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+---- Thread: [Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges (/showthread.php?tid=33706)
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Viaje - 2010-12-05
ghostofhalo Wrote:Whhhaaaaaaaaaat?What's to tell?
For real? All the videos would indicate 840ms. The only thing I can imagine is that Nexon Korea never changed Brave Slash's delay away from Brandish (the two share the same ID) and therefore uses 840ms instead of 1140ms.
If this is the case, DON'T TELL THEM!
Go check the The Restructuring | Delays & Ranges thread.
Intrepid Slash - 1140ms.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - ghostofhalo - 2010-12-06
I'm saying that if they are linking Brave Slash to Brandish's delay instead of its own delay, then Korea shouldn't need to know or it would kill any DPS the Hero has.
EDIT: Hopefully Fiel can check the Skills.wz file. Here's a video of a Post BB Hero using Brave Slash. The speed is almost identical if not the same as Brandish.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Dusk - 2010-12-06
How can you tell? He uses Soul Driver way too often and the FPS is terrible. Best to ask a GMST player that played a Hero. Or wait til Tuesday. Even with 1140 ms Brave Slash, Heroes aren't weak, anyway.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - JoeTang - 2010-12-06
Dusk Wrote:How can you tell? He uses Soul Driver way too often and the FPS is terrible. Best to ask a GMST player that played a Hero. Or wait til Tuesday. Even with 1140 ms Brave Slash, Heroes aren't weak, anyway.
Stereo had a Hero I'm fairly sure. I didn't hear any complaints about the speed, but best to ask in person.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Baklava - 2010-12-06
Brave Slash's animation is longer than Brandishes' so I'm guessing the 1140 somehow offsets as 840 when the animation is taken into consideration?
I don't know lol.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Stereo - 2010-12-06
JoeTang Wrote:Stereo had a Hero I'm fairly sure. I didn't hear any complaints about the speed, but best to ask in person.
It definitely wasn't slower than Crusher, and I was using a Normal speed weapon.
The animation is insanely huge though so it really should be slower than Brandish. It just.... doesn't look like a fast attack.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Bloodjedi - 2010-12-06
Good Luck for the extractions of the official BB Fiel!
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - ghostofhalo - 2010-12-06
Dusk Wrote:Even with 1140 ms Brave Slash, Heroes aren't weak, anyway.Assuming Brave Slash is 1140ms and Brandish is still 840ms, it would take a full 28 points in Brave Slash to beat Brandish in DPS. I think that sounds pretty weak.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Anonymous Moose - 2010-12-06
Dusk Wrote:How can you tell? He uses Soul Driver way too often and the FPS is terrible. Best to ask a GMST player that played a Hero. Or wait til Tuesday. Even with 1140 ms Brave Slash, Heroes aren't weak, anyway.
Actually, I did the math, and Heroes would only be superior to a Paladin against bosses that are resistant to all elements, zakum's arms and Pink Bean. Then of course, ACB would beat brandish in almost every mobbing situation.
Then to add insult to injury, in the handful of cases a Hero would be superior to a Paladin the Dark Knight would be vastly superior.
And to make it worse, the Paladin and Dark Knight have useful abilities to benefit the party (CO, HB, Threaten, etc.) while the Hero only can offer damage and the easy to replace Rage.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - IPunketOz - 2010-12-06
You forgot to add Sacrifice Delay, Dragon knight skill :o
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - OB3LISK - 2010-12-06
Lol you seem to have mixed up Ifrit being the IL skill and Elquines being the FP skill. It's up there as vice versa.
Not like it matters.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Phoenix - 2010-12-06
IPunketOz Wrote:You forgot to add Sacrifice Delay, Dragon knight skill :o
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Most unlisted skills tend to have the Standard 810ms (800ms rounded to 810ms) delay. In the case of the Bowman related skills, I'm certain this is the case.
^ I think that's the answer.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - ghostofhalo - 2010-12-06
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Actually, I did the math, and Heroes would only be superior to a Paladin against bosses that are resistant to all elements, zakum's arms and Pink Bean. Then of course, ACB would beat brandish in almost every mobbing situation.I too did the math. If Brave Slash is really 1140ms, it is the worst mobbing skill and is ranked lower than Blast and Sacrifice in one-on-one DPS (using Enrage). If Brave Slash is 840ms, it will be stronger than Sacrifice (unless the mob has high PDRate and only if/when it ignores it), ~20% weaker than Blast if the mob is weak to an element (element and weapon types vary) and ~10% stronger than Blast if the monster isn't weak or strong against an element. Zakum's arms only have resistances on the 2nd row (Fire and Ice resistance) which Holy and Lightning (Dual Charge) won't have any effect against. Pink Bean is also neutral to Lightning, so you still have +25% damage at bare minimum, but it's still plenty to beat Brave Slash with a 1140ms delay.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Mute - 2010-12-06
OB3LISK Wrote:Lol you seem to have mixed up Ifrit being the IL skill and Elquines being the FP skill. It's up there as vice versa.
Not like it matters.
Nope. After BB i/L's get elquines, and f/p's get Ifrit.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - ghostofhalo - 2010-12-06
Mute Wrote:Nope. After BB i/L's get elquines, and f/p's get Ifrit.This is true, just as Fire Demon and Ice Demon use to create a weakness the opposite element, it now creates a weakness to its own element.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - AceWiz - 2010-12-06
you guys factor in the 50% crit bonus going for blast right?
it has potential to do a lot more w/ decent SE + Crit ring + [crit potentials]
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - ghostofhalo - 2010-12-06
AceWiz Wrote:you guys factor in the 50% crit bonus going for blast right?Yes, sir, I did. I factored in everything about the class just shy of PDRate and Combat Orders (so Paladin would effectively be stronger).
it has potential to do a lot more w/ decent SE + Crit ring + [crit potentials]
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - byakugan - 2010-12-06
Reading about Brave Slash's delay just know flipped my stomach upside down. I never wished for heroes to be the best warrior (as this would keep bringing more and more bandwagoners to my job), but being the weakest warrior and possible one of the weakest jobs in 4th job all of a sudden? F'uck you nexon. I cannot even have any hopes that it will get fixed or at least get better, because as of now, KMS is nerfing it even further with the reorganization patch.
Sigh... I guess after BB, going 1handed is gonna be a must.
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - ghostofhalo - 2010-12-06
byakugan Wrote:Sigh... I guess after BB, going 1handed is gonna be a must.1H isn't going to save your DPS at all. Players go 1H to double on potential. If Brave Slash really ends up 1140ms, the Hero's DPS is as good as dead, but videos of post-BB indicate that the speed is no different than Brandish which is clearly possible as it is the same ID as Brandish is now (pre-BB). It could be a mistake. We'll have to wait until tomorrow before we nerd-rage (don't worry, I'm including myself there).
[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - MysticHLE - 2010-12-06
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Actually, I did the math, and Heroes would only be superior to a Paladin against bosses that are resistant to all elements, zakum's arms and Pink Bean.
And how about Horntail, the boss where a Hero can mob arm + legs + wings all at once due to the ridiculous range of Brandish/Intrepid (Brave) Slash?
ghostofhalo Wrote:1H isn't going to save your DPS at all. Players go 1H to double on potential. If Brave Slash really ends up 1140ms, the Hero's DPS is as good as dead, but videos of post-BB indicate that the speed is no different than Brandish which is clearly possible as it is the same ID as Brandish is now (pre-BB). It could be a mistake. We'll have to wait until tomorrow before we nerd-rage (don't worry, I'm including myself there).
Besides for bossing expectations based on the current status quo, logically, is there any particular reason why you'd expect a 3-hit triple mob skill to outdamage any specialized single target skill?
And it's quite interesting how we're getting the delays and ranges of Restructuring in our BB patch~ Good that Nexon can keep up with these changes in KMS. =)