[Bowman] [RED] Archer Skill Builds

[IsaacGS]

I don't see Marksmanship mentioned on here at all. What's the opinion on that? At the moment, i've got Bow Expert/Hurricane/SE near max, and I can't seem to tell if it would be a good idea to toss some points into that when i'm resetting.

[JoeTang]

That's a good question. Maxed Marksmanship is a 1.02x increase in damage while training. Should be a slightly higher priority if you either boss/intend to boss, or desperately require a little bit of HP. It'd require some more number crunching, but I'm feeling that getting some Expert and then a decent SE timer while staying on 1 Hurricane, and then maxing Expert and then SE is more beneficial unless there's some specific single target training (LHC) available where Hurricane would take priority over maxing SE. I think Marksmanship can come after this point because in terms of damage-skillpoint efficiency, Marksmanship isn't particularly good.

On normal monsters with 10 PDRate, you gain a 1.02x increase in damage for 10 skill points. On Zakum who has 40 PDRate for example, you get a 1.13x increase in damage for 10 skill points.
1 vs 11 Hurricane is a 1.14x increase. 20 vs 30 Hurricane is a 1.11x increase. etc.
20 vs 30 Expert's minimum damage increase is 1.03x increase, plus it gives 10 watk, and 5% more critical minimum which is more beneficial when you have higher crit rate from SE
20 vs 30 SE is 1.20x increase with no Expert, and with maxed Expert it's a 1.19x

There's some other small factors involved, but I just don't see particularly good efficiency in it.

[Hotshot]

I'm sorry. Should my build be aimed to get 1 in every skill first then so it spices pomegranate up too? You don't spend 50 to 60 levels with Double Shot because no one should use Double Shot while training. If they want to use Double Shot, it's to DPS at a boss, and that is the exact opposite reason of why they would want level 1 Strafe.

Maybe I'm underestimating the changes in training maps, but last time I checked iron arrow/arrow bomb does not kill everything evenly leaving 0 stragglers. If you finish a mob and there's one monster a bit ahead, or maybe a single spawn behind you, it's generally a good idea to go ahead and shoot it with a single-target attack. Strafe is only slightly weaker than double shot, and is more consistent in its damage, making it better for cleanup purposes. 1 skillpoint will not break a sniper or ranger build by any means, nor will a small reduction in a type of skill you don't really use that often since there is NO boss you need to dps at by level 90. I don't know if you look at snipers/rangers from some sort of 'text adventure game' point of view, but waiting until level 98, 28 levels into 3rd job, before adding a single point into strafe is simply not in the spirit of the game or the class. This isn't a dayjob, why would anyone want to deprive themselves of a bit of cheap and useful flash? I just think you should mention it as an option in your explanation following your build, that's all.

[Dusk]

Why would a "for fun" skill be mentioned in a guide? Level 1 Strafe is not as good as Double Shot with maxed Enhanced Basics.

[darksyte]

just some food for thought, before resets were given out and i had my 1 point in strafe i was able to consistently and easily pin most bosses in the dojo up until about frank. after the reset ive been using double shot and the delay between attacks is giving the bosses more of a chance to break the pin where strafe was a tighter stream of arrows and also felt a lot faster. seeing how at level 84 i still get an easy 14% per 10 minute solo run its something to consider.

[JoeTang]

Maybe I'm underestimating the changes in training maps, but last time I checked iron arrow/arrow bomb does not kill everything evenly leaving 0 stragglers. If you finish a mob and there's one monster a bit ahead, or maybe a single spawn behind you, it's generally a good idea to go ahead and shoot it with a single-target attack. Strafe is only slightly weaker than double shot, and is more consistent in its damage, making it better for cleanup purposes. 1 skillpoint will not break a sniper or ranger build by any means, nor will a small reduction in a type of skill you don't really use that often since there is NO boss you need to dps at by level 90. I don't know if you look at snipers/rangers from some sort of 'text adventure game' point of view, but waiting until level 98, 28 levels into 3rd job, before adding a single point into strafe is simply not in the spirit of the game or the class. This isn't a dayjob, why would anyone want to deprive themselves of a bit of cheap and useful flash? I just think you should mention it as an option in your explanation following your build, that's all.

If people want to put a single skill point into Strafe, then they can do it. I'm not going to tell them to though because it's stupid.

just some food for thought, before resets were given out and i had my 1 point in strafe i was able to consistently and easily pin most bosses in the dojo up until about frank. after the reset ive been using double shot and the delay between attacks is giving the bosses more of a chance to break the pin where strafe was a tighter stream of arrows and also felt a lot faster. seeing how at level 84 i still get an easy 14% per 10 minute solo run its something to consider.

This makes no sense at all.

[jtvgeo]

nvm. mistake.

[Hotshot]

Why would a "for fun" skill be mentioned in a guide? Level 1 Strafe is not as good as Double Shot with maxed Enhanced Basics.

Because guides aren't for robots/this isn't a text-based game, people like seeing changes with their class + having motivation to keep going. I realized the problem from the beginning, that I'm trying to apply psychology to a game guide, but I just had to take a minute and talk about how ridiculous I found the idea of 3rd job archers waiting for level 98 to get their staple single target skill. Adding my first point in strafe and going to kill jr yetis post-advancement is probably my fondest archer memory, and because of how literally people follow guides, I just hate to see that possibility being taken away from people.

If people want to put a single skill point into Strafe, then they can do it. I'm not going to tell them to though because it's stupid.

Because it's stupid, rather than because you think it's a waste, or because you disagree? You really do treat it as a text/math adventure. I can see there's no reasoning with you.


edit: oh and I messed my math up, it's a 32% less damage over 4 arrows, a difference that matters even less.

[thinbear]

did they chenged the damage? Lv 1 strafe out damage max DS with fundemental:

Lv 1 Strafe: (122% *1.35 *.45 + 122%*.55) *4 shots = 564.86%
Max DS /w fund: (200% *1.35 *.45 + 200% *.55) *2shots = 463.00%

[JoeTang]

did they chenged the damage? Lv 1 strafe out damage max DS with fundemental:

Lv 1 Strafe: (122% *1.35 *.45 + 122%*.55) *4 shots = 564.86%
Max DS /w fund: (200% *1.35 *.45 + 200% *.55) *2shots = 463.00%

Level 1 Strafe does 94% damage per arrow, not 122%. If this were post-Restructuring, I would change everything, but it's not. There is absolutely no need to add Strafe. If you need level 1 Strafe because the animation change motivates you to play more, then clearly following a guide is not in your best interest.

[SixtySevenFrogs]

So now that Blizzard can crit it is probably better to just max it anyway. I'm now confused on whether or not to skip pierce early on and just use blizzard as my range mob attack and focus on the other damage boosting skills first for fourth job.

[thinbear]

Level 1 Strafe does 94% damage per arrow, not 122%. If this were post-Restructuring, I would change everything, but it's not. There is absolutely no need to add Strafe. If you need level 1 Strafe because the animation change motivates you to play more, then clearly following a guide is not in your best interest.

I see, thanks.
btw so this should be the skill table I looking at? http://www.southperry.net/showthread...&prefixid=KMST
(as of Dec 10 2010 version GMS)

[Dusk]

So now that Blizzard can crit it is probably better to just max it anyway. I'm now confused on whether or not to skip pierce early on and just use blizzard as my range mob attack and focus on the other damage boosting skills first for fourth job.

Yeah, in fact I'd max Blizzard before Arrow Eruption. Ranged mobbing is much more effective.

[McAwesomesauce]

Blizzard doesn't crit in GMS yet as far as I can tell, unless Evasion Boost counts.

Are you going to change the names of Dodge and Improved Fundamentals to Evasion Boost and Improved Basics?

[seraphryu]

ok... i'm wondering if i should use the event reset scroll to make concentrate as part of my main build since as mentioned before, it now stacks with attack potions.

at lvl 26 it lasts for 240 secs which means it has a 1 min CD when it runs out... not bad for an extra 31atk(35 at max) on top of whatever atk potion.

since SE is nerfed and priority has been given to bow expert, wouldn't it be feasible to get max BE, 26/max concentrate and put the remaining points into SE/hurricane?

being 140 and all i wouldn't go through CD hell if i just put points into it right away.

if only someone would crunch the numbers since i suck at these things.. basically 60-65atk(max BE/ 26-max CC) and low level SE/hurricane would beat out max BE and decently leveled hurricane/SE(right now mine's 20/10), right(?

at lvl 140 i have 62 SP.. so max BE, 26 CC, 1 hurricane, 1 dragon's breath, 4 SE.

the 1 min CD wouldn't be such a bother unless i'm soloing pap or something.

thoughts?

[IcyGreenTea]

Ok, I just finished my exams so I don't want to read a whole wall of texts, but what happens to people who don't want Final Attack no matter what?
I am stuck here because I was dumb enough to do the reset before I knew better... so far my understanding is that in order to add 2nd job skills you need to use up the SP for the 1st job skills and so on.
My sniper is lv 82, so I did the maths and there should be 36 SP for 3rd job skills, I have added SP in everything else except FA, therefore Im left with 57 SP, and I am unable to add SP to any 3rd job skills.
Now, I have been FA-less all my archer life and I was perfectly happy without FA, and since I have skimmed some posts, turned out nothing changed about it, I seriously don't want it.
Yet by the looks of it, I am being forced to max it before I can add SP into my 3rd job skills, or else I am stuck running around with no 3rd job skills.
Can someone give me an answer here? Do I just have to max it even with the cons of FA which was why some people skipped it in the first place?

[Tr0jan]

Does Hamstring works with bosses now? or is it just as useless as before?

[Salguod]

Ok, I just finished my exams so I don't want to read a whole wall of texts, but what happens to people who don't want Final Attack no matter what?
I am stuck here because I was dumb enough to do the reset before I knew better... so far my understanding is that in order to add 2nd job skills you need to use up the SP for the 1st job skills and so on.
My sniper is lv 82, so I did the maths and there should be 36 SP for 3rd job skills, I have added SP in everything else except FA, therefore Im left with 57 SP, and I am unable to add SP to any 3rd job skills.
Now, I have been FA-less all my archer life and I was perfectly happy without FA, and since I have skimmed some posts, turned out nothing changed about it, I seriously don't want it.
Yet by the looks of it, I am being forced to max it before I can add SP into my 3rd job skills, or else I am stuck running around with no 3rd job skills.
Can someone give me an answer here? Do I just have to max it even with the cons of FA which was why some people skipped it in the first place?

Final Attack
Final Attack at max activates 40% of the time. It does not delay any of your actions by any amount, but the arrow shot from Final Attack does come out at a delayed time from when it was activated. The arrow also provides its own bending to hit targets higher or lower, and does not overkill unless you lag. Final Attack not only benefits Arrow Blow, Double Shot, and your mob skill, it affects Strafe in third and Hurricane, Pierce, and Ultimate Strafe in fourth job as well so it will always benefit your character as opposed to pre-Big Bang where it was almost always a detriment.

I don't know what you were skimming, but it's right there in the first post with its own section telling you that it always benefits your character, so there is no reason not to get it. Not to mention, you actually need to add to it, since we actually end up with extra SP in 2nd job.

[IcyGreenTea]

I did read that, but I just don't feel good about having always been FA-less to suddenly being forced to max it

[Kanuhduh]

Blizzard doesn't crit in GMS yet as far as I can tell, unless Evasion Boost counts.

It most certainly does hit criticals. It's by far one of my favorite skills now. Kills just as fast as using Iron Arrow, but gives the added freeze bonus.