Miracle Time Possibly Rigged?

[Jazeon]

If the definition of rigged is that the rates were abysmal then we can all agree.
I think the biggest problem is that compared to other miracle times in the past this was a horrible experience for a majority.
The expectation was to have an experience similar to previous miracle times and regardless of some people's luck the majority of players found the event to be quite lacking.

The question is why was it different shortly after the introduction of newer cubes that were supposed to be better (at least I thought they were supposed to be)? The fact that so many people are crying out means something, but whether nexon will address this, imo would require a large outcry that would be impossible to ignore.

[Question]

If the definition of rigged is that the rates were abysmal then we can all agree.
I think the biggest problem is that compared to other miracle times in the past this was a horrible experience for a majority.
The expectation was to have an experience similar to previous miracle times and regardless of some people's luck the majority of players found the event to be quite lacking.

The question is why was it different shortly after the introduction of newer cubes that were supposed to be better (at least I thought they were supposed to be)? The fact that so many people are crying out means something, but whether nexon will address this, imo would require a large outcry that would be impossible to ignore.

you cant expect similar run ..... ok I go casino and gamble I won 1,000$ let say and the odd was 1/100 chance I hit the lucky run after 10 run I got lucky cool..


now I wanna go casino again..... I wanna try another 10 run do you think I would have chance to win that same amount again in 10 run? no...... it unlikely...

you can... but sadly the result wont be similar run... and if you try again you probably still win nothing again... and again

[KhainiWest]

not really... it just that most ppl are unlucky on this miracle time.... then can you explain why some people in this miracle time got so many legendry's in a few cubes?

it just happen that last miracle cube player was a bit more lucky...

guy cubes rate is not even 10% ... even on double miracle time base is probably 4% highest

ok let say you trying to land for 10-12 star ok the odd of passing them is 10% chance... some ppl got lucky and hit in 10-20 try or less other ppl got unlucky and can take them 20-50 time to pass one slot

my friend had fail 59 clean slate 10% in a row..... and that is 10% ok... now if cube is 4% and that is double miracle time rate .... and I expect you can fail atleast 100+ in a row is possible cuz it 4%

it just luck man... you can always get best result in miracle time other wise nexon would lose money that how rate of probability work

When you have the majority complaining and the minority trying to justify with "stories" then it's clear what the proportions are. The rates were much higher last miracle time, that much is clear, which is why this one was hyped up, because we requested a repeat of the event for those results, which were majority positive.

You're wrong, per usual.

[Jazeon]

you cant expect similar run ..... ok I go casino and gamble I won 1,000$ let say and the odd was 1/100 chance I hit the lucky run after 10 run I got lucky cool..


now I wanna go casino again..... I wanna try another 10 run do you think I would have chance to win that same amount again in 10 run? no...... it unlikely...

you can... but sadly the result wont be similar run... and if you try again you probably still win nothing again... and again

So basically you are saying that the majority was just "unlucky" this time around. It is plausible and it gives nexon enough ammo to provide reasonable doubt, although this will set a new standard concerning miracle time because iirc all previous events like this had generally good results hence why people looked forward to it.

[Question]

When you have the majority complaining and the minority trying to justify with "stories" then it's clear what the proportions are. The rates were much higher last miracle time, that much is clear, which is why this one was hyped up, because we requested a repeat of the event for those results, which were majority positive.

You're wrong, per usual.

super cube rate was higher yea ... I can say that I try red cube and it was horrible... but red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes... so I do expect the rate for them to be 1/2 the rate of super cubes and it most likely is true

if red cube rate was double on miracle it only make them the same rate as super miracle cube rate w/o the 2x..


Old cubes >>

Super cube Rate >>> Rate to epic 10%
Super cube Rate >>> epic to unique 5%
Super cube Rate >>> unique to legendary 2%

then red cube should be half of that rate

red cube >> rare to epic 5%
red cube >> epic to unique 2%
red cube >> unique to legendary 1%

if double miracle time make rate is 2x more ... than red cubes is just 2% this is why.... this miracle time isn't that great cuz it only 2% that is like having a super cube w/o 2x miracle

but then again red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes...

So basically you are saying that the majority was just "unlucky" this time around. It is plausible and it gives nexon enough ammo to provide reasonable doubt, although this will set a new standard concerning miracle time because iirc all previous events like this had generally good results hence why people looked forward to it.

yes majority is the right answer... go throw a dice you have 1/100 chance to legendary .... and 100,000 throw the die... how many ppl would hit 1/100? ... probably only 1% will hit that number

[SaptaZapta]

The difference to the casino example is that casino payouts are real money, which the casino does not have an infinite supply of. If they paid out more than they earned, they'd go out of business.

However, cubing payout is just bits of data, which cost Nexon nothing to generate. They could give everyone good results and not lose a thing. There might be concerns about in-game balance, and such, but that's a whole different topic.

As it is, by giving people poor results, they discouraged people from buying cubes. I'm sure that the total cubes used (and bought!) on the second Miracle Time fell far below expectations, after the midnight session warned people off. That's not how you run an event that's supposed to make people crash the Cash Shop in their lust for more cubes. (Would have been typical Nexon sneakiness to make the midnight session give good results but the afternoon one fail, which causes me to think this "rigging" or "scam" is more stupidity than malice).

[qtpie]

I think nobody disagrees with that.
And if they'd announced that it was solely a bonus cube event, people would have invested only in Carved cubes and been happy with their results.
(They'd still peach and beg for a regular potential event, of course, but at least they wouldn't complain about being "scammed").

Yeah, I was just supporting my claim that miracle time itself wasn't rigged. I say the new cubes themselves are the problem. BRING BACK THE SUPER CUBES!!! Moreover, this was a very rare event because I never got the chance to use bonus cubes during miracle time because they never coincided and it was a nice experience :o

[KhainiWest]

super cube rate was higher yea ... I can say that I try red cube and it was horrible... but red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes... so I do expect the rate for them to be 1/2 the rate of super cubes and it most likely is true

if red cube rate was double on miracle it only make them the same rate as super miracle cube rate w/o the 2x..


Old cubes >>

Super cube Rate >>> Rate to epic 10%
Super cube Rate >>> epic to unique 5%
Super cube Rate >>> unique to legendary 2%

then red cube should be half of that rate

red cube >> rare to epic 5%
red cube >> epic to unique 2%
red cube >> unique to legendary 1%

if double miracle time make rate is 2x more ... than red cubes is just 2% this is why.... this miracle time isn't that great cuz it only 2% that is like having a super cube w/o 2x miracle

but then again red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes...



yes majority is the right answer... go throw a dice you have 1/100 chance to legendary .... and 100,000 throw the die... how many ppl would hit 1/100? ... probably only 1% will hit that number

So you are saying you don't think nexon shouldn't compensate that low base to begin with? Or better yet, why do they even exist? Frankly I don't know the variants of cubes or their purpose because it's beyond ridiculous you have like 8 inferior options to the super miracle cubes.

Either way, it is not a "unlucky" issue, it's a facade that's only success was based on the reputation of the previously hosted events.

[Question]

The difference to the casino example is that casino payouts are real money, which the casino does not have an infinite supply of. If they paid out more than they earned, they'd go out of business.

However, cubing payout is just bits of data, which cost Nexon nothing to generate. They could give everyone good results and not lose a thing. There might be concerns about in-game balance, and such, but that's a whole different topic.

As it is, by giving people poor results, they discouraged people from buying cubes. I'm sure that the total cubes used (and bought!) on the second Miracle Time fell far below expectations, after the midnight session warned people off. That's not how you run an event that's supposed to make people crash the Cash Shop in their lust for more cubes. (Would have been typical Nexon sneakiness to make the midnight session work but the afternoon one fail, which causes me to think this "rigging" or "scam" is more stupidity than malice).

I still say it unlucky run... it just like casino... the rate is just so low....

you have 1/100 chance to hit legendary... if 100,000 people throw a dice .... or cubes.... how many ppl do you think will get legendary? .....

So you are saying you don't think nexon shouldn't compensate that low base to begin with? Or better yet, why do they even exist? Frankly I don't know the variants of cubes or their purpose because it's beyond ridiculous you have like 8 inferior options to the super miracle cubes.

Either way, it is not a "unlucky" issue, it's a facade that's only success was based on the reputation of the previously hosted events.

if 5 player got 15 star in 10 try today from 14 star tyrant.... do you believe that same 5 player can get that same result.... again? tomorrow?

[KhainiWest]

I still say it unlucky run... it just like casino... the rate is just so low....

you have 1/100 chance to hit legendary... if 100,000 people throw a dice .... or cubes.... how many ppl do you think will get legendary? .....

You keep making this comparison to a casino but I don't know of a casino that offers 2x rates, and have past events showing people majority of winning on certain days. Your context isn't applicable.

If you want to continue this frame of mind, why the f`uck are you playing a casino under a facade of being a kids game, with no payout outside of the game, yet just as costly?

[Polantaris]

It's a surprise because people remember previous Miracle Times as being really good.
People wouldn't have been begging for Miracle Time if they remembered them as a scam.
Whether it's because the old cubes were better, or because previous Miracle Times were more than 2x regular upgrade probability, I don't know. But they were good. This new one was crap.

I didn't mean that it shouldn't be a surprise that the event was bad, but that they chose their words wisely to make it sound like it would be more amazing than it was.

[Question]

You keep making this comparison to a casino but I don't know of a casino that offers 2x rates, and have past events showing people majority of winning on certain days. Your context isn't applicable.

If you want to continue this frame of mind, why the f`uck are you playing a casino under a facade of being a kids game, with no payout outside of the game, yet just as costly?

if I throw a coins... which is 50/50 does it mean I always get 50% chance getting a head? .... no sadly I can get all tail... that how probability work...

cube is similar to casino... but you don't win anything it just a game of casino... if nexon wear to give out money to you guy for getting legendary then it is casino style but it not exact the same thing but it still similar to casino...

ANYTHING THAT HAS PROBABLITY AND THAT COST MONEY IS IT LIKE CASINO

if I get a tyrant to 15 star from 10 star in 10 try .... does that mean my next tyrant should be same result?

[Simcaz]

if I throw a coins... which is 50/50 does it mean I always get 50% chance getting a head? .... no sadly I can get all tail... that how probability work...

cube is similar to casino... but you don't win anything it just a game of casino... if nexon wear to give out money to you guy for getting legendary then it is casino style but it not exact the same thing but it still similar to casino...

ANYTHING THAT HAS PROBABLITY AND THAT COST MONEY IS IT LIKE CASINO

if I get a tyrant to 15 star from 10 star in 10 try .... does that mean my next tyrant should be same result?

His point was that a casino don't offer 2x rates, which nexon does by having the miracle time event

[Question]

His point was that a casino don't offer 2x rates, which nexon does by having the miracle time event

they can offer 2x but not in the same ... way if you place your bet on one spot ur rate is one x but if you bet more than one spot your rate is double chance the wining but in the end casino still win more

increasing rate by 2x of a small % doesn't really make anything diff much...

[KhainiWest]

I
if 5 player got 15 star in 10 try today from 14 star tyrant.... do you believe that same 5 player can get that same result.... again? tomorrow?

I expect the rates to be proportionally the same as the previous miracle time, which did not have a fraction of people complaining as we do now. Again your example is out of context and extremely exaggerated.

if I throw a coins... which is 50/50 does it mean I always get 50% chance getting a head? .... no sadly I can get all tail... that how probability work...

cube is similar to casino... but you don't win anything it just a game of casino... if nexon wear to give out money to you guy for getting legendary then it is casino style but it not exact the same thing but it still similar to casino...

ANYTHING THAT HAS PROBABLITY AND THAT COST MONEY IS IT LIKE CASINO

if I get a tyrant to 15 star from 10 star in 10 try .... does that mean my next tyrant should be same result?

Honest question, are you reading anything I"m saying? Any argument of probability is worthless here. It has no relevance. None, zilch, everything you have posted currently is irrelevant, all of your examples are exaggerated extremes, and you're trying to justify a companies actions because of your addiction.

The outcry from this miracle time and the previous one are drastically different. So you have two ways to go about this;

1) The previous miracle time, everyone was lucky, this miracle time, everyone was unlucky. Which is proportionally almost impossible, without a specific factor being drastically changed. Even by your own admittance, if every player flipped a coin and all of them got heads(good results), then a year later, the same con artist comes to you again saying it's a repeat of said event, where you flip the coin again, and majority gets tails, that's ridiculous.

2) Continue to blame the base cube rates which is essentially a sh`itty version of the previous miracle time with essentially false advertising. They used a good reputation to build on, then crushed it with a lot of players disappointed.

There is no legitimate argument in "well it works like a casino, so results vary", when it's supposedly supposed to boost results, and did not do so in a method that was remotely noticeable. So pick your poison already and hammer it down.

[qtpie]

maybe we can all reveal this issue by having someone use enough cubes (i say 2000 is good enough) to figure out the probability of tiering up using binomial distribution. Then we can see how greatly miracle time affects normal cubes.

[Question]

I expect the rates to be proportionally the same as the previous miracle time, which did not have a fraction of people complaining as we do now. Again your example is out of context and extremely exaggerated.




Honest question, are you reading anything I"m saying? Any argument of probability is worthless here. It has no relevance. None, zilch, everything you have posted currently is irrelevant, all of your examples are exaggerated extremes, and you're trying to justify a companies actions because of your addiction.

The outcry from this miracle time and the previous one are drastically different. So you have two ways to go about this;

1) The previous miracle time, everyone was lucky, this miracle time, everyone was unlucky. Which is proportionally almost impossible, without a specific factor being drastically changed. Even by your own admittance, if every player flipped a coin and all of them got heads(good results), then a year later, the same con artist comes to you again saying it's a repeat of said event, where you flip the coin again, and majority gets tails, that's ridiculous.

2) Continue to blame the base cube rates which is essentially a sh`itty version of the previous miracle time with essentially false advertising. They used a good reputation to build on, then crushed it with a lot of players disappointed.

There is no legitimate argument in "well it works like a casino, so results vary", when it's supposedly supposed to boost results, and did not do so in a method that was remotely noticeable. So pick your poison already and hammer it down.

I know y last miracle time is better....

Super cube rate is 4% last miracle time.... ofc most ppl would have better getting legendary...

this time red cube miracle time is 2% ofc I expect this run to be horrible

alright im done chating here... in my mind you can say what you want I still believe it just a unlucky run... and again I expect the next miracle time will be the same result as today unless nexon increase the rate of the cubes

[kayeyearekay]

casinos are required by nevada gaming commission to pay out (up to ~90) for "Slot Machines" as example of returns. the minimum profit the house gets each day of operation, per slot machine, is at least 10% of the money put in.

then you get into the fine print of the "rigged" if a machine turns "cold" (un-used for 4mins) the casino can reset the payout.

Its actually pretty interesting reading into gambling laws/requirements; since maple's down.... google a link ^_^

[KhainiWest]

I know y last miracle time is better....

Super cube rate is 4% last miracle time.... ofc most ppl would have better getting legendary...

this time red cube miracle time is 2% ofc I expect this run to be horrible

alright im done chating here... in my mind you can say what you want I still believe it just a unlucky run... and again I expect the next miracle time will be the same result as today unless nexon increase the rate of the cubes

You went with point 2 then claim its based on unlucky circumstances. That's illogical

[Marksman Bryan]

maybe we can all reveal this issue by having someone use enough cubes (i say 2000 is good enough) to figure out the probability of tiering up using binomial distribution. Then we can see how greatly miracle time affects normal cubes.

good idea!
gift me the cubes and I'll do the math