An undiscussed topic about Maker

[KajitiSouls]

You don't upgrade plates, you just use them for certain items. Plates don't add stats, but they're part of the recipes to forge items. For example, you need 4 Adamantium plates to forge most level 100 weapons.

Jewels and crystals actually have different grades and act as 100% scrolls for the "extra slots" you get when you forge an item.

I prefer to think of it as add-on options upon creation instead. I'm also told you can't use more than one type of jewel per equipment, like say two diamonds, regardless of grade.

[Eos]

I prefer to think of it as add-on options upon creation instead. I'm also told you can't use more than one type of jewel per equipment, like say two diamonds, regardless of grade.

Correct, but you can use one diamond, one black and one dark on an item that allows 3 jewels.

And if they're all high quality you get back item soup!

[Russt]

e: Fixed... >__>___>

Sample size = 1000 refined Dex crystal -> first appraisal // 100,000,000 mesos
740 low grade + 250 mid grade + 10 high grade
First pass low->mid // 22,000,000 mesos
266 low grade + 44 mid grade
Second pass low->mid // 7,800,000 mesos
93 low grade + 15 mid grade
third pass low->mid // 2,700,000 mesos
30 low grade + 5 mid grade
10 + 2
New total:
316 mid + 10 high grade
First pass mid->high // 15,500,000 mesos
199 mid + 9 high grade
Second pass mid->high // 10,000,000 mesos
125 mid + 6 high grade
80 + 4 // 6,000,000 mesos
50 + 3... // 4,000,000 mesos
End result: 1000 dex crystals + 175,000,000 mesos = 35 high grade. Average cost: 28 crystals + 5000000 mesos.

And by extension (for the poor people)

1000 dex crystals + 132,500,000 mesos = 316 mid + 10 high grade = 316 mid + 10 * (28 crystals + 5000000 mesos)
1000 dex crystals + 82,500,000 mesos - 280 crystals' worth of mesos = 316 mid grade.
Average cost of mid: 2.3 crystals + 260,000 mesos (or more accurately, 3 crystals + 260,000 mesos - 0.7 * price of 1 crystal).

Warning: Silly calculation follows.
1000 dex crystals + 100,000,000 mesos = 740 low + 250 mid + 10 high
720 dex crystals + 50,000,000 mesos = 740 low + 250 * (2.3 crystals + 260,000 mesos)
250 dex crystals - 15,000,000 mesos = 740 low grade.
Average cost of low: 0.33 crystals - 200,000 mesos.
In reality the only reason you'd need mass low grade crystals would be to convert them, and if you actually intended to use them you might as well just appraise -> keep a few low grades instead of converting.

[Dusk]

^Yeah, it's going to be most sensible to use mid-grades. High-grades might be cheap for diamonds and jewels that add less-desirable stats, though.

[IllegallySane]

Yeah, everything that KMS has :zzz:

Disassembling sounds promising. I wonder if it'll actually become more profitable to get the materials of the equipment than it is to sell the equipment itself. It's like WoW disenchanting. Only in rare cases is it a good idea to NPC the equipment when you can "shard" it for materials to make more money than if you NPCed.

[Nikkey]

Disassembling sounds promising. I wonder if it'll actually become more profitable to get the materials of the equipment than it is to sell the equipment itself. It's like WoW disenchanting. Only in rare cases is it a good idea to NPC the equipment when you can "shard" it for materials to make more money than if you NPCed.

Finally those blunt weapons and axes that drops from Horntail come to use? Y halo thar dragon scales.

[Eos]

For giggles I ran a simulation of these formulas on Fiel's diamond stockpile, assuming the goal was to maximize the number of high quality diamonds and sell them, and here's what came out in 5 runs of the simulation.

Spoiler

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	169	805	3403	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	169	1097	4	231,300,000
Upgrading Mids	253	9	4	166,000,000
Total				835,000,000
Break Even Fee				3,300,395
5m Profit				430,000,000
10m Profit				1,695,000,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	243	806	3328	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	243	1102	4	198,000,000
Upgrading Mids	334	3	4	140,000,000
Total				775,700,000
Break Even Fee				2,322,455
5m Profit				894,300,000
10m Profit				2,564,300,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	221	959	3197	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	221	1238	1	205,500,000
Upgrading Mids	324	2	1	154,500,000
Total				797,700,000
Break Even Fee				2,462,037
5m Profit				822,300,000
10m Profit				2,442,300,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	230	856	3291	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	230	1147	4	200,400,000
Upgrading Mids	324	7	4	147,000,000
Total				785,100,000
Break Even Fee				2,423,148
5m Profit				834,900,000
10m Profit				2,454,900,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	221	972	3184	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	221	1239	0	234,300,000
Upgrading Mids	311	8	0	210,500,000
Total				882,500,000
Break Even Fee				2,837,621
5m Profit				672,500,000
10m Profit				2,227,500,000

Basically as long as high grades retail for at least 3m you break even. anything above that is profit. I've heard guesses of up to 25m for them so I'd say a certain chinchilla is anticipating some heavy yields there as long as he has the income to afford this level of processing in the first place.

Edit* I forgot to mention, for those who don't see it, it's a significantly higher profit:expense ratio to only bother selling the appraised ones - Upgrading will earn you more, but it also takes more time and costs more, and isn't as big a return as the intiail appraisal, just an incremental boost because you lose so many. If those lower grades sell at all they may be worth more to sell than to try upgrading.

Edit2*Went back and repopulated the sample simulations after realizing half the formulas were hard coded to 3200 from beta testing. Oops. Real figures now.

[Stereo]

Just what I needed, a raise in price for clean BWs because they're worth more disassembling than scrollign >_>

[Holypie]

cool... time to start hoarding ruin hammers from brextons!

[ChaosCorpse]

Finally those blunt weapons and axes that drops from Horntail come to use? Y halo thar dragon scales.

Wait, wait, wait. As far as I've been aware, when you disassemble all you get are the monster crystals. I've heard nothing of receiving dragon spirits/scales or powders. In fact I'm pretty sure I heard the opposite a while back.

This isn't true is it? Let me believe in the hope that level 110 sets will remain somewhat rare for a while at least... please? Been my personal goal and the total investment of all my resources for over a year.

[Eos]

Wait, wait, wait. As far as I've been aware, when you disassemble all you get are the monster crystals. I've heard nothing of receiving dragon spirits/scales or powders. In fact I'm pretty sure I heard the opposite a while back.

So far I've seen that asked three times and never seen an actual answer - Just speculation. You'd think one of the KMS or JMS people would actually expalin what happens there, it's consdered such common knowledge none of the fan sites even mention it.

[Fiel]

I also ran through another frightening calculation.

Let's assume it take five seconds to refine each diamond. I have 4377 diamonds.

4377 diamonds * 5 sec/diamond = 21,885 seconds

21,885 seconds * 1 hour/3600 seconds = 6.08 hours

[MasPan]

Are you able to make anything other than mainstream items with it in mSEA?
Also, at an above post, Ruin Hammers won't do it for you - only the 110 weapons are speculated to give the scales/spirits. Although now I'm curious if Timeless/Reverse weapons would give their respective etc items too...

[Eos]

I also ran through another frightening calculation.

Let's assume it take five seconds to refine each diamond. I have 4377 diamonds.

4377 diamonds * 5 sec/diamond = 21,885 seconds

21,885 seconds * 1 hour/3600 seconds = 6.08 hours

Yeah. I did that one too. You'll be appraising for days driving yourself batty.
B> Appraisal bot

[Russt]

If you were able to bind a key to a mouse click you could have a heavy object hold it down for those 6 hours.

Edit: That's assuming the appraisal process isn't too involved; now that I think of it, don't you need to drag each diamond into the window?

[Stereo]

It's like using the item scroller... drag items in, click, wait for it to process (because being immediate would be too sensible).

[MasPan]

It's like using the item scroller... drag items in, click, wait for it to process (because being immediate would be too sensible).

It's probably designed that way specifically to prevent mass-grading.

[Eos]

It's probably designed that way specifically to prevent mass-grading.

And yet it will stop neither Fiel nor myself.

Iiiiiiiiii'm grading my life away... hoping to make it pay...

[IllegallySane]

For giggles I ran a simulation of these formulas on Fiel's diamond stockpile, assuming the goal was to maximize the number of high quality diamonds and sell them, and here's what came out in 5 runs of the simulation.

Spoiler

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	174	707	2319	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	174	909	9	147,600,000
Upgrading Mids	250	0	9	112,500,000
Total				697,800,000
Break Even Fee				2,791,200
5m Profit				552,200,000
10m Profit				1,802,200,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	175	693	2332	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	175	893	7	157,500,000
Upgrading Mids	245	5	7	129,000,000
Total				724,200,000
Break Even Fee				2,955,918
5m Profit				500,800,000
10m Profit				1,725,800,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	166	707	2327	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	166	913	0	141,900,000
Upgrading Mids	241	6	0	116,000,000
Total				695,600,000
Break Even Fee				2,886,307
5m Profit				509,400,000
10m Profit				1,714,400,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	175	710	2315	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	175	913	1	146,100,000
Upgrading Mids	252	4	1	108,000,000
Total				691,800,000
Break Even Fee				2,745,238
5m Profit				568,200,000
10m Profit				1,828,200,000

Phase	High	Mid	Low	Cost
Appraisal	172	691	2337	437,700,000
Upgrading Lows	172	899	4	138,300,000
Upgrading Mids	245	9	4	116,500,000
Total				692,500,000
Break Even Fee				2,826,531
5m Profit				532,500,000
10m Profit				1,757,500,000

Basically as long as high grades retail for at least 3m you break even. anything above that is profit. I've heard guesses of up to 25m for them so I'd say a certain chinchilla is anticipating some heavy yields there as long as he has the income to afford this level of processing in the first place.

Edit* I forgot to mention, for those who don't see it, it's a significantly higher profit:expense ratio to only bother selling the appraised ones - Upgrading will earn you more, but it also takes more time and costs more, and isn't as big a return as the intiail appraisal, just an incremental boost because you lose so many. If those lower grades sell at all they may be worth more to sell than to try upgrading.

Uh, wow. A high grade being worth 3m? Actually doesn't sound that expensive at all, but that's only for one. I need to factor in the fact mass producing high grades for the sake of making a godly scrolled item will really put a dent in one's wallet. I guess I was expecting a high grade to retail for 5-8m instead.

But now I'll have to find a way to mass stockpile gems/crystals myself, especially the DEX/INT kind. I'll be aiming for tons of high grade DEX crystals, and plenty of high grade INT crystals. Since high grade diamonds only have a 1 attack difference, a medium grade diamond would give the most bang for your buck. High grade diamonds would be for those who truly have nothing else to spend their money on.

[Fiel]

High grade diamonds would be for those who truly have nothing else to spend their money on.

And yet the Chaos'd pink cape price gouging lives on.