Character Card System

[Chameleonic]

With 15 character slots available we should have at least 3 Card decks.

[FabledGumbo]

why would it be out the window, what is still unknown?

and i got to test the tri-warrior set too, based on the wording, it should be like bucc effect.

What are you referring to being out the window? You mean that post I made in the other thread that suggested that the new pirate class card wouldn't have dex for its card effect? I just figured that the weapon itself looked like a knuckle, which would imply that it's strength based. That, and buccaneers/thunderbreakers are the only strength based pirates. If it really is strength based it wouldn't make any sense for the card to give flat dex since it's being added after KMS removed secondary stats. Since it does seem to be following some kind of pattern I wouldn't be surprised if it did give dex for a card effect, but I really think there's only 3 possible ways that could happen:

1. It uses some kind of melee knuckle weapon but is dex based anyway
2. That purple thing that looks like a knuckle is actually a gun or some other kind of dex based weapon
3. Pirates are getting reworked to all be dex based

That's my take on it, anyway. Unless of course you were referring to something else still being unknown and this entire wall of text is totally off topic

[ShinkuDragon]

That's my take on it, anyway. Unless of course you were referring to something else still being unknown and this entire wall of text is totally off topic

eeh, pretty much lol

but I think the jury's still out on how the bucc/pally/IL cards work.

i meant that.

[FabledGumbo]

eeh, pretty much lol

My bad. I just thought the math wasn't all there as to explain why shadow partner damage added from the buccaneer is your level times the bonus times three. Or how any of the card bonuses came to their numbers since they seem to work somewhat arbitrarily. It sounds like some of the math has been fleshed out, though. If I'm understanding correctly and a level 200 Paladin card gives 2 damage per level on your range, it would give 400 damage to another level 200 on their range. Assuming your class can do about 4000% to a single target (that looks pretty close to average according to the tables I've looked at for most classes), that means that a level 200 paladin card would give another level 200 character approximately 8000 more damage per second, which is practically nothing to the kind of person that would have 2 level 200s.

Unless I'm mistaken, the IL/Pally/Bucc cards suck really bad, which I guess was the point.

[ShinkuDragon]

My bad. I just thought the math wasn't all there as to explain why shadow partner damage added from the buccaneer is your level times the bonus times three. Or how any of the card bonuses came to their numbers since they seem to work somewhat arbitrarily. It sounds like some of the math has been fleshed out, though. If I'm understanding correctly and a level 200 Paladin card gives 2 damage per level on your range, it would give 400 damage to another level 200 on their range. Assuming your class can do about 4000% to a single target (that looks pretty close to average according to the tables I've looked at for most classes), that means that a level 200 paladin card would give another level 200 character approximately 8000 more damage per second, which is practically nothing to the kind of person that would have 2 level 200s.

Unless I'm mistaken, the IL/Pally/Bucc cards suck really bad, which I guess was the point.

that's correct about the pally, however, i'm thinking it's not THAT bad, considering all the other effects out there, but it does seem going for applicability rather than damage skills to be the better choice.

as for shadow partner:

your damage+bucc bonus
shadow partner divides that in half, and then adds the bonus again, allowing for a maximum of +3000 damage (lol) which is nothing, but if you can on every hit it should make your SP hit 2000 above 699999 which is something i guess?

bucc card really sucks lol.

[FabledGumbo]

that's correct about the pally, however, i'm thinking it's not THAT bad, considering all the other effects out there, but it does seem going for applicability rather than damage skills to be the better choice.

It's not a tiny amount of damage, but that's a huge amount of trouble for an 8000 damage per second increase considering how trivial that's going to be to a level 200. I assume the bucc card is only slightly worse, considering the bucc card should come out ahead on skills with less than a 300% damage multiplier. I know that's a pretty limited number of skills, but some hurricanes would actually do better with that (I imagine mechanic siege mode benefits more from the bucc card than the paladin card).

Regardless, my primary concern is character slots considering my Aran is my only character that I don't have for some kind of link buff/card bonus/blessing and I still only have one spare slot in spite of getting every free slot I've had the opportunity to get.

As for prioritization, my personal preference has been S Set > Pirate set > Warrior set > individual card bonuses. It sounds like the warrior set bonus isn't that good, either, but it's pretty convenient for me to get and I don't really have a better alternative at the moment.

[Grey]

My bad. I just thought the math wasn't all there as to explain why shadow partner damage added from the buccaneer is your level times the bonus times three.

In my tests at least, the damage increase to Mirror Image was exactly my level, or 210 rather, with Empress Might, times 6, (3 from Marauder Card + 3 from Thunder Breaker Card).

Where you're getting the extra x3 from?

[ShinkuDragon]

In my tests at least, the damage increase to Mirror Image was exactly my level, or 210 rather, with Empress Might, times 6, (3 from Marauder Card + 3 from Thunder Breaker Card).

Where you're getting the extra x3 from?

he is technically correct, if you're basing it from the normal non-bucc'd damage that causes the shadow partner. otherwise he probably made it up.

[FabledGumbo]

he is technically correct, if you're basing it from the normal non-bucc'd damage that causes the shadow partner. otherwise he probably made it up.

I'm just going off of what I remember of MrTouchNGo's numbers dealing with the buccaneer card and shadow partner earlier on in the thread. I don't have a buccaneer or a shadower to test it personally, I just remember him stating that it didn't make any sense.

[Stereo]

why would it be out the window, what is still unknown?

and i got to test the tri-warrior set too, based on the wording, it should be like bucc effect.

I'm gonna try to run some numbers on the 3-warrior set (since I have the 8%...) with Paladin bonus, on my level 40 Fighter.

24 blessing + 4 atk sets + 21 atk rose [lowest atk weapon I had on hand - should use a pico pico hammer] = 49 atk -> 117~588 + 60 (Paladin is 1.5*level) + 240 (2997 base hp, rounds up) = 417 ~ 888

hp: 5490 = (2997+230 equips+1200 cards) * (1+.2 hp boost +.04 drk card)


observed range with normal attacks on octopi (just to get a baseline - as a 100% attack, any methods of adding damage should be equal)
399 ~ 815
No anomalies here, no real surprise.

Move along to Power Strike - 280%, so if the numbers are added straight to range, damage should be 1167~2486 (less with pdr). If they're actually fake-added to range, and actually just added to damage, 627~1946 (again, less with pdr).

Consequently, this is proof that the warrior bonus is also added to damage after skills, and is faked in the range.

Power Strike

I'm gonna go grab a Pico Pico and see if that makes the problem of Paladin damage tractable. That screenshot is literally the minimum damage that should be possible if Paladin damage is added to your base range, and I never hit lower, but I also never hit higher than 1850.

EDIT: Pico-Pico Powerstrikes
196~281 + 60 + 240 = 496~581 displayed
#1: both added after skills: 763 ~ 978
#2: Paladin before, warrior set after skills: 861 ~ 1075

observed: 891 ~ 1100

Houston... we have a problem. Time to make new assumptions.
#3: Warrior set after skills *and* wdef: 885 ~ 1099.3 (plausible but rounds funny)
#4: Mob's pdr is not 10%: observations dictate between 93.1% and 92%, so if PDR is actually 7%: 889~1111

edit: looking back, first one fits up with a slight anomaly earlier.


My current hypothesis is
Paladins bonus: actually added to base range
Buccs/Warrior set bonus: added after damage calculation is complete [possibly even after crits?]

[ShinkuDragon]

My current hypothesis is
Paladins bonus: actually added to base range
Buccs/Warrior set bonus: added after damage calculation is complete [possibly even after crits?][/color]

i got this, let me open storage space and everything, my high base (i think 30k-ish) hp plus sacrifice and beholder should make the difference clear. from what i got, just from bucc and pally though, both your assumptions are correct. (and yes, after crits)

gonna try to get SS's i guess, but this new computer is blargh for that.

EDIT: sorry for the multiple posts.

these are the effects i have:

no set at all

Spoiler

set used

Spoiler

new range

Spoiler

6269-3857=2412 added bonus
(2412/8)*100=30150, which matches my expected base HP (the actual number i don't know, but i stopped washing with 30013 or so base hp
min range +2412= what the SS shows, so so far it matches my table perfectly, then:

[ShinkuDragon]

@Stereo;
read above post first.

math is on the table to the side:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

it matches my expectation, of being added to the very end of your damage, after critical

[Necrobumper]

So... What is the best setup for dps-er like Phantom or Mercedes? Sorry, I'm a newb here...

[Dark Link]

Level 200 Paladin card confirmation for those who doubt without SS proof.

[Sephie]

So the 10% Base HP added to damage is just like Buccaneer bonus? (Damage added after all calculations). Apparently it doesn't overcome defenses like PDR or Super WDEF up since I still do 1 damage.

Buccaneer bonus and 10% HP -> Damage seems to be better for classes with a lot of hits/second while Paladin is good for anyone (I/L good for any mage).

[Dark Link]

So the 10% Base HP added to damage is just like Buccaneer bonus? (Damage added after all calculations). Apparently it doesn't overcome defenses like PDR or Super WDEF up since I still do 1 damage.

Buccaneer bonus and 10% HP -> Damage seems to be better for classes with a lot of hits/second while Paladin is good for anyone (I/L good for any mage).

No, the 10% Base HP set bonus adds to range.

[Even]

So... What is the best setup for dps-er like Phantom or Mercedes? Sorry, I'm a newb here...

I guess this would be the best option for most people then:

Deck 1: Jett lvl 120, Cannoneer lvl 120, Mechanic lvl 120 (6% ignore defense, 15% buff duration increase, 8% summon duration, 15 all stat 5% hp/mp (link skill), Jett's core (link skill), 4% exp lose reduction S rank +700 HP, +700 MP, +3 ATK, +3 M.ATK, +3% damage to bosses)
Deck 2: Mikhail lvl 120, Dark Knight level 120, Demon Slayer lvl 120 (4% weapon defense, Stance (link skill), level 30 koc buff, 4% hp, 3% Status resistance, boss dmg (link skill), 8% base hp into damage(range(?)) & S rank +700 HP, +700 MP, +3 ATK, +3 M.ATK, +3% damage to bosses)

And you should replace dark knight with kaiser (for the link skill, I obviously dont know what his card bonus is yet)

Total bonus: 1400 HP/MP, 6 M.Att/W.Att, 16% damage to bosses, 6% ignore defense, 15% buff duration, 8% summon duration, 15 all stat 9% HP 5% MP, Jett bonus, 4% lose reduction, 4% Weapon Defense bonus, Stance 50% of the time, 30 koc buff, 3% Status resistance & 8% base hp into damage. All this for only 6 char slots.

You would only need 7 slots if you want to get mikhail koc buff (since he obviously cant give his own koc buff to himself)

I dont think there is any more profitable card deck lineup unless you already have 100% ignore defense.

[Dark Link]

I dont think there is any more profitable card deck lineup unless you already have 100% ignore defense.

Replace Jett with Bucc.
Replace Mikhail with Paladin.

I just made it better.

[Grey]

No, the 10% Base HP set bonus adds to range.

The Bucc card appears in range too, it's just not actually there. I haven't really done much testing on the warrior set myself, but I'd assume since both variables are something2damX, they add to the same thing in the same way.

[Dark Link]

Then we require damage testing. I would do it, but I'm terrible with Maple Math lol.