[Game Over] Bad Apple Mafia - Mafia Victory

[Holypie]

Er... How would claiming help save Meta?

As for your flavour text, I think that may have been a special case as y0y0 was 'sauced', or killed by the bad apples. It may imply that you investigated after the bad apples killed y0y0. And depending on our next investigation, we may be 'decoy' or flavour cops. Nothing from your post nor mine were binary 'guilty/non-guilty' results, so I suggest we post our investigation results as soon as possible for each day to give players enough time to decipher and interpret our results.

With Meta, she didn't confirm nor deny that she was a cop; her posts alluded to that fact. But until we find out what her flavour text for Words was, we can't be sure of anything.

With two cop claims it's generally assumed that at least one is mafia but by claiming what happened was that we figured out that we have 2 flavour cops and a heavily flavoured maybe a real cop instead.

As for the list of people who we should check: CakesXD, Olsi, Shidoshi, TheBirds, cookie. Personally I'm leaning towards Olsi or maybe CakesXD if Shidoshi finally explains why he's suspicious.

[Shidoshi]

My suspicion of CakesXD started on Day 1 with his random voting for Niernen near the end of the Day. He hasn't done much contribution today either, besides wondering why I'm suspicious of him.
Right now my suspicions lie mostly on: HolyPie and his weak claim of investigating someone that died, CakesXD and LuvDWayULie, that, while it could just be the fact they are new, are doing little scummy things and Polantaris for his actions on Day 1 plus association with the aforementioned suspects, though I wouldn't start with him for a lynch and rather wait to see if I'm right on any of the others.

For now I think the best course of action is to untangle this roleclaim mess, starting with Words. Even if the generalized overeagerness of the players would point out that it's going to be either a townie or a super bus.

@Polantaris; I said that about the mafia making a play to win today because if we really have 3 cops + other roles in Town, the mafia should be pretty strong too and might be able to win with not many mislynches. On morning sober hindsight, 2 mislynches is still too few for the mafia to win, the general average is for the mafia to need ~3 mislynches without any mafia being caught for it to win.

[Vote] Words

[KhainiWest]

At this time, let's assume we have 3 detectives/cops. We can confirm meta right now, so we should investigate 3 people, rather than focus on one, there's just too much ground to cover.

My suggestion is on thebirds, zomgcookie and Polantaris.

I feel we should focus on polantaris as an investigation because he;s still on the fence for most of us and it will confirm or not. That will leave us with a much smaller batch, 2/3 inactives confirmed, and at least some posts/actions to go on.

[Vote]Words

[z0mgc00k13]

Kinda busy with family matters atm, ill show more activity after monday, since my inactivity is suspicious

[Holypie]

My suspicion of CakesXD started on Day 1 with his random voting for Niernen near the end of the Day. He hasn't done much contribution today either, besides wondering why I'm suspicious of him.
Right now my suspicions lie mostly on: HolyPie and his weak claim of investigating someone that died, CakesXD and LuvDWayULie, that, while it could just be the fact they are new, are doing little scummy things and Polantaris for his actions on Day 1 plus association with the aforementioned suspects, though I wouldn't start with him for a lynch and rather wait to see if I'm right on any of the others.

For now I think the best course of action is to untangle this roleclaim mess, starting with Words. Even if the generalized overeagerness of the players would point out that it's going to be either a townie or a super bus.

Polantaris; I said that about the mafia making a play to win today because if we really have 3 cops + other roles in Town, the mafia should be pretty strong too and might be able to win with not many mislynches. On morning sober hindsight, 2 mislynches is still too few for the mafia to win, the general average is for the mafia to need ~3 mislynches without any mafia being caught for it to win.

[Vote] Words

Yeah it was pretty terrible that I had to claim with so little but I wanted to sort out this three cops mess, and you can't do that with only two cops. Anyway tomorrow I'll (hopefully) have some solid information to convince you and the rest of the town with. To be honest given what we know I'm not even sure what kind of information I'm going to get. It might just be flavour like what Kyrastri gets.

Tonight I'll be investigating either CakesXD, Polantris, or Olsi.

[xBTAx]

I'd vote for Words too, but I'm worried about us reaching majority and cutting off discussion too early.

I might just be confused here, but I'm not sure how the cops targeting different people helps us? Meta can't be verified by Words alone if they get random or backwards results, and we'll just be stuck arguing over each cop's claim if all 3 targets end up living through the night. Hell, even if one dies we'll be arguing because the person who supposedly targeted them could easily be lying about their result.

[Holypie]

I didn't actually get a result when I investigated yoshi, that's one of the reasons I'm hesitant about coordinating who we investigate. If the mafia kills that person it's a night wasted. And we can't really get the doctor to protect that person, we need the doctor to protect Meta. Why can't we have like four doctors ;_;

[LuvDWayULie]

I didn't actually get a result when I investigated yoshi, that's one of the reasons I'm hesitant about coordinating who we investigate. If the mafia kills that person it's a night wasted. And we can't really get the doctor to protect that person, we need the doctor to protect Meta. Why can't we have like four doctors ;_;

Maybe because the Townies will be too overpowered then. Not that I'm siding the mafias, but it's to maintain a fair gameplay?

@xBTAx : I have the same feeling too. But, it's the best option for now. We still have time to change our votes.

[xBTAx]

I didn't actually get a result when I investigated yoshi, that's one of the reasons I'm hesitant about coordinating who we investigate. If the mafia kills that person it's a night wasted. And we can't really get the doctor to protect that person, we need the doctor to protect Meta. Why can't we have like four doctors ;_;

The way I see it, protecting the one target and having one of the three cops die is a better result than having one of you die while investigating different people. I mean, it'd be better to know about more people so we're not just wasting time trying to confirm the cops, but I don't think 3 (or 2) different reports we're going to fight over helps us any if there's nothing to compare them to. A fake cop misleading us about someone else for another day could be too costly, especially if their target's just a generic town who can't claim to protect themselves.

[KhainiWest]

I would consider our selection obvious at this point. You're looking too much at the possibilities after the fact, without knowing the given solution. Words being a good apple, would mean that meta's integrity is gone, whoever the mafia target next also determines who they find the most threatening as well. You also have to consider by investigating 3 people in 1 night we have 3 other doors to open, two at the least.

The best case is we determine the ally, get rid of a mafia member, and lower the potential group by 2-3.

[ChaoticCJ]

I'd vote for Words too, but I'm worried about us reaching majority and cutting off discussion too early.

I might just be confused here, but I'm not sure how the cops targeting different people helps us? Meta can't be verified by Words alone if they get random or backwards results, and we'll just be stuck arguing over each cop's claim if all 3 targets end up living through the night. Hell, even if one dies we'll be arguing because the person who supposedly targeted them could easily be lying about their result.

I had the same worry, but the rules actually don't have a majority cut-off. It would be best to get @MasPan; here to get a clear answer if we have a majority lynch feature.

To your point about the cops and investigations. KhainiWest made the best argument about potentially clearing as many people as possible. Given how this discussion is going and to confirm the most townies as possible(and get a possible mafia), I would advise that Kyrastri get the most protection because of the extent of her abilities(and out of the three she is the least suspicious). Kyrastri should probably investigate KhainiWest(or Corn or Shidoshi), because yes I am a bit paranoid and confirmation of townie(or mafia) would be helpful. Holypie and Meta should probably investigate the same person(LuvDWayULie, xBTAx, CakesXD, zomgCookie, or TheBirds are possible choices), because in all likelihood we don't have more than a doctor and maybe a guard. Even if they do both survive it would give us a clear result of their abilities.

[Holypie]

I would consider our selection obvious at this point. You're looking too much at the possibilities after the fact, without knowing the given solution. Words being a good apple, would mean that meta's integrity is gone, whoever the mafia target next also determines who they find the most threatening as well. You also have to consider by investigating 3 people in 1 night we have 3 other doors to open, two at the least.

The best case is we determine the ally, get rid of a mafia member, and lower the potential group by 2-3.

Yes this would be true if we had 3 alignment cops, but I'm pretty certain that Kyrastri and I are just flavour cops, i.e. not that great. In my role pm it says nothing about finding mafia, it only says that I get "clues" about my target. For all I know that could mean the info I receive is like, "Your target has a stem" or some equally useless information. I think whoever the doctor is should protect Meta (assuming Words flips mafia) because Kyrastri and I are probably just decoy cops to throw off the town.

[KhainiWest]

I had the same worry, but the rules actually don't have a majority cut-off. It would be best to get MasPan; here to get a clear answer if we have a majority lynch feature.

To your point about the cops and investigations. KhainiWest made the best argument about potentially clearing as many people as possible. Given how this discussion is going and to confirm the most townies as possible(and get a possible mafia), I would advise that Kyrastri get the most protection because of the extent of her abilities(and out of the three she is the least suspicious). Kyrastri should probably investigate KhainiWest(or Corn or Shidoshi), because yes I am a bit paranoid and confirmation of townie(or mafia) would be helpful. Holypie and Meta should probably investigate the same person(LuvDWayULie, xBTAx, CakesXD, zomgCookie, or TheBirds are possible choices), because in all likelihood we don't have more than a doctor and maybe a guard. Even if they do both survive it would give us a clear result of their abilities.

I feel we should investigate those who don't post that much as a priority first since we have no information to go on period.

[MasPan]

There is no instant-lynch when majority is reached.

Also, @faonkarino; will be subbing for @z0mgc00k13; .

[TheBirds]

Just to note I have been active and reading everything that is going on, I just haven't had anything to say. Though I do agree with everyone else when it comes to Words and Meta, if Words is lynched they are mafia then it proves Meta is innocent and means we got one of the mafioso is is always a good thing.[Vote]Words

[Polantaris]

Polantaris; I said that about the mafia making a play to win today because if we really have 3 cops + other roles in Town, the mafia should be pretty strong too and might be able to win with not many mislynches. On morning sober hindsight, 2 mislynches is still too few for the mafia to win, the general average is for the mafia to need ~3 mislynches without any mafia being caught for it to win.

Ah, that makes sense. I figured I just misread it/it was misworded after Holypie brought it up because of the drinking factor. Thanks for clarifying.

I'd vote for Words too, but I'm worried about us reaching majority and cutting off discussion too early.

That's exactly why I haven't voted yet myself, but now that MasPan has confirmed no insta-lynch, [Vote] Words

The fact that he has said absolutely nothing after being so vocal yesterday is practically confirming a mafia status. He's been mentioned several times and quoted several more, and has never responded to anyone about this whole ordeal. Even if he's not mafia, he's doing absolutely nothing to alleviate or help solve this issue.

I might just be confused here, but I'm not sure how the cops targeting different people helps us? Meta can't be verified by Words alone if they get random or backwards results, and we'll just be stuck arguing over each cop's claim if all 3 targets end up living through the night. Hell, even if one dies we'll be arguing because the person who supposedly targeted them could easily be lying about their result.

That's why I agree that they should investigate the same person.

I propose you all investigate me. I know I'm innocent so I don't care, and if you're all getting bad (or conflicting) information, I'm going to be screwed over anyway (because someone is bound to investigate me eventually). At least I can help the town figure out what's going on with this cop issue, and if it gets me killed in the end as long as town wins I don't really care. This cop problem needs to be figured out.

[xBTAx]

Oh, there's no majority? Then [Vote] Words.

I would consider our selection obvious at this point. You're looking too much at the possibilities after the fact, without knowing the given solution. Words being a good apple, would mean that meta's integrity is gone, whoever the mafia target next also determines who they find the most threatening as well. You also have to consider by investigating 3 people in 1 night we have 3 other doors to open, two at the least.

The best case is we determine the ally, get rid of a mafia member, and lower the potential group by 2-3.

To begin with, Words alone doesn't confirm Meta if Meta isn't sane. But even ignoring the possible inclusion of sanity, then yes, we have 2-3 doors to open... but with no comparison between the cops, we have no idea who could be lying about even being a cop and just trying to get us to lynch their target. I mean, even if Meta's telling the truth, that doesn't mean the other two are. And, again, if the targets are generic innocents there's no way for them to verify their innocence (as a claim could) and that means easy mislynches. I'd rather deal with the cops and just lynch someone based on suspicions as normal tomorrow if they all check out than leave us open to being misled at a critical time. Really, the three targets just leaves things way too open to manipulation, because if the one target is protected and one "cop" is killed then we get the other twos' reports; if one of the three targets dies then the report of the person who targeted them is worthless (or nonexistent, as Holy indicated might be the case).

I propose you all investigate me. I know I'm innocent so I don't care, and if you're all getting bad (or conflicting) information, I'm going to be screwed over anyway (because someone is bound to investigate me eventually). At least I can help the town figure out what's going on with this cop issue, and if it gets me killed in the end as long as town wins I don't really care. This cop problem needs to be figured out.

As much as I appreciate the support, given that I'm already kinda suspicious of you I'd rather we not use you, or anyone who volunteers, as the target, because there likely is a godfather role that could screw this up.

[Polantaris]

As much as I appreciate the support, given that I'm already kinda suspicious of you I'd rather we not use you, or anyone who volunteers, as the target, because there likely is a godfather role that could screw this up.

Forgot that even existed, to be completely honest.

[Kyrastri]

I'd vote for Words too, but I'm worried about us reaching majority and cutting off discussion too early.

I might just be confused here, but I'm not sure how the cops targeting different people helps us? Meta can't be verified by Words alone if they get random or backwards results, and we'll just be stuck arguing over each cop's claim if all 3 targets end up living through the night. Hell, even if one dies we'll be arguing because the person who supposedly targeted them could easily be lying about their result.

@Holypie; @MetaSeraphim;

The point is that we don't target multiple people, but one person. At this point, considering that the mafia can easily kill off anyone who we're collaborating to investigate, we should get the doctor to protect whoever is being investigated, and allow the mafia to either kill a random or one of us off.

This, however, is only if confirming sanity is our highest priority. I don't believe that confirming sanity is required at this point, as we have essentially 3 flavour cops (Meta's flavour text from N1 indicates that maybe her investigative powers are the strongest, but we will need more pending investigations to confirm this.). This may negate the need of sanities, as the cops are weak enough without true guilty/non-guilty convictions. As Khaini has said, it would make sense to try and 'open' as many doors as possible.

Even though I don't believe that we need to check sanity, I think it'd be in the best interests of the town to sort it out properly, so as a compromise; we collectively, randomly investigate two people. That way, the mafia will have to take a gamble on who to kill, and the doctor can protect a cop.

Current Votes:
Words(11): HolyPie, LuvDWayULie, MetaSeraphim, Niernen, Kyrastri, Olsi, Shidoshi, KhainiWest, TheBirds, Polantaris, xBTAx

[xBTAx]

Holypie; MetaSeraphim;

The point is that we don't target multiple people, but one person. At this point, considering that the mafia can easily kill off anyone who we're collaborating to investigate, we should get the doctor to protect whoever is being investigated, and allow the mafia to either kill a random or one of us off.

This, however, is only if confirming sanity is our highest priority. I don't believe that confirming sanity is required at this point, as we have essentially 3 flavour cops (Meta's flavour text from N1 indicates that maybe her investigative powers are the strongest, but we will need more pending investigations to confirm this.). This may negate the need of sanities, as the cops are weak enough without true guilty/non-guilty convictions. As Khaini has said, it would make sense to try and 'open' as many doors as possible.

Even though I don't believe that we need to check sanity, I think it'd be in the best interests of the town to sort it out properly, so as a compromise; we collectively, randomly investigate two people. That way, the mafia will have to take a gamble on who to kill, and the doctor can protect a cop.

Current Votes:
Words(11): HolyPie, LuvDWayULie, MetaSeraphim, Niernen, Kyrastri, Olsi, Shidoshi, KhainiWest, TheBirds, Polantaris, xBTAx

Please read my most recent post. Sanity isn't the only thing relevant here.