Which of the two Thief dagger classes now feels better to play?

[IllegallySane]

Just wondering as to with all the changes done to both Dual Blades and Shadowers, are Dual Blades still the way to go, or have Shadowers stolen the spotlight now as best class? Survivability will also be a factor, and seeing Shadowers get 60% damage reduction later on it seems Shadowers are better to play if you're not caring about funding, but would like opinions from other players first.

[MuscleWizard]

dual blades are so much fun now that they don't suck as much.

[Fius]

Dual Blade still flows well, and now the damage is great too. Can't say much about the damage reductions and whatnots, since my CB is only level 9X. But if Shads are anything like DBs, you shouldn't be getting hit at all.
Soo, I can vouch for Bladders being fun and stronk, can't say much about Shads.

[CarrionCrow]

9999 avoid will make even Empress miss you at pretty much 100% rate on a DB, and that should go for the other thieves too.
As for the difference between Shads and DBs I can't say much, but between my 200 NL and DB, the DB is much more fun to play. I do miss the range of the NL on stuff like PB statues though.

[Mazz]

Dual Blades are much more fluid and as a result more fun to play. Blade Fury is kind of annoying and I sorely miss Meso Explosion but post-revamp Shadowers aren't what they used to be.

[Mandalay]

I have both, with the DB being 200 and shad as 184. Still would be DB for me. Granted, I do miss some perks of the shadower (like seeing giant walls of numbers from ME and Meso Guard) but DB's avoid and offensive capability made up for it.

Only thing I miss about my NL was hitting PB statues easily.

[IllegallySane]

The fact all the posts so far are all in favor in Dual Blades is really cementing the choice. On the other hand, I'm a bit upset that I forgot to check that the Dual Blade Mutiny even stated that new Dual Blades can no longer be made after the 4th, so I'm stuck with a weak 5x Dual Blade with 90 DEX.

You make a Dual Blade event that goes up to the 24th, but you remove them on the 4th. NEXON LOGIC.

[emailbox]

I actually like my shadower better, but I have to concede that Dual Blades are superior in pretty much every way. More consistent DPS, pretty much 100% avoidability if you have any sort of funding, and way better mobbing with the various Rush skills and such. Blegh.

[Foxino]

Dual Blades are much more fluid and as a result more fun to play. Blade Fury is kind of annoying and I sorely miss Meso Explosion but post-revamp Shadowers aren't what they used to be.

So true.. I love my shadower but they're missing something since the revamp.

-cough- assaulter maybe.. -cry-

[Felicitates]

I wasn't sure if this was a serious question at first because of how obvious the answer is.

[66alex66]

i got both, DB is fun because it's so fluid and has nice mobbing, shads are tanks but seeing NLs with BoT makes me feel really sad and i hop back onto my DB

[IllegallySane]

I wasn't sure if this was a serious question at first because of how obvious the answer is.

Well I wasn't too sure. JoeTang's damage calculations shows that Shadowers deal more damage than Dual Bladers, which on top of Meso Guard mean it's a class that's both tough and deals the most damage out of the non-Legend Thieves. However, seeing pretty much everyone here likes their Dual Bladers over Shadowers, I see playstyle is trumps raw class mechanics like Meso Guard and doing a little more damage. There's also the fact I didn't know that even with revamps to Shadowers, that Dual Bladers are still more fluid to play (a big factor).

[ultimax21]

Survivability like someone else said, DBs do better than shads due to the ridiculously high avoid chance. From personal experience, when I get potential locked on Empress I still dodge at nearly 80% rate sitting in her body. Meanwhile... my phantom gets smacked around some quite a bit if potential locked, if shads and NLs share the same avoid then they don't have anywhere near the dodging chance. 9k still gets you flung around by Echart for NLs. For what CarriowCrow said, you don't even need cap avoid for DBs, in fact 5k avoid would already take the cake however, you'd need cap avoid for NL just to match that dodging rate (excuse me if I'm wrong about NL vs Shad dodging chances).

As for concerning the "damage calculations" I hate to say this but, I don't believe everything is factored in for the outputs. I know personally I can activate 100% critical rate on a DB 24/7 as long as I have something in my face to attack. Reason is quite simply shadow meld activating every 0.5 secs if not faster (duration 1.0 secs) while I sit in the bosses bodies without taking a single hit. If you care about the "meso guard" part you can also stick a DB puppet to absorb 20% of the damage. If you really are poorly funded learn mirror target early but, not many people would be learning this until late game. It is also the reason why DBs have high dodging rates though, which is the perks. Since I don't own a shad I wouldn't be able to compare correctly for you but, its true that DBs will have more consistent damage.

I still dislike the lame ass blade fury sounds though, I need to file a complaint or something .

[Stereo]

What do people mean by flow on a DB, that each move (attack/FJ/etc.) always links to specific other one? Is it like Aran/BaM, where you have to chain moves in a specific order to get access to stronger ones?

Have a level 5x DB, nothing in 1st/2nd jobs has appealed so far (attacks are hideously slow) but I'm curious what comes later.

[66alex66]

mobs spawn so you FJ out of it, turn around mid air and assualter, then tornado them into a wall, use upperstab to launch them and then bloody storm to finish them off or just spam fury, FJ until the next mob spawns or to the next mob
shadowers phase dash until the mob is at a wall, use carnival/BS for coins and kill off with ME
i like that DBs move while attacking, but shadowers have to wait for coins to drop to do any decent damage, which is part of the reason why i don't like that the revamp took out BoT

[Niernen]

Dual Blades need 2 skill books...

[Cere]

Huh, "Multiquote this message" is too long to fit. Wonder why it changed from the old... whatever it said before, +quote or something?

Well I wasn't too sure. JoeTang's damage calculations shows that Shadowers deal more damage than Dual Bladers, which on top of Meso Guard mean it's a class that's both tough and deals the most damage out of the non-Legend Thieves. However, seeing pretty much everyone here likes their Dual Bladers over Shadowers, I see playstyle is trumps raw class mechanics like Meso Guard and doing a little more damage. There's also the fact I didn't know that even with revamps to Shadowers, that Dual Bladers are still more fluid to play (a big factor).

AFAIC, playstyle always trumps sheer damage (as long as damage isn't so low that the player gets a bad case of green-eyed inferiority complex). If I get bored, I'm hardly going to be able to appreciate the damage, after all :P

Dual Blades need 2 skill books...

During this past event, one of the skill books was provided upon a certain job advance or something for free.

[IllegallySane]

AFAIC, playstyle always trumps sheer damage (as long as damage isn't so low that the player gets a bad case of green-eyed inferiority complex). If I get bored, I'm hardly going to be able to appreciate the damage, after all :P

My main character is a Buccaneer, so I know how shoddy it is to play a class all about unique play style but damage being so sad the only class we were beating in damage on a consistent basis were mages.

[MrTouchnGo]

Well I wasn't too sure. JoeTang's damage calculations shows that Shadowers deal more damage than Dual Bladers, which on top of Meso Guard mean it's a class that's both tough and deals the most damage out of the non-Legend Thieves. However, seeing pretty much everyone here likes their Dual Bladers over Shadowers, I see playstyle is trumps raw class mechanics like Meso Guard and doing a little more damage. There's also the fact I didn't know that even with revamps to Shadowers, that Dual Bladers are still more fluid to play (a big factor).

%ps =/= dps

[IllegallySane]

%ps =/= dps

It's still a good indication of damage. If one class does 50% more damage of another class, it pretty much means given equal gearing the first class will always hit harder unless the person is playing badly. The %s of DB and Shadowers were much closer, but Shadowers still gave the impression they were buffed enough that if you give both classes roughly the same gear the Shadower will win out in the long run. But again I got fellow Dual Bladers (some who also played Shadowers) prove me that Dual Blades are still better.