To those for the Aliens/Jesters/LHC Nerf

[Words]

Yeah but if you got KSed, you didn't have to train there, which is what my point is. And you kind of proved my point..the spots been available from the start, its up to the individual to train where they like..

If you didn't have to train there because of ksers before the nerf, you don't need to train there now. So what's the problem?

Not many want that? I can't say how many want or don't want it, but In my experience I've seen what I consider to be a decent amount of people complaining about how easy it is to level now. That suggests they wish it to be "harder" which really just equates to more time-consuming.

So I see a few people have this as the reasoning.

I love how ambiguous you are so that you're never wrong.

Also forgive me but in what way am I a hypocrite? I didn't say I wish to train at places like Jesters/LHC exclusively, just that the option being rendered practically useless is irritating.

You weren't complaining about lack of fast training spots. You were complaining about the removal of THE fastest training spots. The same spot that didn't allow many people to train because of lack of channels and maps. The same spot that rendered every other map useless. And then at the end say that you need variety. Get it?
Hard to tell what you meant and what really bothers you since depending on what you want to prove your argument changes a bit.

Also, viable=/= stupidly fast training spot.

[SoR0XaS]

Yes, ridiculously fast levelling at haunted mansion and LHC was CLEARLY intended, considering it's not in any other versions.

lots of areas to level, and everyone spends all their time in one place. It was CLEARLY unbalanced, and anybody who doesn't see that is spoiled and stupid. Just suck it up and train at the multitude of other areas available.

I'm glad they are least TRYING to take steps to balance the game out, rather than leaving it broken as it was. People have been spoiled and now they are whining that they actually have to work, it's pathetic.

My point exactly.

[Jamesie]

I'm not familiar with the quest rewards, what was preventing you from doing it before?

Hunting 200 etc. items with party play HP and spawn is infinitely more tedious and time consuming than it is with regular mob HP and spawn. Not to mention if you're a "poor" player, you can't even think about finishing.

What makes it a power creep? I don't understand. Because even with Lhc, starting from about 140-150+ leveling slows down a lot. Now that we have a 250 cap, as I'm sure you all know, it will take some exorbitant amount of time to reach cap. I'm perfectly fine with this, but why must the lower level training be slowed down as well? (this is my main issue with jesters/aliens and LHC being removed). I don't know about other people but I certainly don't find the lower levels entertaining/fun.

I don't think I'd have a problem with your suggestion either regarding a limit to aliens and such, At least the option would be there still. Regarding party quests, I understand that. Can I ask then, have you or anyone else for that matter, have seen an increase in party questing? I don't count MPE, or Dimension Invade as those seem to be purely for experience.

Because you're buffing monsters that were perfectly okay until this "god monster" came along. Now I can agree that LHC leveled monsters need a bit off a buff, but I wouldn't have it be that large anyways. It would still likely be slower than LHC at 140-150 (before it was nerfed, obviously).

I wouldn't call it slowing down lower leveling, I would call it fixing it. As Zelkova pointed out, Jesters and other Haunted Mansion monsters were clearly missed by Big Bang EXP changes. They weren't the only ones, Galloperas and Truckers used to give an insane amount of EXP too. However, Nexon realized it wasn't right and nerfed those. The feedback was similar and people eventually moved on. I can't comment on Aliens because I don't even know what crack they were on.

I haven't seen a drastic increase in PQ'ers partially because I haven't looked too much and because it's only been a couple of days since the changes. Mind you, it took awhile to realize that Aliens were broken EXP. I'm also on Khaini so I don't tend to see that many people to begin with. The change to people PQ'ing more isn't going to be instantaneous and will take some time. Also, LudiPQ is pretty crazy EXP for the levels it's for so doing that PQ with people of similar levels until the cows come home is going to be pretty crazy for leveling. I would reckon it'd be faster than training at Jesters since with similarly leveled people you get some ~50%+ per PQ.

[Sephie]

I was half-joking when I said that, and yet there are people who do think like that, and want "leveling to mean something again". For that to happen everyone must deal with what they believe the rate of experience should be.

You're addressing the wrong people with an argument that is completely misdirected.

What I'm trying tell to you and point out is that those aren't the people you are talking to and they aren't the people we are trying to defend. They aren't relevant and it doesn't strengthen your cause.

That is why I say if you honestly keep thinking that way, you will never understand.

[KhainiWest]

The problem isn't people craving the feeling of old MS. It's the fact, proportionally, those monsters hp/exp ratio was much like a level 10 training at level 50 monsters. It was an oversight, not an intention, complaining that it's fixed is essentially asking for "fortunate" oversights to be ignored. Then you suggest that the leveling ratio should constantly be at that pace? Level cap is considered worthless right now as the end game content is completely non-existent. Your suggestion would hold more ground if there was actually intended content specifically for those who hit level cap.

EDIT: (Although the level 250/5th job now does in fact add a reason to hit level cap besides prestige, as of right now the only addition for those past 200 is additional training area's).

[Dark Link]

As I've said in the Maple subreddit, it opens up the realm for other options now, instead of everyone just bolting for the same old "Zombies -> Scarecrows -> Jesters -> Aliens -> LHC" route.

Also the fact that unless you were at those training spots you were "doing it wrong and you should feel bad".

[66alex66]

Making people spend more time at lower levels gives them incentive to explore the world, enjoy the game a little more, maybe do some quests that give exp. If you speed through those levels and try to do the story lines at 150+ it's not gonna be fun, at all. That's why people complain that there's no end content, because they blow through everything in the lower levels, then try to do something that's appropriate for their levels and find out there's nothing for them to do. I don't understand why you call every other place a BAD place to train? You don't realize that aliens are just better? It's not that all those "bad" places are outdated, it's that some of the content is out of balance, change your perspective a little. This has nothing to do with being selfish, and nothing to do with nexon trying to make the game a living hell for people.

[huehuehue]

Us having the party play mobs. I could have done them, but it would probably take months since you need like 200 mob drops.

It doesn't actually take that long to do the questline. I remember it took maybe 2 hrs for me to get all the drops and another ~30mins to kill the grey vultures. You can also buy packs of 200 drops in the FM.

[Shads]

I liked how these places are nerfed (oh and a first note, I haven't been reading all these posts so if someone posted something similar, oh well). Aliens ruined masteria for me, I thought it was going to be a simple event that was going to last a few months, now here I am sitting still trying to find ways AROUND the place. LHC, this was my whole conversations there "grats, grats, GET THE KANNA, grats, IT'S A BISHOP KICK THE PHANTOM (which was most the time me, even if the bishop was level 120 and I was 179)" it was stupendous how little vocabulary we were using. So that would be a point on the community. Jestsers, yeah masteria has been ruined for me, I'm only coming back here when I need warrior pots or mana bulls or something. and if these places were full? not really many decent places to train between level 50 to level 70 for me. I could deal with 1-40 and 70-80 (90 to 100 always kills me). The sheer fact that no one was at pqs killed me too because, what if I wanted some pq item? not getting that ever.

So here's the basis of what I'm trying to say: LHC there was no communication, just mindlessly kill. Masteria had been ruined for me.

[MuscleWizard]

because now people will actually explore maple world

[RenmazuoDX]

It is my opinion that LHC was a cesspool, filled with rude ass people or mules or mindless killing machines or just people who didnt care about anyone but themselves. About 2 weeks before Unleashed, I tryed to go there with a decently equipped 115 BaM on a night dureing the middle of the week just to get a few levels in I hoped. About 7 or 8 of the channels were filled with people but it was either half of them muleing on a rope while 2 or 3 killed or all of them leeching on a rope and 1 doing all the killing. I asked and asked each channel that I went by and saw people "any room?", Id either get a no sorry or no reply and just shrug it off. Had that happen on several other chars of mine in the past as well, lucky as hell if you ever got in a party in that area sometimes, especially dureing 2x. Ive also seen in the past, LHC being filled to the brim with hackers its a horrible sight if I ever saw one.

My point is that place was once a nice place to go to, filled with people who wanted to work hard and get somewhere but over time it has attracted and many of maple's scum and selfish, egotistical, lazy, rude and vile players that it possibly can and its just shameful. And dureing 2x that place was an absolute nightmare, people makeing parties in ch 1 just to go ks other parties, people training peacefully in one of the channels 1 minute and the next, being invaded by a bunch of random people who only want whatever they can get their hands on, evil vile people who dont care about anyone but themselves and who will stop at nothing to attain their goals no matter the means. People need to get out and explore the world of maple more, its better this way, maybe we will see the free market filled with more varieties of scrolls and equips and such once people realize that this was for a good reason and to get up and do something else and work hard to get where they wanna go once more.

And aliens/jesters/crows, rarely would I ever go to those places because it was rather stressful at times and I hated being in a place where I constantly had to be on alert and paranoid that someone else would come and try to harrass me or take my channel, even when it wasnt 2x that place had a ton of people going to and from it. Hated when guildmates went there too because sooner or later I knew I might have to come drive some ksers away or some crap.

So hopefully this will encourage people to train at new spots and find what works for them and show people that there is so much more to maple than just a few silly maps, theres a whole world just waiting to be explored.

[FatesFavor]

now that I think more about it, for those of you saying it will get people to "explore" more of the world, I doubt it. Many people will just move on to the best alternative to jesters/aliens/LHC. That isn't exploring. That is exactly the same thing without the higher experience. Nothing really changes except the game inbalance, which I'm not arguing against. obviously something had to change (I simply would have preferred other places getting buffed rather than aliens/jesters etc getting nerfed, which many people disagree with, but thats my opinion.)

it was pretty much the same deal in the old days as it was with aliens
WR, pig beach ,sniping newts and more

Exactly my point ^

If you didn't have to train there because of ksers before the nerf, you don't need to train there now. So what's the problem?




I love how ambiguous you are so that you're never wrong.



You weren't complaining about lack of fast training spots. You were complaining about the removal of THE fastest training spots. The same spot that didn't allow many people to train because of lack of channels and maps. The same spot that rendered every other map useless. And then at the end say that you need variety. Get it?
Hard to tell what you meant and what really bothers you since depending on what you want to prove your argument changes a bit.

Also, viable=/= stupidly fast training spot.

Why does someone have to be wrong and someone have to be a right? My main question in making this thread was why people were for the nerf. In other words, why they think it was necessary. Their opinion. Nothing to do with right and wrong.

I guess I should of made that more clear, but that goes hand in hand with the removal of the fastest training spots. In my experience I had few problems training there, but I see why it was an issue. I didn't say I trained at those spots religiously, you're assuming I did. I'm not trying to prove anything, just giving my opinion on it. But alright, you've made your point clear. Let me ask you this then, do you have an issue with Hoh/sh? They are the same as LHC.

Hunting 200 etc. items with party play HP and spawn is infinitely more tedious and time consuming than it is with regular mob HP and spawn. Not to mention if you're a "poor" player, you can't even think about finishing.



Because you're buffing monsters that were perfectly okay until this "god monster" came along. Now I can agree that LHC leveled monsters need a bit off a buff, but I wouldn't have it be that large anyways. It would still likely be slower than LHC at 140-150 (before it was nerfed, obviously).

I wouldn't call it slowing down lower leveling, I would call it fixing it. As Zelkova pointed out, Jesters and other Haunted Mansion monsters were clearly missed by Big Bang EXP changes. They weren't the only ones, Galloperas and Truckers used to give an insane amount of EXP too. However, Nexon realized it wasn't right and nerfed those. The feedback was similar and people eventually moved on. I can't comment on Aliens because I don't even know what crack they were on.

I haven't seen a drastic increase in PQ'ers partially because I haven't looked too much and because it's only been a couple of days since the changes. Mind you, it took awhile to realize that Aliens were broken EXP. I'm also on Khaini so I don't tend to see that many people to begin with. The change to people PQ'ing more isn't going to be instantaneous and will take some time. Also, LudiPQ is pretty crazy EXP for the levels it's for so doing that PQ with people of similar levels until the cows come home is going to be pretty crazy for leveling. I would reckon it'd be faster than training at Jesters since with similarly leveled people you get some ~50%+ per PQ.

Oh that, yeah that certainly was a pain in the ass. For game balance, fair enough...though can you agree that Nexon let it go on for far too long? They let people get accustomed to that type of experience gain, then take it away without notice. If it was inbalanced all this time, which it was, why let it go on for so long? I guess I'm alone here in my wish for lower leveled monsters to get some increased gains then. I wouldn't expect it to, but certainly there should be some sort of increased activity? I just think that people will still go to the best alternatives grinding-wise rather than PQing, because the alternative spots are still likely faster. Or that, maybe people will have the same mindset thinking no one will go to PQ, and thus no one will be around for it.

You're addressing the wrong people with an argument that is completely misdirected.

What I'm trying tell to you and point out is that those aren't the people you are talking to and they aren't the people we are trying to defend. They aren't relevant and it doesn't strengthen your cause.

That is why I say if you honestly keep thinking that way, you will never understand.

My argument was mainly for those people, but in addition to that I wanted to get other peoples opinions. I apologize, I'm not very clear when it comes to expressing myself but I think you're too harped on a comment which wasn't directed towards you (since you don't share that belief.) And telling me I won't understand without telling me your reasoning, well of course I'm not going to understand, there's nothing to understand. I'm understanding other people fine, though.

The problem isn't people craving the feeling of old MS. It's the fact, proportionally, those monsters hp/exp ratio was much like a level 10 training at level 50 monsters. It was an oversight, not an intention, complaining that it's fixed is essentially asking for "fortunate" oversights to be ignored. Then you suggest that the leveling ratio should constantly be at that pace? Level cap is considered worthless right now as the end game content is completely non-existent. Your suggestion would hold more ground if there was actually intended content specifically for those who hit level cap.

EDIT: (Although the level 250/5th job now does in fact add a reason to hit level cap besides prestige, as of right now the only addition for those past 200 is additional training area's).

That much, I understand. Haven't known many players that care for balance, other than class balancing though. I wasn't really implying level cap btw, I meant higher lvls, which is in fact required for some bosses and such. That is what I meant by that. Not everyone considers level cap worthless either, so that isn't fair, and the point is moot now that we have 250. And with this new 250 cap, one can only hope/assume that more stuff for these higher levels are finally coming.

It is my opinion that LHC was a cesspool, filled with rude ass people or mules or mindless killing machines or just people who didnt care about anyone but themselves. About 2 weeks before Unleashed, I tryed to go there with a decently equipped 115 BaM on a night dureing the middle of the week just to get a few levels in I hoped. About 7 or 8 of the channels were filled with people but it was either half of them muleing on a rope while 2 or 3 killed or all of them leeching on a rope and 1 doing all the killing. I asked and asked each channel that I went by and saw people "any room?", Id either get a no sorry or no reply and just shrug it off. Had that happen on several other chars of mine in the past as well, lucky as hell if you ever got in a party in that area sometimes, especially dureing 2x. Ive also seen in the past, LHC being filled to the brim with hackers its a horrible sight if I ever saw one.

My point is that place was once a nice place to go to, filled with people who wanted to work hard and get somewhere but over time it has attracted and many of maple's scum and selfish, egotistical, lazy, rude and vile players that it possibly can and its just shameful. And dureing 2x that place was an absolute nightmare, people makeing parties in ch 1 just to go ks other parties, people training peacefully in one of the channels 1 minute and the next, being invaded by a bunch of random people who only want whatever they can get their hands on, evil vile people who dont care about anyone but themselves and who will stop at nothing to attain their goals no matter the means. People need to get out and explore the world of maple more, its better this way, maybe we will see the free market filled with more varieties of scrolls and equips and such once people realize that this was for a good reason and to get up and do something else and work hard to get where they wanna go once more.

And aliens/jesters/crows, rarely would I ever go to those places because it was rather stressful at times and I hated being in a place where I constantly had to be on alert and paranoid that someone else would come and try to harrass me or take my channel, even when it wasnt 2x that place had a ton of people going to and from it. Hated when guildmates went there too because sooner or later I knew I might have to come drive some ksers away or some crap.

So hopefully this will encourage people to train at new spots and find what works for them and show people that there is so much more to maple than just a few silly maps, theres a whole world just waiting to be explored.

I liked how these places are nerfed (oh and a first note, I haven't been reading all these posts so if someone posted something similar, oh well). Aliens ruined masteria for me, I thought it was going to be a simple event that was going to last a few months, now here I am sitting still trying to find ways AROUND the place. LHC, this was my whole conversations there "grats, grats, GET THE KANNA, grats, IT'S A BISHOP KICK THE PHANTOM (which was most the time me, even if the bishop was level 120 and I was 179)" it was stupendous how little vocabulary we were using. So that would be a point on the community. Jestsers, yeah masteria has been ruined for me, I'm only coming back here when I need warrior pots or mana bulls or something. and if these places were full? not really many decent places to train between level 50 to level 70 for me. I could deal with 1-40 and 70-80 (90 to 100 always kills me). The sheer fact that no one was at pqs killed me too because, what if I wanted some pq item? not getting that ever.

So here's the basis of what I'm trying to say: LHC there was no communication, just mindlessly kill. Masteria had been ruined for me.

@Star909 and RenmazuDX

I get where both of you are coming from and all..but doesn't that say a lot more about the community then it does about the place? There's a negative connotation because its a popular area, yeah, but the fault of that is not LHC itself, but the playerbase. The community. That said, how do you two feel about SH/HoH?

[SaptaZapta]

This nerf restored the game to what its creators, Nexon Korea, intend for it to be.

Nexon America had previously installed "shortcuts", believing (rightly or wrongly) that Americans are either too lazy or too dumb to play the game as it was intended: leveling through traveling around the world and doing quests, never "grinding" at the same map for more than a handful of levels.
Now they've decided that these shortcuts were a bad idea and turned the game into something it wasn't meant to be, so they removed them.

[Zerard]

...while Party quests, Guilds, Bossing, Socializing are the more fun aspects of Maple.

And guess what? All of those things you just listed can be used to help further your experience gain.

[Sephie]

This nerf restored the game to what its creators, Nexon Korea, intend for it to be.

Nexon America had previous installed "shortcuts", believing (rightly or wrongly) that Americans are either too lazy or too dumb to play the game as it was intended: leveling through traveling around the world and doing quests, never "grinding" at the same map for more than a handful of levels.
Now they've decided that these shortcuts were a bad idea and turned the game into something it wasn't meant to be, so they removed them.

My theory is that like a previous poster had said, the exp values of the mansion are preBB values. Also, Alien Cogs and ruined NLC was actually developed for pre-BB but was never rebalanced when they finally released it years later. So it was basically a lazy port and these "shortcuts" were just oversights.

That's my theory though. The other one some of us proposed was that Nexon was on some kind of crack that was out of this world and decided to bloat those aliens themselves.

[ShinkuDragon]

My theory is that like a previous poster had said, the exp values of the mansion are preBB values. Also, Alien Cogs and ruined NLC was actually developed for pre-BB but was never rebalanced when they finally released it years later. So it was basically a lazy port and these "shortcuts" were just oversights.

That's my theory though. The other one some of us proposed was that Nexon was on some kind of crack that was out of this world and decided to bloat those aliens themselves.

how do we make our new area a success?
give the mobs a pomegranateton of exp so that everyone wants to go there
GENIUS JOHNSON!

[Jamesie]

My theory is that like a previous poster had said, the exp values of the mansion are preBB values. Also, Alien Cogs and ruined NLC was actually developed for pre-BB but was never rebalanced when they finally released it years later. So it was basically a lazy port and these "shortcuts" were just oversights.

That's my theory though. The other one some of us proposed was that Nexon was on some kind of crack that was out of this world and decided to bloat those aliens themselves.

I would say that it was either Nexon being an optimist about Aliens (thinking that maybe people wouldn't necessarily train on them) or that, similarly to what Shinku said, Nexon intentionally made them bloated so that people wouldn't have a reason to dismiss the content completely. Because let's face it, without Aliens there isn't anything remotely redeemable about Destroyed NLC. Or the third option of complete nearsightedness in the sense that Nexon didn't realize that Aliens were so much better than other monsters near their level.

Oh that, yeah that certainly was a pain in the ass. For game balance, fair enough...though can you agree that Nexon let it go on for far too long? They let people get accustomed to that type of experience gain, then take it away without notice. If it was inbalanced all this time, which it was, why let it go on for so long? I guess I'm alone here in my wish for lower leveled monsters to get some increased gains then. I wouldn't expect it to, but certainly there should be some sort of increased activity? I just think that people will still go to the best alternatives grinding-wise rather than PQing, because the alternative spots are still likely faster. Or that, maybe people will have the same mindset thinking no one will go to PQ, and thus no one will be around for it.

I would just say it's oversight that kept them around for so long. LHC was kept around because during Ascension no one (apparently) really wanted LHC to leave for a theme dungeon.

[FabledGumbo]

I kind of agree that it was stupid to nerf them. I can appreciate that racing to 250 from 200 is more of a legitimate achievement with all these new changes, but all of the lower level experience nerfs basically just penalize anyone who wasn't already level 200. Not to mention it makes the barrier of entry for racing from 200 to 250 even higher, and sets players who are waiting for a new class to come out at an even larger disadvantage.

[RenmazuoDX]

Never really had a problem with SH or HoH that I can recall at the moment, went there at like 170ish I think, at levels that high, kinda feel like party play takes a more vital role because of the exp required to level and because how tough the mobs can get. But im sure there can be equally bad people hanging around those 2 areas also I just dont have any negative experiences with those 2 areas that affect my overall opinion on them compared to LHC and aliens/jesters/crows. Only been to SH and HoH on my Hero so far, havent really been there in awhile, hit 200 around last august.

[Sephie]

I would say that it was either Nexon being an optimist about Aliens (thinking that maybe people wouldn't necessarily train on them) or that, similarly to what Shinku said, Nexon intentionally made them bloated so that people wouldn't have a reason to dismiss the content completely. Because let's face it, without Aliens there isn't anything remotely redeemable about Destroyed NLC. Or the third option of complete nearsightedness in the sense that Nexon didn't realize that Aliens were so much better than other monsters near their level.

It's probably one of these or my theory... though, crack helps...