If someone steals your wallet and checkbook and goes on a spending spree as you who is liable?Originally Posted by SwordStaker
Is it you? Is it the stores? is it the bank?
Hint: It's not #1.
If someone steals your wallet and checkbook and goes on a spending spree as you who is liable?
Is it you? Is it the stores? is it the bank?
Hint: It's not #1.
Which one of the two stole ita person working for the bank can steal my stuff just as easily as someone from the store can.
This is what I miss most since I've started avoiding this general part of the forum.Which one of the two stole it
Smartasses?
Hacking issue:whatever changed my info most of it's just bs and will be swept under the rug soon
inregards to this last conversation: Eos is right on practicaly everything he said. END OF THAT DISCUSSION. however if any of you try to sue nexon please tell me about it so I can laugh at your testimony.
I pop into this site every so often and I see op Mercedes, and hacking. gotta love missing things
Neither of them. An unknown 4th party did it. Who's liable? Does the bank just tell you "Oh well, someone spent it and since it was your account it's gone".Which one of the two stole it
"NEITHER THE COMPANY NOR ANY OF OUR PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, LICENSORS, SUPPLIERS, ADVERTISERS, SPONSORS OR PARTNERS, NOR OUR OR THEIR DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, CONSULTANTS, AGENTS, ATTORNEYS OR OTHER REPRESENTATIVES, ARE RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES OF ANY KIND (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS, LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF GOOD WILL OR LOST PROFITS), UNDER ANY CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHER THEORY ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING IN ANY WAY TO THE SERVICE (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION THE SITE, THE GAMES, THE SOFTWARE AND ALL OTHER CONTENT CONTAINED THEREIN), YOUR ACCOUNT (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR CASH ITEMS OR NEXON CASH), ANY LINKED SITE OR ANY PRODUCT OR SERVICE PURCHASED THROUGH YOUR USE OF THE SERVICE, EVEN IF THE COMPANY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES."
---Nexon Terms of Use
They are not responsible. The right to play the game agrees that if poop hits the fan and you get splattered, you can't blame them. And as for the blah blahs about suing them:
"As a condition of your access to and use of the Service and/or Site, you agree to indemnify, defend and hold the Company, our parents, affiliates, subsidiaries, independent contractors, licensors, suppliers, advertisers, partners, sublicensees and sponsors, and our and their directors, officers, employees, consultants, agents, attorneys and other representatives, harmless from and against any and all claims, damages, losses, liabilities . . . "
Again, by playing the game at all, we signed away our rights to hold them legally liable for anything at all. So yes, Nexon can, and will, sit on their bit fat piles of cash and laugh as their perfectly harmless players scramble to buy locks for anything they wish to keep because it's not THEIR damn fault we got hacked, no matter what caused it.
You are incorrect. Period.
Liability does not go away simply because you say you don't want to be responsible for it. If that were the case you could wear a shirt saying "Not responsible for damages", pop a bumper sticker with it on your car, and start ramming into every car and the road and telling them it's their fault for not getting out of your way when you clearly disclaimed liability.
If I sign a piece of paper that says you own me, you do not legally me, because ownership of another individual is illegal.
If you're not a lawyer, don't have a background in law, have not had to take college level business law, have not been in a suit regarding liability and do not have any specific documentation to back you up you do not need to be dispensing legal advice regarding what is or is not enforceable because your opinion does not dictate fact. Clauses like that are specifically created to make end users feel helpless and reduce the number of potential claims. They don't actually create a legally binding contract or limitation, they create a purely mental one so that victims feel like it's their own fault and out of their control.
Eos, at this point, I should mention that you trying to argue this sense into a lot of people might more or less be moot. It's like presenting all counter-evidence against the Bible to a religious believer who responds to all your evidence with: "But the Bible says it's true!"
I really do hope though that one of the victims files a lawsuit against Nexon for negligence.
I know what you're saying and I agree with a lot of it to an extent. That's about all I'll say on that matter. It's just hard for me to see scenarios like this because anytime I'VE been hacked or a friend has it's been by our own stupidity>.>
First you need to find evidence of a break in. Then there has to be a huge loss of money in the picture. Nexon's gonna win that battle.
It is not our own stupidity this time though. Nexon allowed what seems to be a giant leak that comprimised thousands of account in a matter of a few weeks. It's not our own stupidity. It's nexon's own stupidity. Even if it wasn't a leak. Nexon's has done very little about these hackers to save our skins from what might happen and what has happened. Nexon has acknowledged this problem yet refuses nexon forum discussions on it.
Maybe if they didnt write the whole thing in caps, people would actually manage to read it :/ Unless it was intentional to make it impossible to read, so people would actually sign such ridiculous ToS.
Yes I can see that. But here's the question. Without ANY reasonable doubt can you prove that there was a break in?
Read the edit. Also I said "what seems to be".
Why would NEXON want to talk about it? If your company was really under attack would you really want to spread more fear about it? It's like the police department saying there's a killer loose. They aren't going to tell you the details, just tell you ways to be safe.
Because it's important for a company to realize what happened and learn from it. They aren't talking because they want to do as little as possible to help the situation because they know they won't have anyone go against them. They outright refused to the 2009 hackings, and the most people did was complain on consumers website on the top 100(or 10) worst companies. That didn't get us far. The police DO tell details of the killer to keep civilians safe. This way people can call the police to zero in on the killer.
Man, I really love the people who think the ToS is the final word.
If you look at it in another way, their jobs depend on you being afraid enough of other people that you want them. So, by spreading information like that, they would essentially be adding job security.
[Jr. Event Coordinator]
Why argue about it really? Arguing wont do anything here. We cant do anything and thats the pineappleing truth. Its just apart of life
you can do something, quit the game and never worry about these type of crap :)
Eos are YOU a lawyer???
And there's a massive difference between slapping a sticker in a car and destroying PHYSICAL property as opposed to something that exists in a VIRTUAL world. Nexon owns the rights to the "property" that we the "players" consider ours. But we don't OWN any of it, as stated by Nexon in the terms of service. ""all content included therein (including without limitation graphics, artwork, music, choreography, characters, character IDs, Forum IDs, account IDs, Cash Items and/or other items acquired or created in the Service, including through the Cash Shop) are owned by Nexon America or its licensors," What we sign up for, by playing the game is the RIGHT to USE the PROPERTY of Nexon. This is why they have the right to revoke any rights we have to use their property in the form of banning players from the game, rollbacks, etc.
Lets bring that to the car analogy from previously. But lets say, instead of YOUR car, it's your friends car. "Hey man, here's a car for you to use a long as you want" Woo! Free car! So you take this car, and put a ton of money into it, put in new upholstery, tint the windows, and add amazing stereo. It's a super awesome car now!
Well, then someone comes along, and since the car is say, of older design, it's easy to break in to. But your friend didn't know that when he LOANED it to you. The jerk that breaks in, steals your crap, pisses all over the interior, and breaks your windows. It's completely un-usable now unless you start all over to repair it.
What are you going to do now? Sue your friend because he didn't know it was an easy target to break into? Demand that your friend pay you all the money you put into the car because it was HIS car to start with?? I think not. I'm not a massive fan of Nexon by any means, but I doubt they were very aware that they had made a huge hole in their security. Either way, it's their game, we don't own a single pixal of it.
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