[KMST] [1.2.375] Monster Park

You may, just saying it's not really worth the effort. There are plenty of better skills they could replace it with, which is why my original suggestion was just to see it go.

Also no Alilatias, they didn't change Thunderbolt's animation, something sexy like a Mini Dark Fog would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Kalemora

God no, Evan's Slow doesn't even work on bosses. >_<
IDGAF that I need to actively debuff a boss. It takes less than a second and it actually works on bosses.

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Sorry. I meant for it to be a buff like Evan's Slow, but still work on bosses.

It would be great at LHC.

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Originally Posted by Moonlapse

Might as well be.

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Hopefully they will be revamping every class eventually and that warriors are only step 1.

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

Also, I fine tuned my algorithm and it determined that as optimal DPS with Panic is with 9 or more orbs on both single and multiple targets.

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Would this mean optimal DPS with a Hero would be placing Panic/BS on a macro together?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous Moose

Hopefully they will be revamping every class eventually and that warriors are only step 1.

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Guaranteed.

Make Arch Mages more DPS happy or at least more useful bossers :c ?

and @donovan-character-person, stop playing your evan. And go play a f/p mage without using slow or seal. Then come back and fix your comments.
Also, I like the chain-lightning animation. Its lightning, its supposed to look like scribbles.

Hi I'm an example of real lightning

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithab...ghtning-1.jpeg

One things. Why did they make the ACB animation better then blast? And please nexon... Why no love for blunt weapons? T^T Instead of a stab in front of you it should slam into the ground like a mini heavens hammer. And blast should just get flashier or something because ACB is clearly looking 10x better now then blast.

Still very happy about the animation changes though. I can't wait. (:

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Originally Posted by Anonymous Moose

Would this mean optimal DPS with a Hero would be placing Panic/BS on a macro together?

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For the simplest performance, Brave Slash + Panic would work out to be only 2620%/s.

Given the ideal scenario,
Panic on 10 orbs is ~2880%/s
Panic on 9+ orbs is ~2900%/s
Panic on 8+ orbs is ~2840%/s

This scenario itself concludes that Panic occurs immediately after the required amount of orbs is achieved, which I do not believe human reflexes can accurately reach, but if its attempted, it should be an improvement over the simple macro.

The explicit difference between the macro and the ideal scenario is that on the given chance that Final Attack off Panic reproduces 10 orbs, you would Panic twice in a row, but I do not believe that not only is that non-reproducible by a player; I believe that the delay between Final Attack occurring and performing the next attack is too great for this to occur. I'll see if I can configure a case where it delays using orbs gained from Final Attack to replicate something more realistic.

That being said, the macro of Brave Slash + Panic works out to be 2620%/s on single target and 11800%/s on six targets should be a much more accurate figure as it does not rely on the number of orbs present to perform. The net gain in orbs is on average greater than two, so you should never deplete your combo, and it would be a very low statistical occurrence of dropping down to six orbs alone, ~300 in a million. This macro should also be applicable to Coma, as the net orb gain on average should be greater than three, but Coma is inferior to Panic unless you want an interruptable stun on a monster.

Is that assuming Panic and Coma retain their current formulas? Seems a bit unlikely.

Those new animations are just...so...wonderful!! :heart:

My thoughts on the Paladin animations and warrior changes in general:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

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Originally Posted by Dusk

Is that assuming Panic and Coma retain their current formulas? Seems a bit unlikely.

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They are. The numbers are quite high. If Panic and Coma just turn into regular skills, Panic on six monsters would be 7200%/s, and 1850%/s on single target, assuming the Brave Slash + Panic Macro.

Comparatively, Brave Slash alone is 1451.6%/s.

If they do become regular skills, the classes are relatively close to each other on 6 monster %/s, within around 200%/s, but Paladins leap far ahead with Combat Orders which makes sense. Combat Orders does almost nothing for Heroes, raising the macro to 12100%/s, and only to 7250%/s if Panic is a regular skill.

Comparatively,

Holy Thunder Advanced Charge Blow: 7375%/s on six monsters
CO: 7902%/s
Berserk Dark Impale: 7428.6%/s on six monsters
CO: 7637%/s

Heroes however get a significantly larger bonus from Ignore Target Defense from Combat Mastery, and depending on the monster, Chance Attack can come into play. On that note, can LHC monsters be affected by Panic's Darkness?

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

Heroes however get a significantly larger bonus from Ignore Target Defense from Combat Mastery, and depending on the monster, Chance Attack can come into play. On that note, can LHC monsters be affected by Panic's Darkness?

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As far as I know, Panic doesnt inflict darkness on LHC mobs.
And thanks for the imput on Panic.

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Originally Posted by donovan

I honestly just want the skill gone, but they can fix it too, just saying right now unless you're a really heavy solobosser, because in any 4th Job part situation, you will knock back the mob, and most likely have a rushing warrior, it's useless. In the Solo situation the few seconds you save is honestly not worth 20 Skills Points, you just don't have anywhere else to put em.

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I lol'd.
Slow is an amazingly good skill.
If you don't think it's worth 20 skill points, then don't add into it. Problem pineappleing solved.
It shouldnt be removed when 99% of all AMs i know LOVE slow.
Hoping for some sexy bucc changes, then i wont feel like my marauder is a waste..

Im safe to say now Heroes, Ressistance , DBS and Warriors are Balanced now.

The other needs rebalance.

Mages should be like this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UunqBAHBDo8

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Originally Posted by Delicae

Make Arch Mages more DPS happy or at least more useful bossers :c ?

and @donovan-character-person, stop playing your evan. And go play a f/p mage without using slow or seal. Then come back and fix your comments.
Also, I like the chain-lightning animation. Its lightning, its supposed to look like scribbles.

Hi I'm an example of real lightning

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithab...ghtning-1.jpeg

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Just saying I/Ls don't need either, and Seal becomes useless 4th Job when you have Paralyze. Mages aren't even great bossers, so I'm getting all the defense towards it being a great bossing skill. But honestly there are better party buff, and if it's Between you and Paladin with CO its pretty obvious the choice that's going to be made. You may use Slow, I'm saying your efforts would be better spent somewhere else, hence the need of a better skill to replace it or a change.

Mages need more to make them less of a joke class, being High Level is not really enough, because other classes just blow of out of the water, Being Slow and using Slow just make you average while every other class is blowing you away. I think removing a lot of these joke skills are a step in the right direction. Do Paladins waste time casting Threaten, nope because they don't need some lolboost because their power alone is enough, Not saying I want some hurrdurrspamclass, but honestly Slow and Seal are not what magicians need, I should now I have 5 magician classes.

The animation is outdated and of the worse of all magician 4th Jobs skills, it could be better.

Why do you keep mentioning Seal? Seal is the most useless skill Arch Mages have. Slow is one of the most useful. They are not the same skill. You keep talking about the two skills like you're meant to use them while training on regular mobs, when the entire time everyone else has been saying "Slow is good because it works on bosses." Slow makes mobbing at LHC easier, if you are not much of a bosser.

There is no need to disable regular mobs, ever. They are way too easy. Any sort of passive stun or slow would have pretty much no effect on Magician training.

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Originally Posted by donovan

Do Paladins waste time casting Threaten, nope because they don't need some lolboost because their power alone is enough.

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Wait what? Threaten is an amazing skill that helps improve everyones DPM in a boss run. I use it all the time when I'm bossing with friends. Unless if you were talking about training, then yes and no. Yes for LHC monsters, no for any other monster.

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Originally Posted by donovan

Do Paladins waste time casting Threaten, nope because they don't need some lolboost because their power alone is enough

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Guess what? I use Threaten exclusively at bosses these days for a few reasons.
1. Improves everyone else's survivability.
2. Improves everyone else's damage on the target a bit.
3. I keep hearing it triggers Chance Attack for Heros.

Don't make assumptions about classes you don't play.

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Originally Posted by donovan

Do Paladins waste time casting Threaten, nope because they don't need some lolboost because their power alone is enough

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Do you know how it works? If you do try to think one more time and realize what you just said.

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Originally Posted by donovan

I should now I have 5 magician classes.

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And i've played all classes released in MS but that doesnt make what i say any more valid.

I actually don't know if Threaten is worth it for LHC, damagewise... It doesn't list the chance of failure in the skill description, but it does fail about half the time. So on average you're losing 2 attacks to that, for a 6% damage boost on 20%pdr mobs... you need to take at least 33 hits to KO the mobs for that to be worth it, and that's the bare minimum. I dunno about other Paladins, but when I'm buffed up, I don't take over 30 hits to kill mobs with only 9-10m hp.


I mostly use Threaten to save pots, since it cuts back their damage from about 1.6k to 900.

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Originally Posted by Stereo

I actually don't know if Threaten is worth it for LHC, damagewise... It doesn't list the chance of failure in the skill description, but it does fail about half the time. So on average you're losing 2 attacks to that, for a 6% damage boost on 20%pdr mobs... you need to take at least 33 hits to KO the mobs for that to be worth it, and that's the bare minimum. I dunno about other Paladins, but when I'm buffed up, I don't take over 30 hits to kill mobs with only 9-10m hp.


I mostly use Threaten to save pots, since it cuts back their damage from about 1.6k to 900.

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Its 50% miss rate for the -PDR and atk damage and iirc 8% chance to inflict darkness for 8secs? i forgot.

Also the range its huge and if you are training in LHC then use it when theres at least 2mobs or more.

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Originally Posted by donovan

Just saying I/Ls don't need either, and Seal becomes useless 4th Job when you have Paralyze. Mages aren't even great bossers, so I'm getting all the defense towards it being a great bossing skill. But honestly there are better party buff, and if it's Between you and Paladin with CO its pretty obvious the choice that's going to be made. You may use Slow, I'm saying your efforts would be better spent somewhere else, hence the need of a better skill to replace it or a change.

Mages need more to make them less of a joke class, being High Level is not really enough, because other classes just blow of out of the water, Being Slow and using Slow just make you average while every other class is blowing you away. I think removing a lot of these joke skills are a step in the right direction. Do Paladins waste time casting Threaten, nope because they don't need some lolboost because their power alone is enough, Not saying I want some hurrdurrspamclass, but honestly Slow and Seal are not what magicians need, I should now I have 5 magician classes.

The animation is outdated and of the worse of all magician 4th Jobs skills, it could be better.

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I wonder if you have boss'd before. Like seriously, have you done anything besides solo zakum?

These updates are about stream lining the classes and removing things that don't fit the Magicians intended play style, useless skills, etc. If nothing else the fact that bossing is a 4th Job advent, yet Seal is available over 50 levels ago says something about the design of the skill and our class overall, Mages are midrange attackers, it's not like you need to on top of the monster and worry about them rushing you, and the most popular Bossing situations Zakum, Horntail, the greater half of PB, are all stationary.

Obviously its just me though that feels that this is a subpar skill, Archmages are attackers not support classes, and even if you think we are, is this our best contribution to the party, Slowing down the monster's movement speed, sorry, but really that's a joke. I see a lot of FPs saying that they use Slow frequently, but what I'm saying is that it provides no significant advantage, maybe in the misting days, but not now.

The other big point that I actually thought was valid was Telecasting next to the monster to improve DPS, but if you been to LHC you'd know that those monsters hit hard and have a long range, being able to KB the monster however provides the same advantage, so Slow proves its lack of worth again, and if you know how to Telecast correctly you can easily avoid the damage, keep attacking, and trigger the TeleMastery damage, on top of your summon damage, and any DoT you may have, and not have to stop and use Slow which has a Slow cast time compared to your attacking skills.

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Originally Posted by donovan

These updates are about stream lining the classes and removing things that don't fit the Magicians intended play style, useless skills, etc. If nothing else the fact that bossing is a 4th Job advent, yet Seal is available over 50 levels ago says something about the design of the skill and our class overall, Mages are midrange attackers, it's not like you need to on top of the monster and worry about them rushing you, and the most popular Bossing situations Zakum, Horntail, the greater half of PB, are all stationary.

Obviously its just me though that feels that this is a subpar skill, Archmages are attackers not support classes, and even if you think we are, is this our best contribution to the party, Slowing down the monster's movement speed, sorry, but really that's a joke. I see a lot of FPs saying that they use Slow frequently, but what I'm saying is that it provides no significant advantage, maybe in the misting days, but not now.

The other big point that I actually thought was valid was Telecasting next to the monster to improve DPS, but if you been to LHC you'd know that those monsters hit hard and have a long range, being able to KB the monster however provides the same advantage, so Slow proves its lack of worth again, and if you know how to Telecast correctly you can easily avoid the damage, keep attacking, and trigger the TeleMastery damage, on top of your summon damage, and any DoT you may have, and not have to stop and use Slow which has a Slow cast time compared to your attacking skills.

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Teleport makes up a huge part of our DPS. We have to fight melee like Warriors.

Casting Slow at LHC lets you telecast Big Bang without getting hit or spending a lot of time positioning yourself. Slow is a 600 ms skill. It casts extremely quickly and you can even do it in midair. You seem determined to hate the skill instead of looking at any of its benefits.

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Originally Posted by Dusk

Teleport makes up a huge part of our DPS. We have to fight melee like Warriors.

Casting Slow at LHC lets you telecast Big Bang without getting hit or spending a lot of time positioning yourself. Slow is a 600 ms skill. It casts extremely quickly and you can even do it in midair. You seem determined to hate the skill instead of looking at any of its benefits.

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Pretty sure Chain Lighting and Paralyze out damage Big Bang though, due to their faster cast times and DoT, without the neccesity to use Slow to avoid taking damage.

I see you your worthless skill and I raise you Doom ._.

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Originally Posted by Lumancer

I see you your worthless skill and I raise you Doom ._.

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Haha Good point, honestly Bishops would have more use for Slow.

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Originally Posted by donovan

Pretty sure Chain Lighting and Paralyze out damage Big Bang though, due to their faster cast times and DoT, without the neccesity to use Slow to avoid taking damage.

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They don't. Especially since they're Fire weak.

Doom is ostensibly supposed to be our version of Seal, and in theory could have been equally useful if a) it had remained at 90% success rate and b) we didn't mind carrying around enough magic rocks to crash the server. It stops them casting, reduces their movement, and is apparantly going to be a BEAST in pvp- but there simply wasn't any place to pull the points from, and even if their WAS it's just not bloody practical. In short, even if you have Slow + Seal + MORE combined in the same skill, it STILL doesn't get any love. I'm not sure what that says about things...

Wait does the AM slows works on Von Leon? O.o

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Originally Posted by dante9898

Wait does the AM slows works on Von Leon? O.o

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Slow works on everything.

Beating a dead horse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKTVO3MBnP0

Adding to the "what should mages get" discussion in terms of a possible reorganization:

- Change the animation for magic guard, composition, poison mist, and chain lightning.
- Paralyze, Chain Lightning, Angel Ray being multi hit while removing their mobbing abilities.
*This happened for blaze so I'm not sure why developers won't alter archmage/bishop's 1v1 the same way.
- Change the animation for big bang (making it unique for each adventure mage), add an additional effect for each one,
and remove the charge time while lowering the damage %.
- Make teleport mastery's effect and animation unique for each magician class.
*Adjust the damage % and add an additional effect for each one. There could also be an 'aura' like animation to show its in use.
- Change Infinity's animation for each adventure mage and adjust it into a party skill increasing both attack and magic attack %
while keeping the cooldown.
- Change Mana Reflection.
- Change Elemental Resistance.
- Change/remove seal.
- Increase the mage summon durations (level 1 being 1xx seconds instead of 15...) and their attacking speed.
- Ifrit, Elquines, and Bahamut can become optional mounts for the respective class.

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Originally Posted by donovan

Obviously its just me though that feels that this is a subpar skill, Archmages are attackers not support classes, and even if you think we are, is this our best contribution to the party, Slowing down the monster's movement speed, sorry, but really that's a joke..

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I still use slow on occasion but I would have to agree with ams needing better contributions
for partying.

I would be happy if Fire/Ice demon get a Big boost in duration for the effect of making weak a mob to the element... And that Bishops get one too for holy element XD. I as a pally would party with mages and invite them to Boss runs all the time if they get that XD.

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Originally Posted by Abysseon

Adding to the "what should mages get" discussion in terms of a possible reorganization:


- Paralyze, Chain Lightning, Angel Ray being multi hit while removing their mobbing abilities.
*This happened for blaze so I'm not sure why developers won't alter archmage/bishop's 1v1 the same way.
- Ifrit, Elquines, and Bahamut can become optional mounts for the respective class.


I still use slow on occasion but I would have to agree with ams needing better contributions
for partying.

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To the first one point, removing the chain effect of a skill called Chain Lightning is silly. I agree with the multi hit idea, but making any of those skills a one mob skill is silly.

Also, El Quines or Ifrit into mounts doesn't work at all.

Well, I just crunched the numbers on the new power of Charged Blow, and I think that it's pretty overpowered. It deals up to 1046.5% damage on neutral mobs, and 1526% damage on holy weak mobs. Dark Impale can only reach up to 975% damage if it gets 5 crits (unless I'm missing something with how berserk works), all of which need to hit the max critical damage.

If Paladins are going to be the defensive warrior class, they're going to need to be less freaking powerful. :f3:

This happens every time a skill is changed/updated.
Someone thinks they have the best idea in the world in regards to skill changes and while some are good, are a waste of time since nobody has any say in how a skill changes or if at all.

It's a waste of time to argue about it too.

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Originally Posted by Sorien

Well, I just crunched the numbers on the new power of Charged Blow, and I think that it's pretty overpowered. It deals up to 1046.5% damage on neutral mobs, and 1526% damage on holy weak mobs. Dark Impale can only reach up to 975% damage if it gets 5 crits (unless I'm missing something with how berserk works), all of which need to hit the max critical damage.

If Paladins are going to be the defensive warrior class, they're going to need to be less freaking powerful. :f3:

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IIRC Berserk is a multiplier so Dark Impale should be 130% x 5 x 1.6 = 1040%.

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Originally Posted by donovan

Do Paladins waste time casting Threaten, nope because they don't need some lolboost because their power alone is enough, Not saying I want some hurrdurrspamclass, but honestly Slow and Seal are not what magicians need, I should now I have 5 magician classes.

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Paladins cast Threaten at bosses all the time. :f6:
And Slow's a lot more helpful than you think: it makes the monsters so much easier to pin. It's great to have at places like LHC. Why do you want to get rid of one our best skills?

I'd think I'd know too by the way, having played both Arch Mages in 4th job.

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

To the first one point, removing the chain effect of a skill called Chain Lightning is silly. I agree with the multi hit idea, but making any of those skills a one mob skill is silly.

Also, El Quines or Ifrit into mounts doesn't work at all.

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True, it would just become a thunder spear at that point but the same thing happened with blaze so it could go either way.

Elquines, Ifrit, and Bahamut could work as mounts for fun.
You just can't use them as a summon and a mount at the same time.

Imo booster and slow should change jobs so you get booster in 2nd and slow in 3rd simply because booster is more handy in 2nd job than slow will ever become.

http://spadow.wordpress.com/2011/03/...restructuring/

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Originally Posted by Spadow

For 50 Monster Park coin, you can get a Spiegelman Mustache face accessory. The accessory is time limited and cannot be extended. The only good thing is that it adds +100 Charm and Charisma.

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And ofc I didn't look at extractions precisely enough, I assumed that mustache would be perma cause it's not event item.

Rewards are all WORTHLESS if they have time limit. Just like mardi gras. I wonder if Nexon still realised that.

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Originally Posted by Satellite

http://spadow.wordpress.com/2011/03/...restructuring/


And ofc I didn't look at extractions precisely enough, I assumed that mustache would be perma cause it's not event item.

Rewards are all WORTHLESS if they have time limit. Just like mardi gras. I wonder if Nexon still realised that.

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they add personality points when you get them. thereby making them not that worthless.

I'd have to say it depends on how long the time limit is. If it's a few days to a week it wouldn't be worth it other than the personality points, but if it's 2 weeks+ I'd definitely get one myself. You should be able to get it more than once too, if it's anything like the other PQs.

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Originally Posted by Satellite

http://spadow.wordpress.com/2011/03/...restructuring/


And ofc I didn't look at extractions precisely enough, I assumed that mustache would be perma cause it's not event item.

Rewards are all WORTHLESS if they have time limit. Just like mardi gras. I wonder if Nexon still realised that.

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Not that worthless considering they give personality exp.

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Originally Posted by Bribery

IIRC Berserk is a multiplier so Dark Impale should be 130% x 5 x 1.6 = 1040%.

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Well that's better then, but it's still weaker than Charged Blow is without landing a crit. I just think Paladins shouldn't get to tank so well while still hitting harder than Dark Knights.

DrKs do have a 30% higher chance of crit, unless they changed it... there's only an 11% chance of no crits on all 5 hits.

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Originally Posted by Stereo

DrKs do have a 30% higher chance of crit, unless they changed it... there's only an 11% chance of no crits on all 5 hits.

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Didn't change it. In fact, Dragon's Wisdom should work on all attacks now according to the patch notes.

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Originally Posted by Stereo

DrKs do have a 30% higher chance of crit, unless they changed it... there's only an 11% chance of no crits on all 5 hits.

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That and a better damage output for each crit. 135%~150%, if I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by Sorien

Well that's better then, but it's still weaker than Charged Blow is without landing a crit. I just think Paladins shouldn't get to tank so well while still hitting harder than Dark Knights.

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Our chance to crit is utter crap. We only get extra crit by using a ring no other way.

And blast is the only skill that get 50% crit chance.

At least both Paladins and Dark Knights get 90% mastery. I'd take mastery over crit rate any day. Dark Knights have crazy HP skills now. Dragon's Wisdom recovers HP, Hyber Body boosts HP to 160%, Aura of the Beholder recovers 500 HP every 4 seconds, and Beholder's Revenge recovers HP now. Paladins get massive defense from Shield Mastery, Achilles, Guardian, Divine Shield, and HP Recovery when in a pinch. Heroes don't really have much of a gimmick as it is. Stuns are interrupted and Darkness doesn't work on bosses (in its current state unless otherwised patched). All I'm asking for at this point is something to help our survivability. If we're going to be glass cannons, we need a way to be a cannon, and fighting closer than the other warriors isn't helping that at all.

What's the story behind the beholder anyway?

I always wondered why they never update its appearance from the past few skill revamps
due to it being a floating eye related to a dragon based warrior.

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Originally Posted by Abysseon

What's the story behind the beholder anyway?

Don't see how a floating eye relates to a dragon based warrior so I always wonder why
they never update its appearance from the past few skill revamps.

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I think it's a D&D reference. Nothing to do with the backstory of the DrK.

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Originally Posted by Fiel

I think it's a D&D reference. Nothing to do with the backstory of the DrK.

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Thanks for the link.
Odd choice for a reference but I guess it works then.

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Originally Posted by ghostofhalo

At least both Paladins and Dark Knights get 90% mastery. I'd take mastery over crit rate any day. Dark Knights have crazy HP skills now. Dragon's Wisdom recovers HP, Hyber Body boosts HP to 160%, Aura of the Beholder recovers 500 HP every 4 seconds, and Beholder's Revenge recovers HP now. Paladins get massive defense from Shield Mastery, Achilles, Guardian, Divine Shield, and HP Recovery when in a pinch. Heroes don't really have much of a gimmick as it is. Stuns are interrupted and Darkness doesn't work on bosses (in its current state unless otherwised patched). All I'm asking for at this point is something to help our survivability. If we're going to be glass cannons, we need a way to be a cannon, and fighting closer than the other warriors isn't helping that at all.

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Ironically, I never considered Aura to be significant, save for maybe the selected few potion-cooldown bosses. Isn't it being removed anyway?

And I think the Beholder fitted the old Drk theme well.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Beholders are extremely xenophobic.

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And anyone making a Drk back in the day had to either be very insane or very anti-social so as to want a class nobody else touches.

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Originally Posted by Kalovale

Ironically, I never considered Aura to be significant, save for maybe the selected few potion-cooldown bosses. Isn't it being removed anyway?

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500 doesn't seem like much, I'm aware. It just raises HP so I included it. And no, it isn't getting removed. I think it's a typo. It's suppose to say Achilles is removed, not Aura of the Beholder. I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but no changes were made.

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Originally Posted by ghostofhalo

500 doesn't seem like much, I'm aware. It just raises HP so I included it. And no, it isn't getting removed. I think it's a typo. It's suppose to say Achilles is removed, not Aura of the Beholder. I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but no changes were made.

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Instead of fixing the mistake I'm fixing the script. Hopefully I can have a better script prepared for tonight.

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Originally Posted by Sorien

Well that's better then, but it's still weaker than Charged Blow is without landing a crit. I just think Paladins shouldn't get to tank so well while still hitting harder than Dark Knights.

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U have no clue. dks have a multiplier of 1,49 , + With their New buffs(+90str) they Should be Hella Strong. My calculation have said dks will outdmg palas on neutral mobs

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Originally Posted by Fiel

Instead of fixing the mistake I'm fixing the script. Hopefully I can have a better script prepared for tonight.

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Oh, well my apologies then.

No need to apologize. You couldn't have known.

I should make a thread for this...

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Originally Posted by hamad138

U have no clue. dks have a multiplier of 1,49 , + With their New buffs(+90str) they Should be Hella Strong. My calculation have said dks will outdmg palas on neutral mobs

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Ah, well alright then. I guess I spent too much time comparing only the two mob skills, and not enough trying to see how much damage the class itself should be capable of with its many buffs on. I really need to get around to training my DK so that I won't be so uneducated about the class.

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Originally Posted by hamad138

U have no clue. dks have a multiplier of 1,49 , + With their New buffs(+90str) they Should be Hella Strong. My calculation have said dks will outdmg palas on neutral mobs

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But aren't spear/polearms slow compared to 1h swords?

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Originally Posted by hamad138

My calculation have said dks will outdmg palas on neutral mobs

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Then post your calculations.
I would like to see the numbers.

Glaive 6, Psb is even 5 fast. Not to mention they have higher atk than 1h. Wow due my calculation with dusk dpm chart all warriors do nearly the same DPM now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dante9898

But aren't spear/polearms slow compared to 1h swords?

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That has nothing to do with what he's saying. I haven't really bothered looking into the new +str skill since I'm still too depressed about our loss of dragon blood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kalovale

That has nothing to do with what he's saying. I haven't really bothered looking into the new +str skill since I'm still too depressed about our loss of dragon blood.

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Also he talked about + 90str when the skill only gave 30 O.o?

And if you gonna consider Weapon multiplier then you need to consider the weapon speed too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dante9898

Also he talked about + 90str when the skill only gave 30 O.o?

And if you gonna consider Weapon multiplier then you need to consider the weapon speed too.

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Pretty sure he meant +90 STR as in +30 from Physical Training in 2nd job & +60 from Dragon Strength(Blood).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dante9898

Also he talked about + 90str when the skill only gave 30 O.o?

And if you gonna consider Weapon multiplier then you need to consider the weapon speed too.

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glaives and ski's are normal 6, which is almost what everyone aims for, people with less funds go for slow 7 spears, and those with a lot of patience will get the fast 5 polearm (108 attack? 8 slots U/H)

so speed isn't much of an issue as it was before.

as for whoever asked about beholder, it was, according to maple lore, a very bad person who was purged/locked/something, until the point it ended being just that floaty-eye being, and the quests you had to do to get aura and hex, tell you that those were skills the beholder had, but they only released them until such a point (max level) because if they released more of his power, bad stuff could happen.

it's been a long while since i job advanced, but that was the gist of the beholder, and don't forget, in 4th job we aren't DRAGON knighjts anymore, but DARK knights, a lot of people have gotten to used to us spamming dragons during 4th job, which is why they say that this attack doesn't look like us, when it's the opposite (i do agree, it's kinda weird though.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

To the first one point, removing the chain effect of a skill called Chain Lightning is silly. I agree with the multi hit idea, but making any of those skills a one mob skill is silly.

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I still like my ideas I had for mages for Big Bang:

I/L: Make Chain Lightning so that if it hits only one mob, it actually multi-hits it for heavier damage. And if it hits multiple mobs (any # of mobs in area), the lightning spreads over all the mob. There you have a 1vs1 skill and a mob skill all in one. And it makes sense.

F/P: Make Paralyze do the same, except in 1vs1 it's just one big hit instead of multi-hits, and if there's a mob then the damage spreads over it. 1vs1 and mob skill all in one.

Bishops: Give us something that doesn't suck? Though it's not that bad now, now that the old leech ratio is back. The good ol' leeching ratio makes it semi-decent to be a "support" class, instead of a joke class with the current GMS leech ratio. Still, if they want us to be real supporters, give us realistic support skills, maybe a Regen magic, or a good Holy Shield. Bless is all good we got, and Heal is lol on 4th job training situations.

I really don't know why Nexon want to make BigBang into thunder element for I/L? :f7:

I hope they can change it..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abysseon

True, it would just become a thunder spear at that point but the same thing happened with blaze so it could go either way.

Elquines, Ifrit, and Bahamut could work as mounts for fun.
You just can't use them as a summon and a mount at the same time.

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It would look silly. The two AM summons have a roughly human shape, which means either you're getting a piggy back ride from them or your sitting on their head. While this would be funny for about the first time I rode the mount, the gimmic would wear off and I would just feel silly riding on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

To the first one point, removing the chain effect of a skill called Chain Lightning is silly. I agree with the multi hit idea, but making any of those skills a one mob skill is silly.

Also, El Quines or Ifrit into mounts doesn't work at all.

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If they removed the chain from Blaze, same should be applied for Chain Lightning to be fair:p

Also they need a single target dmg skill just so the option of bossing becomes more open to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

To the first one point, removing the chain effect of a skill called Chain Lightning is silly. I agree with the multi hit idea, but making any of those skills a one mob skill is silly.

Also, El Quines or Ifrit into mounts doesn't work at all.

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Well if you know anything about Physics, although this isn't a real Circuit, the Voltage over the entire circuit would be the same, and the Current wouldn't be even across all mobs if their resistance is the same, in other words same level/elemental resistances. Though I guess Dark Lighting is more like a circuit.

Anyway damage reduction is stupid, especially when I/L mages have it the hardest, not having an elemental advantage over LHC mobs, and always having to use Reset, while Evans/FP/BW have an advantage, Bishops are supporting, and Battle Mages just are better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kalemora

Paladins cast Threaten at bosses all the time. :f6:
And Slow's a lot more helpful than you think: it makes the monsters so much easier to pin. It's great to have at places like LHC. Why do you want to get rid of one our best skills?

I'd think I'd know too by the way, having played both Arch Mages in 4th job.

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One of our Best skills? Sure if you include everyone of our skills it will be just above Seal and Magic Compo on this list of pomegranate that sucks, at this point my argument is not whether you use or not, it's a joke contribution to the party, the best party skills Increase Damage or EXP, Medi does nothing to the party; Buff Mastery doesn't even lengthen Buff time for party members, and Meditation is only useful for other mages, but this is easily replaced by a pot, and exclusive pot to GMS, but the point still stands.

One more thing I hope they change is the sickening amount of Parallelism we have with FPs, they did it with Warriors diversifying them and defining their roles, how about a skill that increases DoT time, and a skill that allows I/L to Freeze/Stun bosses. Because right now it's almost as if they planned 1 class, but decided to make another change all the colors and elements and call it day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerry-Boyle

If they removed the chain from Blaze, same should be applied for Chain Lightning to be fair:p

Also they need a single target dmg skill just so the option of bossing becomes more open to them.

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So should Buccs also have their chain effect in energy orb removed, just to be fair? Evans and AMs have nothing in common besides being magic classes, so don't try to compare the two.

Why should we be stuck with single target bossing skills? Because another class got their skill changed to be single target? Besides, it doesn't even make sense to make CL a single target skill, even with multiple hits, since to make it just as useful against one enemy as it was against 3 it would have to do at least 2100% damge in total, which is unheard of for a skill of CL's speed and an AM's 75% mastery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kalovale

That has nothing to do with what he's saying. I haven't really bothered looking into the new +str skill since I'm still too depressed about our loss of dragon blood.

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Do you realize you get +60 STR from Dragon Strenght and u are able to use 20-25 watk pots now that wont get dispelled when ur doing HT/Czak n other stuff?
I find this skill amazing, and about the dark impaler i think they should lower the number of mobs and raise the dmg.. idk why but i dont like Sacrifice as our main atk skill, it has like no range .. i cant hit czak top arms o well im pretty sure they're still doing some changes to drks n other skills :D i like the new dblood cuz it'll stack with atk pots! +90 STR is amazing i hope it works with potentials

EDIT: Can anyone tell me if ... +20 speed from berserk means +20 walking speed or attacking speed...? i thought it was attacking speed so we're like with perma SI D:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

So should Buccs also have their chain effect in energy orb removed, just to be fair? Evans and AMs have nothing in common besides being magic classes, so don't try to compare the two.

Why should we be stuck with single target bossing skills? Because another class got their skill changed to be single target? Besides, it doesn't even make sense to make CL a single target skill, even with multiple hits, since to make it just as useful against one enemy as it was against 3 it would have to do at least 2100% damge in total, which is unheard of for a skill of CL's speed and an AM's 75% mastery.

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Chain Lightning and Blaze are exact copies of one another..that's why I compared the two.

Also never said all their skills need to be 1v1, I said one skill needs to be if they want to be accepted to boss runs.

Also Chaos Blaze is not equal to it's mobbing dmg output...that's 800%*6 give or take, why assume CL would be?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerry-Boyle

Chain Lightning and Blaze are exact copies of one another..that's why I compared the two.

Also never said all their skills need to be 1v1, I said one skill needs to be if they want to be accepted to boss runs.

Also Chaos Blaze is not equal to it's mobbing dmg output...that's 800%*6 give or take, why assume CL would be?

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Blaze is closer to energy orb than to CL. So I say again, should buccs have their energy orb only hit one target as well?

I forgot, Heros, Paladins, Shadowers, and Battle Mages are NEVER taken on boss runs because they have bossing skills that are also mob attacks. How silly of me!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

Blaze is closer to energy orb than to CL. So I say again, should buccs have their energy orb only hit one target as well?

I forgot, Heros, Paladins, Shadowers, and Battle Mages are NEVER taken on boss runs because they have bossing skills that are also mob attacks. How silly of me!

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Compare a I/L to a Warriors mobbing moves, who wins? Not the I/L, tis why they need an improvement either on their mobbing skills or 1v1 single target damage(it's an idea). Don't get so defensive. And Buccs need an improvement as well from my understanding, they got a lot of slow attacks(Slower then Evans if I'm not mistaken) D:

Going on a HUGE tangent to the topic at hand (the whole mage thingy), people mention over and over again that CB animations completely overshadow Blast's animations.

Considering that it took so long for them to change those, seeing a change in Blast doesn't seem that likely (I hope I'm wrong, though). If there is something that could be done, is to make the first part of CB new animation into Blast animation and Blast current animation into the first part of CB's new animation. :f2:

I... don't know if that was clear enough, though. :f6:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerry-Boyle

Compare a I/L to a Warriors mobbing moves, who wins? Not the I/L, tis why they need an improvement either on their mobbing skills or 1v1 single target damage(it's an idea). Don't get so defensive. And Buccs need an improvement as well from my understanding, they got a lot of slow attacks(Slower then Evans if I'm not mistaken) D:

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Making a class's only ranged mobbing skill into a single target skill is not a good solution.

I never said anything about Buccs needing an imrpovement, even though they could use a little buff.

You said

Quote:

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If they removed the chain from Blaze, same should be applied for Chain Lightning to be fair:p

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Which by that logic means that Buccs should have Energy orb changed to be one target, along with any other chain skill that any class has. Let's just forget the fact that Blaze was an Evan's what, third to fifth fire mob attack, which was out damaged by an 8th evolution single target attack, even though it's an evan's highest level attack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LegendGospel

I still like my ideas I had for mages for Big Bang:

I/L: Make Chain Lightning so that if it hits only one mob, it actually multi-hits it for heavier damage. And if it hits multiple mobs (any # of mobs in area), the lightning spreads over all the mob. There you have a 1vs1 skill and a mob skill all in one. And it makes sense.

F/P: Make Paralyze do the same, except in 1vs1 it's just one big hit instead of multi-hits, and if there's a mob then the damage spreads over it. 1vs1 and mob skill all in one.

Bishops: Give us something that doesn't suck? Though it's not that bad now, now that the old leech ratio is back. The good ol' leeching ratio makes it semi-decent to be a "support" class, instead of a joke class with the current GMS leech ratio. Still, if they want us to be real supporters, give us realistic support skills, maybe a Regen magic, or a good Holy Shield. Bless is all good we got, and Heal is lol on 4th job training situations.

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Could fix the issues with CL and Paralyze with a damage buff and a nerf to the chain/splash damage.

CL: 850% (-10% per target) to 350%x3 (-20%x3 per target)
Para: 770% (-6% to all per additional target) +140% DoT to 480%x2 (-12% to all per additional target) +160% DoT

It is impossible to make Bishops a real support class with Maple's current combat system. They should either be buffed to be on par with every other class damage-wise or completely revamped along with the Diablo 2-like pot spamming combat system.

They should do to Chain Lightning what they did to Aran's mobbing..

More targets = less damage. Say, a .9 multiplier for each additional target, or something like that.

1 Target = 850%
2 Targets = 765%
3 Targets = 688.5%
4 Targets = 619.6%
5 Targets = 557.7%
6 Targets = 501.9%

Obviously, the base damage should be higher than 850% if this was put in place...but I think it would work out pretty nicely. ;x

They already do that for chain lightning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

Making a class's only ranged mobbing skill into a single target skill is not a good solution.

I never said anything about Buccs needing an imrpovement, even though they could use a little buff.

You said



Which by that logic means that Buccs should have Energy orb changed to be one target, along with any other chain skill that any class has. Let's just forget the fact that Blaze was an Evan's what, third to fifth fire mob attack, which was out damaged by an 8th evolution single target attack, even though it's an evan's highest level attack.

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Stop bringing Buccs into here when we are discussing Mage's chain skills.
I'm just saying it's an idea for I/L and seems likely since Blaze and Chain Lightning aren't so different. Energy Orb is for a physical attacking class(And share similarities with CL&Blaze), so changes would have to be altered due to different multipliers(Meaning it wouldn't exactly be the same as it would for Mages who share the same multipliers) to balance in a perfect world.
For all we know, Nexon could give I/L a brand new skill to make up for their only ranged skill being altered to 1v1(Dr.K received a new skill). It's all up in the air, nothings concrete. You shouldn't be so opposed to changes that aren't even made yet, opens up the doors to be disappointed with any changes then I would say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fiel

They already do that for chain lightning.

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Really? Well, pineapple. Shows what I know. x.x

Do you know what the numbers on the reduction amount are or is it some hidden mystical formula?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phoenix Wright

Really? Well, pineapple. Shows what I know. x.x

Do you know what the numbers on the reduction amount are or is it some hidden mystical formula?

---

.9

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phoenix Wright

Really? Well, pineapple. Shows what I know. x.x

Do you know what the numbers on the reduction amount are or is it some hidden mystical formula?

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Multiplies by 0.9 for each additional mob past #1

1
0.9
0.81
0.729

etc.

Applied equally to all hits, or does it do an Iron Arrow sorta thing?

The number is randomized for each mob it hits. The % damage is lowered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerry-Boyle

Stop bringing Buccs into here when we are discussing Mage's chain skills.
I'm just saying it's an idea for I/L and seems likely since Blaze and Chain Lightning aren't so different. Energy Orb is for a physical attacking class(And share similarities with CL&Blaze), so changes would have to be altered due to different multipliers(Meaning it wouldn't exactly be the same as it would for Mages who share the same multipliers) to balance in a perfect world.
For all we know, Nexon could give I/L a brand new skill to make up for their only ranged skill being altered to 1v1(Dr.K received a new skill). It's all up in the air, nothings concrete. You shouldn't be so opposed to changes that aren't even made yet, opens up the doors to be disappointed with any changes then I would say.

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Evans and AMs don't really share the same multiplier. Yeah, they do for calculating the maximum damage, but Evans have 95% mastery while AMs only have 75%. If you compared an Evan and an AM side by side with the same equips, then the Evan would have a higher, more stable attack range and a higher chance to crit. Evans are a completely different class, so don't say that AMs should have a change to their main bossing and training skill just because a totally seperate class had a somewhat similar skill changed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IPunketOz

Do you realize you get +60 STR from Dragon Strenght and u are able to use 20-25 watk pots now that wont get dispelled when ur doing HT/Czak n other stuff?
I find this skill amazing, and about the dark impaler i think they should lower the number of mobs and raise the dmg.. idk why but i dont like Sacrifice as our main atk skill, it has like no range .. i cant hit czak top arms o well im pretty sure they're still doing some changes to drks n other skills :D i like the new dblood cuz it'll stack with atk pots! +90 STR is amazing i hope it works with potentials

EDIT: Can anyone tell me if ... +20 speed from berserk means +20 walking speed or attacking speed...? i thought it was attacking speed so we're like with perma SI D:

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I like my Blood. +60 STR is undoubtedly bigger a boost than 13 ATk for those crazy-funded with +9 50%-PamSong'ed and 7-star enhancement spears/PAs, but not necessarily for me or anyone average for that matter. The recent addition to WATK sources (rings, new weapon, Hex, etc) have brought my STR:WATK ratio over the 5:1 point, which means the extra 13 WATK from Blood can be more beneficial.

And no, you can't have ridiculouslyFast(-14) speed.

I think the point of the new Dragon's Blood is to allow the Dark Knight to use potions or gain benefits from Rage. While it's not a direct buff since you'll have to carry other potions or party with a Hero, you'll have more power in the long run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kalovale

I like my Blood. +60 STR is undoubtedly bigger a boost than 13 ATk for those crazy-funded with +9 50%-PamSong'ed and 7-star enhancement spears/PAs, but not necessarily for me or anyone average for that matter. The recent addition to WATK sources (rings, new weapon, Hex, etc) have brought my STR:WATK ratio over the 5:1 point, which means the extra 13 WATK from Blood can be more beneficial.

And no, you can't have ridiculouslyFast(-14) speed.

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You can spend maybe an hour at NeoCity farming energizers. These pots last 30 minutes and provide +25 w.atk. They have a fairly high drop rate, too. A pack of 100 of them lasts you 50 hours. This alone covers Dragon Blood. You can maintain the w.atk bonus and still benefit from the +60 STR gain. You're stronger either way. If you don't want to spend time farming the energizers, I recall seeing Energizers on Windia for 250k each. That's 25m to give you +25 w.atk for 50 hours. A good investment if you ask me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dusk

Could fix the issues with CL and Paralyze with a damage buff and a nerf to the chain/splash damage.

CL: 850% (-10% per target) to 350%x3 (-20%x3 per target)
Para: 770% (-6% to all per additional target) +140% DoT to 480%x2 (-12% to all per additional target) +160% DoT

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I could see chain lightning hitting 7 times.
(thunderbolt x3, thunder spear x5, chain lightning x7).

As for bishops, they should have an second effect for angel ray.
Ex. Chain Lightning having an additional critical chance, Paralyze giving damage over time, and Angel Ray?...

Also, if mages do get rebalanced in terms of bossing abilities, should nexon have an actual reason
to remove the elemental weapon bonuses as opposed to the reasons they gave during big bang?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fiel

Multiplies by 0.9 for each additional mob past #1

1
0.9
0.81
0.729

etc.

---

So after chaos orb always out damages DS unless DS is hitting 4+ targets. Orb currently only out damages DS when it is hitting more targets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShanghaiDizzy

You can spend maybe an hour at NeoCity farming energizers. These pots last 30 minutes and provide +25 w.atk. They have a fairly high drop rate, too. A pack of 100 of them lasts you 50 hours. This alone covers Dragon Blood. You can maintain the w.atk bonus and still benefit from the +60 STR gain. You're stronger either way. If you don't want to spend time farming the energizers, I recall seeing Energizers on Windia for 250k each. That's 25m to give you +25 w.atk for 50 hours. A good investment if you ask me.

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This explains my failed investment in stews.
I need a goddamned crystal ball, and not economics or common sense, to merchant in MS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dusk

It is impossible to make Bishops a real support class with Maple's current combat system. They should either be buffed to be on par with every other class damage-wise or completely revamped along with the Diablo 2-like pot spamming combat system.

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They already have the ground work. Just make pot-delay exist everywhere.
Problem is, then Maplestory would run the risk of being a mentally-involved game.
I've never played Diablo though, so maybe that system would work.
EDIT: It just occurred to me that a permanent pot-delay would eliminate any botter that relies on auto-pot to survive.

As for everyone talking about Charged Blow's speed "nerf", I'd like to point to this post.
And, if I'm not mistaken, all delays are, in reality, multiples of 30 so I'm not seeing an actual slow-down here.

Essentially, they just gave Palis a huge (and, might I say, unnecessary) buff.
Won't see me complaining though.

Pot delay everywhere sounds nice in theory but the massive differences in class HP, mobility, and recovery make that require an enormous change in the structure of the entire game for it to be fair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dusk

Pot delay everywhere sounds nice in theory but the massive differences in class HP, mobility, and recovery make that require an enormous change in the structure of the entire game for it to be fair.

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indeed, as a warrior, i can survive easily the 20 seconds of pot cooldown in dragon rider pq, can't say the same of my bowman/corsair friends :S so they would require a lot less exp to level up, or some sort of skill they can use to recover HP every X amount of time, to mix with pots

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kalovale

I like my Blood. +60 STR is undoubtedly bigger a boost than 13 ATk for those crazy-funded with +9 50%-PamSong'ed and 7-star enhancement spears/PAs, but not necessarily for me or anyone average for that matter. The recent addition to WATK sources (rings, new weapon, Hex, etc) have brought my STR:WATK ratio over the 5:1 point, which means the extra 13 WATK from Blood can be more beneficial.

And no, you can't have ridiculouslyFast(-14) speed.

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Oh, i thought it was +20 attacking speed meaning like u know, B4 bigbang berserk was 200% dmg, now its 60%, if we had this 60% berserk b4 bigbang it would be 160% so i thought +20 speed is like +2 speed now but ew :/ i got too excited about berserk giving us good speed for nothing ):

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dusk

Pot delay everywhere sounds nice in theory but the massive differences in class HP, mobility, and recovery make that require an enormous change in the structure of the entire game for it to be fair.

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Well, isn't that what they attempted to do with Big Bang?

Like I said, the structure is there. Most classes already have HP recovering skills.
They could also change the auto-heal that every class gets to activate constantly, that is, even when not standing still.

But don't get me wrong; an enormous change in the structure of the game would be welcome.
Hell, recode the whole thing so that reoccurring problems are dealt with.
Of course, this entire paragraph is but a dream.

Another vid of dark impale at neo city:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIsw5RdcbuI