Ask a Bowman Thread.

[Jason]

Welcome to the "Ask a Bowman Thread!"

What is the "Ask a Bowman Thread?"

It is a thread (hopefully sticked!) that will allow you to ask as many questions you can ask to the Bowmen of Maple. They will try their best to answer your question/concern.

All you have to do post your question/concern. It would be very helpful if the question was to the point, specific, and preferably readable! It's just so that the Bowmen can understand you. :D

Example questions:

• What is the difference between a Crossbow and a Bow?
• What should I add my first SP among my 1st Job Advancement?
• Should I scroll my Heckler/V2k?
• Should I HP wash?
• What are the pros/cons of being a Bowman?

Basic information:

• Before making your 1st Job Advancement, make sure to have 25 AP into Dex.
• Primary stat for a Bowman is Dex, secondary is Strength.
• (Cross)Bow equipping:
  
  • Crossbow- Strength=Your Level. (ex: Level 38, Str=38.)
  • Bow- Strenght=Your Level+5. (ex: Level 40, Str=45.)

Frequently asked questions:
1. What is Final Attack? And should I get it?

Final Attack is a 2nd job skill that takes 30 points to max. It shoots an extra strong when using Arrow Blow, Double Shot, or Arrow Bomb/Iron Arrow at a 60% rate when maxed. Most Bowmen recommend not getting it because it does not activate with Strafe in 3rd job. However the choice of getting FA depends on the person playing the character.

2. What is that super fast skill that fires like a machine gun?

That skill is a Bowmaster exclusive skill. It’s called Hurricane.

3. What is the difference between a Crossbowman/Sniper/Marksman and a Hunter/Ranger/Bowmaster?

Crossbowmen/Sniper/Marksman:-Uses Crossbows (duh).
-Generally stronger of the two.
-Generally a slower attacking speed compared to a Bow.
-Iron Arrow (2nd), Ice Shot, Arrow Eruption (3rd), Pierce, Blind, Snipe, Frostprey (4th).

Hunter/Ranger/Bowmaster
-Uses Bows.
-Generally weaker of the two.
-Generally a faster attacking speed compared to a Crossbow.
-Arrow Bomb (2nd), Inferno, Arrow Rain (3rd), Hurricane, Concentrate, Hamstring, Pheonix (4th).

Those are the basic differences. Most agree that Snipers have the better 3rd job because they are able to freeze. Also with Strafe, the speed pertaining to them before is pretty much gone, but Snipers are doing more because of their damage formula. Bowmasters and Marksmen are pretty even.

4. I heard there are these so called "hell levels". What are they exactly?

Hell levels are basically a certain level arch when training is damn hard. Most archers agree they are the Mid 4x-50 and 6x-mid 7x. These are the parts you'll be either stuck at training spots with a weapon that sucks so you can't move on, or you'll be stuck because of underdeveloped 3rd job skills.

5. Why do most Archers stick with the Red Viper/Heckler at 3x-50?

Because of the fast attack speed. It's the last fast attack speed bow you'll ever hold, unless you can find yourself a decent Blue Metus (Ranger).

6. Does Soul Arrow stack with arrows?

It has been proven countless times that Soul Arrow does not stack with arrows. It may show on your stat screen, but it will never achieve that damage.

7. Where do I train as an archer?

Refer to Retalion’s guide.

Guides:
Where to level guide by Retalion: http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31

[Trinity]

my question is...

Did you think of this thread yourself?
(geekly checks sw)

hmm jason, if thats your real ign.
are you really a bowman
(scratches beard)

[Anyoneisgod]

I look forward to helping people here and urge any bowman to ask what you need to know here.There is no such thing ask Noob questions.

[Trinity]

Can bow booster give "faster" bows even faster speed?

is there even another rate aboce faster?

[Jason]

my question is...

Did you think of this thread yourself?
(geekly checks sw)

hmm jason, if thats your real ign.
are you really a bowman
(scratches beard)

1. Your question doesn't involve Bowmen >_>". But yes, this is pretty much a copy of Sleepy. But isn't this "Bowman Training Section" similar to Sleepy?

2. Jason is not my real IGN. It's my real life name. And what would my User Name have to do with my IGN in Maple? Just some FYI, I've actually quit Maple. And my main is not a Bowman. Have I played one? Yes.

[Retalion]

Seriously, what effort is "copying and pasting" everything and then changing the word "Warrior" into Bowman? The guidelines you're giving isnt to an "Ask the archers" thread, its to a "What to buy" thread. Show some effort into maintaining a thread before copy and pasting and asking for it to be stickied (as after contributing basically nothing into the thread, it doesnt deserve a spot in the stickies).

I'd say leave threads like this for the moderators to make. That being said, if questions are asked in here, I will answer them with whatever knowledge I havea available.

As for ideas on how to make a real "Ask the Archers" thread:

-Do an FAQ. Commonly asked archer questions such as "Should I get FA", "Do attack arrows stack with Soul arrow", "Do I get Focus", etc.
-Have some guidelines of what you can and cannot ask (as some things are overlapping. For example, Where to train questions wont be posted here. It'd be posted in my thread, etc).

A thread like this isnt going to work if the thread starter isnt willing to put some effort into maintaining this thread and answering the questions. That being said, even if you dont maintain it, people like Colum and I would do your job for you >_> I suppose good luck getting it stickied?

I shall now go and copy and paste this thread into the other "Ask the _____" threads because the same concept applies. Just kidding.

[Anyoneisgod]

You should ask Fiel or some other mod to Rename this Thread if possible, This is a what to buy thread.

[Jason]

Chill guys. It's just to start up to get this forum going. I'm fixing it up as we speak. No need to go crazy on me. >_>" Way to bring a guy down. ~_~ Every great thread comes in good time. If I didn't care, wouldn't I have just copied everything from Sleepywood itself?

Seriously give me a few days to spice it up, they if you still feel that it sucks, then I'll simply close this thread for you to remake. No sweat right? I don't have like all the free time in the world. Just give me time before you start criticizing. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but pomegranate, you make it seem as if I was just gonna leave this thread the way it is. The thing is, I'm not.

Lastly, I don't have all the answers, that's why the community of the class will help answer.

[Anyoneisgod]

we did not mean to being you down dude, just a little constructive Critt eh? sorry if it felt like i was beating up on you.

[Retalion]

Chill guys. It's just to start up to get this forum going. I'm fixing it up as we speak. No need to go crazy on me. >_>" Way to bring a guy down. ~_~ Every great thread comes in good time. If I didn't care, wouldn't I have just copied everything from Sleepywood itself?

Seriously give me a few days to spice it up, they if you still feel that it sucks, then I'll simply close this thread for you to remake. No sweat right? I don't have like all the free time in the world. Just give me time before you start criticizing. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but pomegranate, you make it seem as if I was just gonna leave this thread the way it is. The thing is, I'm not.

Lastly, I don't have all the answers, that's why the community of the class will help answer.

Im not going crazy. Im just saying. Hell, I even threw in suggestions. If I was intent on just flaming you to hell, I would've done so without offering ideas for improvement. If you say so, then I'll take your word for it and wait a few days to see the new look on the thread ^^

[Wind]

*Has the neccesary experience with Archers so will make some nice Q&A table*

Question: Final Attack. Yes or no?
Answer: Definately no, it will trigger with 2nd job skills and 2nd job skills only (con #1), which means it'll also trigger with AB or IA, which will mess up your mobbing (con #2).
Also, at bosses, you -could- be 1HKO food, if FA triggers, you get to enjoy the sound of a falling gravestone (con #3).

Question: HOLY pomegranate HURRICANE BRB BM.
Answer: Have fun getting to late 14x-15x, because THEN it'll be worth it being a Bowmaster for the reason you made it for.

Question: Ranger, Sniper. What's the difference?
Answer: Rangers use bows, Snipers use crossbows. Snipers can freeze, Rangers can't.
In my opinion, they'll only be significantly different during 4th job.

Question: I heard there are the so called "hell levels". What levels exactly and why?
Answer: Mid 4x-50 and 6x-mid 7x. These are the parts you'll be either stuck at training spots with a weapon that sucks so you can't move on, or you'll be stuck because of underdevelopped 3rd job skills.

Question: Why do most Archers stick with the Red Viper/Heckler at 3x-50?
Answer: Because of the fast attack speed. It's the last fast attack speed bow you'll ever hold, unless you're a snobrich Ranger that can afford a Blue Metus.

Question: LOL MARKSMEN SUCK IN 4TH JOB BRB QUITTING.
Answer: If it were the case that BMs and MMs had about the same range with about the same equipment, I would agree. (Give it up guys. Hurricane > Pierce.)
HOWEVER, this is not the case. Crossbows are WAY cheaper than bows, so scrolling an epic crossbow is easier than scrolling an epic bow. And they can freeze.
I'd say they're about equal. BMs WILL win at stationary DPS most of the times though (Zakum, Horntail).

Question: Will you get ANY party skills at all during pre-4th job?
Answer: No. DURING 4th job however, you'll be loved for SE.

Question: Will you give me mesos please? :3
Answer: No.

Question: Where do I train as an archer?
Answer: In a nutshell: Snails -> Slimes -> Ellinia mushrooms trees -> Wild Boars -> Ludi teddies -> Straw Target Dummies -> Voodoos/Zombies -> First squid map -> Second squid map -> Gobies -> Jr.Newties (-> Skelegons). Et voila level 200.

Question: What do you think what's so good about Archers?
Answer: Their diversity, they have a nice arsenal of actively used skills.

Question: What do you think what's so bad about Archers?
Answer: Their lack of HP. >_>

Question: Any closing statements?
Answer: Make sure you play an Archer for fun, not for bandwagoning. (Most of you will quit around 4x anyways and go back to your Bishops. D: )

[Derimed]

Question: Ranger, Sniper. What's the difference?
Answer: Rangers use bows, Snipers use crossbows. Snipers can freeze, Rangers can't.
In my opinion, they'll only be significantly different during 4th job.

There is a significant speed difference. If you watch a Ranger spamming Rain, and a Sniper spamming Eruption, you'll see it. (Strafe is now equal for both, I think.) Also, the power of clean crossbows tends to be greater than that of bows, and their damage calculation is greater than of bows.

If you plan to make an archer god, I'd suggest going with bow because a lot of people think it's better in 4th. That, and I'd say the lesser power of the bow can be compensated with godly equips, (I've had people remark that I can outdamage a hermit of my lvl, but let's not get into that.) However, xbow also has very nice skills, and ultimately it's also enjoyable.

[Kevvl]

There is a significant speed difference. If you watch a Ranger spamming Rain, and a Sniper spamming Eruption, you'll see it. (Strafe is now equal for both, I think.) Also, the power of clean crossbows tends to be greater than that of bows, and their damage calculation is greater than of bows.

If you plan to make an archer god, I'd suggest going with bow because a lot of people think it's better in 4th. That, and I'd say the lesser power of the bow can be compensated with godly equips, (I've had people remark that I can outdamage a hermit of my lvl, but let's not get into that.) However, xbow also has very nice skills, and ultimately it's also enjoyable.

Strafe looks faster, but in reality it isn't.
If the power of a bow can be compensated with godly equips, couldn't you also make an equally godly Xbowman?

The only real difference is the freezing vs. Inferno. DoT for both is about the same, so the speed isn't that important.


Although I disagree with what you say about FA+AB. It increases DoT on single monsters, and although it does lower your DoT on mobs, the way FA dsitributes damage makes it fairly helpful for hunters.

[Retalion]

*Has the neccesary experience with Archers so will make some nice Q&A table*

Question: Final Attack. Yes or no?
Answer: Definately no, it will trigger with 2nd job skills and 2nd job skills only (con #1), which means it'll also trigger with AB or IA, which will mess up your mobbing (con #2).
Also, at bosses, you -could- be 1HKO food, if FA triggers, you get to enjoy the sound of a falling gravestone (con #3).

Question: HOLY pomegranate HURRICANE BRB BM.
Answer: Have fun getting to late 14x-15x, because THEN it'll be worth it being a Bowmaster for the reason you made it for.

Question: Ranger, Sniper. What's the difference?
Answer: Rangers use bows, Snipers use crossbows. Snipers can freeze, Rangers can't.
In my opinion, they'll only be significantly different during 4th job.

Question: I heard there are the so called "hell levels". What levels exactly and why?
Answer: Mid 4x-50 and 6x-mid 7x. These are the parts you'll be either stuck at training spots with a weapon that sucks so you can't move on, or you'll be stuck because of underdevelopped 3rd job skills.

Question: Why do most Archers stick with the Red Viper/Heckler at 3x-50?
Answer: Because of the fast attack speed. It's the last fast attack speed bow you'll ever hold, unless you're a snobrich Ranger that can afford a Blue Metus.

Question: LOL MARKSMEN SUCK IN 4TH JOB BRB QUITTING.
Answer: If it were the case that BMs and MMs had about the same range with about the same equipment, I would agree. (Give it up guys. Hurricane > Pierce.)
HOWEVER, this is not the case. Crossbows are WAY cheaper than bows, so scrolling an epic crossbow is easier than scrolling an epic bow. And they can freeze.
I'd say they're about equal. BMs WILL win at stationary DPS most of the times though (Zakum, Horntail).

Question: Will you get ANY party skills at all during pre-4th job?
Answer: No. DURING 4th job however, you'll be loved for SE.

Question: Will you give me mesos please? :3
Answer: No.

Question: Where do I train as an archer?
Answer: In a nutshell: Snails -> Slimes -> Ellinia mushrooms trees -> Wild Boars -> Ludi teddies -> Straw Target Dummies -> Voodoos/Zombies -> First squid map -> Second squid map -> Gobies -> Jr.Newties (-> Skelegons). Et voila level 200.

Question: What do you think what's so good about Archers?
Answer: Their diversity, they have a nice arsenal of actively used skills.

Question: What do you think what's so bad about Archers?
Answer: Their lack of HP. >_>

Question: Any closing statements?
Answer: Make sure you play an Archer for fun, not for bandwagoning. (Most of you will quit around 4x anyways and go back to your Bishops. D: )

I was going to make a list like that today but you beat me to it xP I'll just comment on some of your points and go from there I suppose.

Final Attack: Its not a definite no. Ive had 2 rangers over 120, 1 with FA, the other without and I'd say that both were fine. I had no hinderances with using either. You just mentioned the cons of FA but there are a few pros to it (such as leveling faster through 2nd job and whatnot). The general consensus is that FA-less is the way to go but I would say its not the end of the world if you did get FA and if you have FA, you shouldnt be discriminated against.

As for hell levels, I'd say they're a myth because of the training spots that we have now. You can get from 4x to 5x easily now as a hunter with zombie lupins or as an xbowman with STDs. Back in beta and early GMS when the only 4x places were lupins, pixies, fire boars and copper drakes, yeah those are hell levels. Now not so much though. Its highly possible to fly through the 4x-5x levels in a day now.

Fast bows: That's not entirely true anymore. Red Vipers/Hecklers have been replaced by maple bows and xbows, which are then replaced by soul searchers and maple crows which are then replaced by kandivas and nishadas. Kandivas and Nishadas are now the last "fast" bow that you use and some people will use them for the rest of their archer careers. That being said, at 120, for rangers/bow masters, the speed wont matter as SoA isnt affected by shooting speed. The Red Viper/Heckler thing was only true back in the day when the only 35 bow was the RV and the only 40 bow was the V2k.

Training: Refer to my training thread. While the little outline you had is somewhat accurate, some of those places are outdated (Ie. Wild boars).

Archer HP thing worthy of mention: If you have the money you can hp wash, almost completely eliminating the "lack of hp" weakness. However, its really expensive, both in terms of nx and mesos (INT equips cost A LOT).

Additional questions?

Focus vs. Blessing: Most archers choose focus for the extra avoidability. Blessing can stack with other skills/pots but for the most part and focus will get overbuffed by Bless, acc pills, etc. That being said, archers dont need the extra acc. They have enough to hit anything in game as it is.

Double Shot vs. Arrow Blow: Because Critical adds 100% dmg and doesnt double, Double shot is stronger in terms of max damage and average damage.

Do attack arrows stack with soul arrow? Nope, proven many times already

Str-less vs. Normal Strength-Strless will be stronger till the high bow master levels and their damage will be the same as normal strength with gear that is significantly less impressive (my glove added 6 more attack than my strless friend, my overall had 15 more dex, my cape 1 atk 2 dex more and we had the same dmg range). However, you also gain fewer advantages from various boss items. You only use 15 stats from the z-helm (normal str use 30: 15 str and 15 dex) and only 22 from a HT pendant (22 str vs 22 str + 22 dex). As well, most overalls have 2-4 str on them anyways so you lose out another few points there.

What is the dex: attack ratio? The ratio constantly changes. The more dex you have, the higher the dex: attack ratio is. I remember at 50 its roughly 3:1 as my 2/9 PAC and my 3/6 PAC had the EXACT same dmg range (like literally exact, rofl).

That's all I can think of for now, lols.

[Cardboardsnail]

4X-50 isn't what I would call "hell levels"

It's actually pretty smooth

[Impassive]

Level 66
White Polyfeather Hat: +2 Str, +4 Dex
Cecelia's Earrings: Clean
Orange Tai: +5 Str +12 Dex
Red Gore Boots: +3 Str +2 Dex
Spielgelmann Necklace: +1 All
Blue Napoleon: +8 Dex
Work Gloves: 8 Weapon Attack
Asianic Bow: 89 Weapon Attack

53 Million Mesos
What upgrades should I do next for level 70?

Thank you~

[Wind]

4X-50 isn't what I would call "hell levels"

It's actually pretty smooth

Used to be in my time (lol I'm old :( ). But that was two years ago. Maybe three?

[Retalion]

Level 66
White Polyfeather Hat: +2 Str, +4 Dex
Cecelia's Earrings: Clean
Orange Tai: +5 Str +12 Dex
Red Gore Boots: +3 Str +2 Dex
Spielgelmann Necklace: +1 All
Blue Napoleon: +8 Dex
Work Gloves: 8 Weapon Attack
Asianic Bow: 89 Weapon Attack

53 Million Mesos
What upgrades should I do next for level 70?

Thank you~

*continues doing what I do on SW*

At 70, with 53 mill you can probably get a 98-100 atk hinkel so that'd be your best bet. That being said, you also have enough for a z-helm so I'd say get a z-helm now and hope to have enough money for a decent-good hinkel (95-100 atk). Getting a z-helm now means you dont need to put more points into strength to use a hinkel so that's always a plus.

[Luscent]

I'm a Sniper going early AE build, and I've been having a bit of a dilemma with the potion usage, as in it's ridiculous. I still end up making a profit, but is it normal to use 850 Barb Elixirs in 4 hours of training? At level 76 872~1561 is my damage range without a warrior elixir, but that's soon changing as of today with me acquiring my zhelm and 2/5 Facestompers. Will my potion usage start to go down a bit with higher damage? or can I expect to see myself downing 800 potions per 4 hours still?

[Apollo]

I'm a Sniper going early AE build, and I've been having a bit of a dilemma with the potion usage, as in it's ridiculous. I still end up making a profit, but is it normal to use 850 Barb Elixirs in 4 hours of training? At level 76 872~1561 is my damage range without a warrior elixir, but that's soon changing as of today with me acquiring my zhelm and 2/5 Facestompers. Will my potion usage start to go down a bit with higher damage? or can I expect to see myself downing 800 potions per 4 hours still?

It would help if you told us where you're training. But anyways, from my experience, I usually use around 850-1000 Barbs at newties.

I doubt your new equips will make a significant difference in your pot usage because pot consumption is also relying on how well you can use your archer. But like I said, it's difficult to tell without knowing what you're training on.