Esoterics

So in light of the recent thread about creationist vs evolution, I started thinking about how people view the ideas of the people behind the scenes. Questions like do you think they are just as crazy religious people, do you even think they existed and acted in the capacity people claim the did and do and the like.

I'm referring to influential people in this realm such as Manly P. Hall, Francis Bacon, Benjamin Franklin, Aleister Crowley, Anton Szandor LaVey,the great families who control the federal banks (or who are claimed to control: Goldman Sachs, Rockefellers, Lehmans and Kuhn Loebs of New York; the Rothschilds of Paris and London; the Warburgs of Hamburg; the Lazards of Paris; and the Israel Moses Seifs of Rome).

Do many people even believe the stuff the are suspected of doing or does anyone even care in the first place. I want to get an opinion from the people of southperry since I seen some of your views on science and the like, partly because these influential people admittedly believe in alot more than just science they use it sure, but their ideas and actions go beyond regular thought patterns.

They are many videos you can find on the workings of these people, i'm sure any of you being learned in the ways of the internet can find them if you choose, but I wouldn't mind posting specific videos that claim to expose what these people were/are all about.

Your views gentlemen?

Your views gentlemen?

Don't forget the ladies too

I don't really concern myself too much with stuff that does not directly affect me. Yes, it is a short sited point of view, and yes, they all probably do affect me in some way or another (at varying strengths). But I don't care

Don't forget the ladies too

I don't really concern myself too much with stuff that does not directly affect me. Yes, it is a short sited point of view, and yes, they all probably do affect me in some way or another (at varying strengths). But I don't care

How could i forget the lovely ladies, shame on me . Typical guy on the net huh, "girls don't exist on the internet pfft," lol but thanks for your opinion, I suspect your view is the the general view by most on such things. Unless something directly affects someone people generally tend not to care.

I'm sorry, I don't what this thread is supposed to be about. Could you restate the subject matter that you want to discuss?

I live a life of neutrality (or try to anyway), life's too short to argue about the "small" stuff, however that does not mean i look down upon it, on the contrary, i find all the discussion absolutely fascinating and i enjoy reading every single bit about it.

Regarding Crowley and LaVey, a lot of people have skewed perspectives of them because of their so called "dark beliefs". Both were pagans, which already put them at a disadvantage in the eyes of the public. Crowley was labeled as a devil worshiper, simply because of his anti-christian beliefs and "prophetic" writings. But behind all of that he was a brilliant person, dark, yes, but incredibly smart. He wanted to move society forwards, free of guilt and prejudice; even if it was in a quite unusual way. Anton LaVey was the real satanist- but satanism isn't what most people seem to think it is. He founded the church of satan on the beliefs of not worshiping the devil but rather worshiping the body and worshiping yourself, which i think is admirable.

I'm sorry, I don't what this thread is supposed to be about. Could you restate the subject matter that you want to discuss?

The men behind that are infamous for being the puppet masters, do you think they really controlled things as many documentaries have pointed out? Or do you think it's a bunch of nonsense?

Regarding Crowley and LaVey, a lot of people have skewed perspectives of them because of their so called "dark beliefs". Both were pagans, which already put them at a disadvantage in the eyes of the public. Crowley was labeled as a devil worshiper, simply because of his anti-christian beliefs and "prophetic" writings. But behind all of that he was a brilliant person, dark, yes, but incredibly smart. He wanted to move society forwards, free of guilt and prejudice; even if it was in a quite unusual way. Anton LaVey was the real satanist- but satanism isn't what most people seem to think it is. He founded the church of satan on the beliefs of not worshiping the devil but rather worshiping the body and worshiping yourself, which i think is admirable.

[COLOR="#FFF0F5"]Interesting that you say he was labeled as a devil worshiper and not because he was, he called himself the beast/antichrist many times and there was alot of evidence of rituals, how is it that you have come to find him so......neutral or play him off as just a brilliant man when in his documentary the judge himself said he had never seen such wickedness. In regards to LaVey, worshiping yourself is one of the facets of satanism, they are many examples that can be found of them praising the upside down pentagram which is in itself worshiping satan, the other stuff such as indulging in the body and all that is against Christian beliefs, reasons like that is why satan and God are polar opposites. What they do is not just simple actions that are confined to be outside all other realms of thought and cannot be judged/compared to morals and ethics of right and wrong. They use the cop-out of "oh no we just USE satan as a symbol it's like not we really worship him hahaha," i'm sorry but anyone who falls for that isn't thinking very well. To do those things which they do wholeheartedly in essence makes them worshiper of satan, it's the difference between balance and indulgence, praising yourself rather than the creator and all that. There is a reason most of these things are labelled as occult practices.

In short what i'm trying to s is, how can one view these actions in a bubble and not realize the significance of them. I understand neutrality and not caring about them because they haven't directly influenced our life (which is debatable), but to know what their lives have entailed and still find a way to disregard it I find baffling.[/COLOR]

I think the most interesting aspect I find about your statements is that you seem not be to aware that certain actions have meanings beyond what you see them as, to give an example it's like a person going and stealing into someone's house and taking their food then saying "it's ok guys calm down I was hungry no need to label me as a criminal." Like claiming ignorance, I didn't know any better or it doesn't matter that much, which I have found the masses have always been readily willing to accept until something big happens which can be found in many examples of recent history if you look. I guess that's why Esotericism is what it is.

What the f'uck is this thread?

What the f'uck is this thread?

I assume you mean what the f'uck is this thread about. I can see it's quite a wide topic, but there is alot that is connected when you get into it, so i just addressed the whole idea of esoterics in relation to who some people see as influential in the way modern life has been designed. If you don't know about those people, you can look up some documentaries readily available on the net.

I'd rather not point anyone to any particular video because one video would lead to a biased view. Rather if you are interested, you would have to spend some time researching for yourself if you don't know already.

What you're trying to discuss is such a broad topic that I don't even think you know what you want to discuss. Or I should say, force your opinion on someone as you just did. Sorry but after that last thread I think any credibility you think you have on anything regarding science is now obliterated, but I guess we can only blame the cult feeding you so much propaganda for all these years.

What he's trying to talk about is if things like the Illuminati's world order are legitimate in your opinion. Think National Treasure, or these type of video's;

[video=youtube;mII9NZ8MMVM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM[/video]

[video=youtube;eZJoCfgAEuE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJoCfgAEuE[/video]

What you're trying to discuss is such a broad topic that I don't even think you know what you want to discuss. Or I should say, force your opinion on someone as you just did. Sorry but after that last thread I think any credibility you think you have on anything regarding science is now obliterated, but I guess we can only blame the cult feeding you so much propaganda for all these years.

What he's trying to talk about is if things like the Illuminati's world order are legitimate in your opinion. Think National Treasure, or these type of video's;

If you think about it, it's the same mindset as Creationism, or maybe theism in general. "Things don't just happen. There's a Guiding Hand," whether it is the hand of an all-powerful deity or of an inhumanly powerful human organization.

I think Jazeon knows exactly what he wants to discuss, but for some reason he doesn't want to pose the question directly for fear of "leading the witness" - with the result that his opening post is too vague to make sense out of.

Personally I don't believe in the Illuminati, the Elders of Zion, or any other age-old worldwide secret ruling conspiracy. Which I suppose is not surprising, considering I don't believe in God, Satan, angels, fairies, or anything else supernatural. Does that answer the question?

I think Jazeon knows exactly what he wants to discuss, but for some reason he doesn't want to pose the question directly for fear of "leading the witness" - with the result that his opening post is too vague to make sense out of.

Indeed hence why I refuse to link any videos, I want people to do research for themselves, then pose their opinions. But yeh after talking to alot of people i'm finding that generally people simply don't believe this stuff. I am trying to narrow down my speculations as to why that is, hence this thread and many others over the years every now and then. I guess I can sum it up with one statement "seeing is believing for most people." Yes it does answer the question.

@KanyeWest I wonder if you are ever going to get tired of your own bs, I actually hoped you had a legitimate opinion instead of the usual Ad hominem, but it seems you once again don't. What's even more ironic, is that you keep spouting this credibility stuff (second time i've seen you say that exact same sentence to me) as if you understand me in anyway, while cutting off any credibility you had for yourself. Talk about double edged attacks har .

This thread is stupid.

Ignore. Probably not needed

@KanyeWest I wonder if you are ever going to get tired of your own bs, I actually hoped you had a legitimate opinion instead of the usual Ad hominem, but it seems you once again don't. What's even more ironic, is that you keep spouting this credibility stuff (second time i've seen you say that exact same sentence to me) as if you understand me in anyway, while cutting off any credibility you had for yourself. Talk about double edged attacks har .

I'm not sure if you realize it yet but when you do @kanyewest it does jack sh`it. You have to spell it out because the FUNCTION of that is to mention someone. The thing is it's not only me with the problem with the thread. In fact I have given it almost a week now and no one has responded with anything substantial because you can't either;

1) As sapta implied, be fully honest
2) Can't organize your thoughts

I base my opinion based on what you post, I don't have to know your personal history to understand how illogical your stances are based on lack of research. Then this thread is spawned where you demand, hypocritically, people do their own research so they can formulate an opinion. I'm sorry but this is coming from someone who has doubts of carbon dating because we can't date f`ucking dinosaurs?

The difference is, I took your credibility, while you try to deflect the same on me. I'm not sure what credibility you're even suggesting, since as you said, I didn't put my opinion on the subject, just, once again, had to pull your weight to explain what the f`uck you're on about, since you're helpless to do so on your own evidently.

Lastly, once again, you have no stated anything to contradict anything I've said, suggested, or anything besides your personal opinion of me, which I don't even think other people even care about.

Isn't this another conspiracy theory kind of thing? No actual proof, just a bunch of guesses, trying to make random selected "facts" fit some sort of storyline that to some degree somehow kinda sorta somewhat almost slightly makes sense and miraculously explains "everything". I've read numerous articles and opinions of why random individuals don't believe in those and they could explain a lot to you, someone who is guessing why people don't believe in them.

Regardless, I don't believe your purpose for this thread was "learning why people don't believe in these conspiracy theories". Your reply to HumSofly doesn't question why he believes what he believes but it's more like a statement that he's wrong and that this information you might have makes it wrong. But without having a look at your information or where you got it from I actually went on with a fast search for a documentary on some of them and results were rather... hilarious. HumSoftly had an actual point when he said that a lot of people had skewed perspectives on some of them but you didn't even address that.

I always liked this chart because it was humorous and simple and it shares some of the reasons why I don't believe in conspiracy theories. http://www.cracked.com/funny-44-conspiracy-theories/
My favorite line is

They're like Rambo with bullpomegranate instead of bullets.

EDIT:

In fact I have given it almost a week now and no one has responded with anything substantial because you can't either;
1) As sapta implied, be fully honest
2) Can't organize your thoughts

I saw this thread when it had no replies and I would've replied with what I just did. Problem was I couldn't really understand right away because of how it was written and didn't even bother reading it again, just dismissed it as nonsense. I loved Swerve's reply though.

Then this thread is spawned where you demand, hypocritically, people do their own research so they can formulate an opinion.

This is one reason why this thread will probably go nowhere.

EDIT:Well I hope this thread turns out okay. :/

I don't expect much people to find it fascinating or interesting tbh, I asked quite alot straight forward questions and I mentioned who I wanted the questions to be about but i don't want to influence anyone when first coming up with a view point. Sorry if it comes off as vague and unintelligible, hard to avoid given the constraints.

1)Do you think they are just as crazy religious people?
2)Do you even think they existed and acted in the capacity people claim the did and do?
3)Do many people even believe the stuff they are suspected of doing?
4)Does anyone even care in the first place?

"I'm referring to influential people in this realm such as Manly P. Hall, Francis Bacon, Benjamin Franklin, Aleister Crowley, Anton Szandor LaVey,the great families who control the federal banks (or who are claimed to control: Goldman Sachs, Rockefellers, Lehmans and Kuhn Loebs of New York; the Rothschilds of Paris and London; the Warburgs of Hamburg; the Lazards of Paris; and the Israel Moses Seifs of Rome)."

Does that make it simpler to understand the questions? Those were all taken from my first post.

And yes i'm aware this is in the circle of conspiracy. No i'm trying not to change anyone's mind on the matter, if you read my reply to HumSoftly you would see I was more interested in understanding why and how he came to those conclusions. I did address the skewed perspective people draw, which was the very last paragraph that I didn't whiteout because that was the main focus of my reply, the rest was more like thoughts out-loud in which asked how did he come to that conclusion given the evidence. I did not say he was outright wrong, I tried to show the implications of the actions by those people hence the example of the thief, and how people may view it as insignificant even though there is proof.

@Kanye West, i'm not trying to mention you i'm comparing to the kanye west because of your name and attitude, not sure if you are being ignorant on purpose or not tbh. I'm also not trying to prove my worth to anyone or my credibility, this is a forum, one of many I use, i'm putting stuff on the board and absorbing the responses for my own reasons, i'm not here on a maple forum to change the attitude or opinion of the world *facepalm*. I don't come on here to be politically correct so that i'm deemed respectable in your and anyone else's eyes on this forum. If anyone sees my way of doing things unsuitable so be it, move on to another thread, i'm here to gather opinions through my method. Doesn't really matter to me if you can understand it or not, it works either way for me.

Sorry if that offends but this is the internet, it exists for my personal gain and not to evaluate my self-worth. I try to give helpful responses from time to time in other threads to promote good forum morale, but other times I have very selfish reasons.

@Kanye West, i'm not trying to mention you i'm comparing to the kanye west because of your name and attitude,

Okay I'm f`ucking el oh eling now.

THE NAME IS PARODY OF KANYE WEST. KHAINI=KANYE. It's like your pointing out the joke as if this was the intentional purpose...lmao

not sure if you are being ignorant on purpose or not tbh. I'm also not trying to prove my worth to anyone or my credibility, this is a forum, one of many I use, i'm putting stuff on the board and absorbing the responses for my own reasons, i'm not here on a maple forum to change the attitude or opinion of the world *facepalm*.

Yet your purpose wasn't too absorb any information. The only poster you essentially berated as if she was uneducated on the subject. And prove your worth?

You post your opinion. Your opinion gives you as a user value. It doesn't matter if it's intentional or not, so when you post things that are factually, LIES, then you lose that worth. So it doesn't matter what you want to do.

I don't come on here to be politically correct so that i'm deemed respectable in your and anyone else's eyes on this forum. If anyone sees my way of doing things unsuitable so be it, move on to another thread, i'm here to gather opinions through my method. Doesn't really matter to me if you can understand it or not, it works either way for me.

...Considering I'm the one who had to essentially explain what you were talking about, after you tried what, 3 times? I think I understand it better than you, ironically. I'm not sure where you're getting this respect nonsense, or anything in the rest of that sentence.

Sorry if that offends but this is the internet, it exists for my personal gain and not to evaluate my self-worth. I try to give helpful responses from time to time in other threads to promote good forum morale, but other times I have very selfish reasons.

....Do you know what credibility is and why yours is sinking in quick sand?