutions. We have had other problems as well, such as continuing to deploy only for Windows XP when many of our users have moved on to other operating systems. These problems will be addressed in due time, most likely by Summer.

Okay, so that's Nexon saying something about it, but where is it implemented? Summer would indicate that they intend to fix it for Big Bang (after all, this Q&A was done last year), but was it ever?

[ZakumSlaYers]

MSEA v.93 is in fact compatible with Vista/W7 with very little disconnection rate, but Nexon got things screwed up again on Evan patch.
I can just HT fine with Windows Vista Home Premium then.

It might not be with big bang but with Nexon's ability to fix or break things up.

Indeed, as similar to GMS, the closer we are to having Dual blades, more disconnection problems with W7/Vista are faced.

[Combattente]

Unlike ours, their website says "or later".

It is very general, but.. yeah. It shows that they should've implemented some kind of compatibility.

Though, I for myself will say that I'm still experiencing issues when standing in crowded maps (flashing textures or screen going black, client completely stopping to work and eventually crashing). So I'm not sure if that compatibility is.. partial or total. Probably partial, unless the issues I'm getting on both GMS and KMS are my fault, but since other people are experiencing them, too, I doubt they are.

[Orit]

Stands to reason that if you're revamping your game, creating an all-new "Maple Story: The Next Generation", with new UI and screen resolution, you'd make it work right with current operating systems, doesn't it?
But yeah, this is Nexon we're talking about...

FWIW, I don't think it's an OS compatibility issue as such. It's poor programming in general. I've had the infamous "zakum winks in and out until you d/c" glitch happen on Windows XP, as well as other random glitches and disconnects. Nowhere near as bad as my friends using Vista or Windows 7, but enough to know it's not just the operating system.

It appears that MapleStory does bad things to graphic memory. Not sure what the English name is, in Hebrew we call it "memory smear", where you allocate X bytes but then write Y>X bytes of data, trampling memory locations that don't belong to you. These are some of the nastier bugs C++ allows you to make (don't get me wrong, I love C, but its power cuts both ways), and really hard to debug, because your process can be miles away before something tries to access the smeared locations for their legitimate use, and finds garbage there.
Vista and Windows 7 might just be more sensitive to these things, more likely to have something important just where Maple likes to encroach.

Anyway, Maple needs to be rewritten from the ground up. That dev blog intimated some rewriting of fundamentals has been done, but from what people are saying above, it's not enough.

[Combattente]

It appears that MapleStory does bad things to graphic memory.

I second this. It surely does bad things to graphics in general. I'm saying this because, sometimes, when my problem (which is OBVIOUSLY related to graphics) shows up, my Graphic Driver REBOOTS ITSELF because of a weird error, and a message on tray noticing the reboot of the graphic driver appears.

So yeah, it's surely something wrong with graphics. The client must have something wrong with it which conflicts with the graphics.

I'm also pretty sure that at least 70% of the issues of MapleStory are related to graphics.

Anyway, Maple needs to be rewritten from the ground up. That dev blog intimated some rewriting of fundamentals has been done, but from what people are saying above, it's not enough.

I can't agree more. They rewrote the fundamentals of the server code, now they should REALLY rewrite the client. To me, it's the only way to fix most of the issues which are related to it.

Since the client is one of the most importants part of the game (if not THE most important one), though, I'm pretty sure it'd be a LOOOOOOOOONG thing to do, and would require A LOT of money, time, and, obviously, really experienced developers who knows how things in MapleStory work very well.

[larmie]

Um, JMS is already partly compatible with Windows Vista/7 with the exception of
-Zakum
-Horntail
-Pink Been
-ch1 Free Market Entrance

People have been peaching that they dc on moving maps but there have been many, many Vista/7 players on JMS that could play normally. They experience more bugs and glitches than XP users but playing on Vista/7 is possible, unlike GMS. If anything it's the GMS client that has severe flaws (not just for Vista/7) and JMS probably has the best client (even better compatibility with Vista/7 pre-BB).

Proof: This is a website that mentions

何人かに　試してもらって撃破時生還者が増えてきたので

Translation: There has been several people who could stay connected when Horntail is defeated so

I could provide list of people playing JMS on Vista/7 if ppl want more examples. There are smegas everyday w/ someone peaching about Vista/7 issues (though it has died down a bit) on JMS servers, implying they can actually play the game w/o dcing in 30 seconds.

Spoiler

My two bits on this from what I gather on Southperry is GMS and KMS clients has additional layers of security that causes issues with Vista/7's own internal security system.
There's also the issue of where the line is between a program full of bugs/glitches and program being "incompatible"; Nexon games have always had a huge list of issues as with any other MMOs; I would say the current version of JMS and KMS is "compatible" with Vista/7; it just has a lot of glitches, as with the rest of us.

As for whether BB will bring a fully compatible client, we'll find out Wednesday. Nexon has said in the past that they are working on Vista/7 compatibility and while they never explicitly stated Big Bang will bring compatibility, it shouldn't be too hard to go from partly compatible to fully compatible (as opposed to "not compatible" like GMS). Even if JMST is fully compatible, it is a toss-up whether the same could be said for GMS(T). It would prove however that the client could run smoothly on Vista/7.

[Link]

I can't really confirm what Larmie said. Everyone I know that plays on Windows 7 in JMS hates it. In fact, lately, I've been experiencing many issues with JMS. I don't have XP to test it myself, but I've had parts of in-game windows disappearing, random lines appearing when I attack (as if the game were buggy), and a whole bunch of random crap. Maybe it has to do with certain programs people have or certain updates some have that others don't.

[larmie]

I can't really confirm what Larmie said. Everyone I know that plays on Windows 7 in JMS hates it. In fact, lately, I've been experiencing many issues with JMS. I don't have XP to test it myself, but I've had parts of in-game windows disappearing, random lines appearing when I attack (as if the game were buggy), and a whole bunch of random crap. Maybe it has to do with certain programs people have or certain updates some have that others don't.

Or maybe the fact you run the game over VPN. I have plenty of friends on Vista/7 and as laggy and dc-prone their game experience is, they're still doing the same things us XP players are doing.

[Link]

A VPN has nothing to do with the game. It's merely a network connection. If it were a program, I would say sure, it's possible, but since there's nothing that would interfere with the game itself, there's no reason to say that's the reason.

A lot of my Japanese friends that I used to go on Horntail runs and Future Tokyo boss runs with quit MapleStory due to the 7/Vista errors. They've quit really recently as well (within the past two months).

Maybe it's all hardware? Some graphics cards may not work well enough with MapleStory on other operating systems to keep up with the newest stuff.


I'm pretty sure a good portion of it has to do with what people have on their computers, how updated their drivers are and how well the Maple client can correspond with what's on those computers.

[Orit]

larmie, GMS can be run on Vista and Windows 7. It might be a matter of luck, or of your graphics driver. You might experience almost no problems (or no more than XP), or you might "only" dc/hang every half hour and be unable to zakum/ht, or you might not be able to cc or go through portals. Some people experience different levels of "incompatibility" on different days tho, so it can't just be the driver. I honestly can't imagine how Nexon managed to make a "simple" 2D side-scroller so hard on the platform.

[larmie]

A VPN has nothing to do with the game. It's merely a network connection. If it were a program, I would say sure, it's possible, but since there's nothing that would interfere with the game itself, there's no reason to say that's the reason.

A lot of my Japanese friends that I used to go on Horntail runs and Future Tokyo boss runs with quit MapleStory due to the 7/Vista errors. They've quit really recently as well (within the past two months).

Maybe it's all hardware? Some graphics cards may not work well enough with MapleStory on other operating systems to keep up with the newest stuff.


I'm pretty sure a good portion of it has to do with what people have on their computers, how updated their drivers are and how well the Maple client can correspond with what's on those computers.

This. I posted here about how there's a lot you could do on your end to improve the gaming experience. Latest service pack, latest drivers, latest runtime, etc. Not everyone who uses Vista/7 runs on the same spec computer so some people might get lucky and end up with no problems. I use XP and I have chronic issues with compatibility with other programs (RealPlayer ) and the same just happens a lot more to Vista/7 users.

Spoiler

I always viewed DirectX with a eyes; other programs that use it tend to crash or lose the picture when I run Maple like RealPlayer and Livestation)

Just pointing out that if there was no IP checks for KMST, wouldn't Vista/7 users who played KMST be able to tell us if it worked for them?

[ZakumSlaYers]

This. I posted here about how there's a lot you could do on your end to improve the gaming experience. Latest service pack, latest drivers, latest runtime, etc. Not everyone who uses Vista/7 runs on the same spec computer so some people might get lucky and end up with no problems. I use XP and I have chronic issues with compatibility with other programs (RealPlayer ) and the same just happens a lot more to Vista/7 users.



Just pointing out that if there was no IP checks for KMST, wouldn't Vista/7 users who played KMST be able to tell us if it worked for them?

There's in fact IP check and HS check unvisualized by Themida since it wasnt packed, I've been debugging the leaked KMST client for some time to dig out some hidden information.

[larmie]

There's in fact IP check and HS check unvisualized by Themida since it wasnt packed, I've been debugging the leaked KMST client for some time to dig out some hidden information.

Can you successively jump cast dragon strike? Right now you have to use a different skill every other jump. When i wanted to test it in KMST it was too late...

Also, there wasn't an IP check in KMST...

Um?

[ZakumSlaYers]

Um?

Take a look at Hackshield's DLL/ proxy dll, most information are there and the client uses it by calling them up.
Few example is the proxified ws2_32.dll, User32.dll, Kernel32.dl.

[Combattente]

Maybe it's all hardware? Some graphics cards may not work well enough with MapleStory on other operating systems to keep up with the newest stuff.

That's what I think, too. I made a dual boot between Windows XP and Windows 7, and, while MapleStory works perfectly on Windows XP (which, I think it's something noteworthy, is the 32-bit version) with my graphics card and has never given me any issue, it gives me all those issues on Windows 7 (64-bit), obviously with the same graphics card.

I'm pretty sure a good portion of it has to do with what people have on their computers, how updated their drivers are and how well the Maple client can correspond with what's on those computers.

I can assure that my graphic drivers are 100% updated to the last version, as well as my OS in general. In fact, it appears that the last one gives MORE problems than the previous ones. Though, using previous ones apparently doesn't help either, because it still gives me those issues with the client when standing in crowded maps for a long time, fighting bosses with a boss HP bar, etc., even if I can play for longer.

I don't know if it's related to my 64-bit version of Windows or if it's any software I have. I can't really tell either, and I'm pretty sure nobody can. One thing is sure: on this computer, when MapleStory is running, my video card stops working and has to reboot itself. To me, it can't be anything else than that. If it was something else, like, for example, DirectX, I doubt the video card would stop working.

[Dystopiq]

That's what I think, too. I made a dual boot between Windows XP and Windows 7, and, while MapleStory works perfectly on Windows XP (which, I think it's something noteworthy, is the 32-bit version) with my graphics card and has never given me any issue, it gives me all those issues on Windows 7 (64-bit), obviously with the same graphics card.



I can assure that my graphic drivers are 100% updated to the last version, as well as my OS in general. In fact, it appears that the last one gives MORE problems than the previous ones. Though, using previous ones apparently doesn't help either, because it still gives me those issues with the client when standing in crowded maps for a long time, fighting bosses with a boss HP bar, etc., even if I can play for longer.

I don't know if it's related to my 64-bit version of Windows or if it's any software I have. I can't really tell either, and I'm pretty sure nobody can. One thing is sure: on this computer, when MapleStory is running, my video card stops working and has to reboot itself. To me, it can't be anything else than that. If it was something else, like, for example, DirectX, I doubt the video card would stop working.

I can verify this as well. I dual boot W7 Ultimate x64 and XP and have all drivers updated on both. On XP MS runs without errors and random problems associated with MS, but on W7 it's practically garbage.Same Graphics card driver. Same DX9 Version.

[Combattente]

I can verify this as well. I dual boot W7 Ultimate x64 and XP and have all drivers updated on both. On XP MS runs without errors and random problems associated with MS, but on W7 it's practically garbage.Same Graphics card driver. Same DX9 Version.

I really wonder what's causing it.. if only developers could find out..

Even KMS has issues with Windows 7 for me right now, and they supposedly have a compatible client.