need help with the damage formula and skills.

[ShinkuDragon]

we all know the damage formula, but i need help with how it works when calculating ranges, for example attk gets rounded down before being put into the formula, and such

also, i need an answer to these questions:

is dark aura still a %attack bonus (it states it's a %damage bonus, but that's wrong)
i heard some aran buff now displays in their range rather than being simply passive, what's the name of this buff, and anyone knows if it's truly %dmg, or if it's %attack?

which other buffs increase % damage, but show in your stat window?
ones i know are:
A/DA (is %attack)
Echo (is %attack)
and that'd be it.



formula i had for damage range was:

multiplier * (round down:[attk*%attk]) * {[round down:([{round down:[base main stat*MW]}+ static main stat]*%main stat)]*4 + [round down:([{round down:[base secondary stat*MW]}+ static secondary stat]*%secondary stat)]} / 100

anyone notice any mistakes with it? not sure if the main stat*4 multiplier is placed correctly


also, does the top range round up? i think it did, but not sure, i know minimum range rounded down though.
thanks stereo for that, still looking for help with the rest.

[Vanderlust]

Aran's snow charge started adding into your range at the legend patch. It's pretty much a hard constant onto your real range (multiply by 1.35).

Some other ones:

1) Mercedes AW
2) DS DM (intended, not implemented)
3) Pirates Dice
4) Cannoneer Cannon Overload (?)

[GoreParadise]

Dark Aura is WATK/MATK bonus, displays in your range

[Shidoshi]

Dark Aura is WATK/MATK bonus, displays in your range

atk/matk bonus obviously affect your range, there's no need to mention Rage, Meditation, Buff Mastery, etc.

[ShinkuDragon]

atk/matk bonus obviously affect your range, there's no need to mention Rage, Meditation, Buff Mastery, etc.

i'm not counting those precisely because they're not %based, yea, i'm looking for buffs that are %based.

has any aran around bothered checking if their snow charge is %attack?

[Shidoshi]

Well, just gonna say Elemental Amplification does not affect damage range.

[Thorr]

Well, just gonna say Elemental Amplification does not affect damage range.

This is correct for all mage classes. But, of note, Evan's Dragon Fury does show in the damage range. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work quite right. When I calculate my damage unbuffed damage range, I hit the numbers perfectly (Fury off). However, when I have Fury on, my visible damage range is a bit less than what it should be. It's only about 150 points less, but it's different nonetheless. It's supposed to be a 35% damage increase. My visible damage range calcs to be about 134.46% of the unbuffed range. Strange.

[ShinkuDragon]

This is correct for all mage classes. But, of note, Evan's Dragon Fury does show in the damage range. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work quite right. When I calculate my damage unbuffed damage range, I hit the numbers perfectly (Fury off). However, when I have Fury on, my visible damage range is a bit less than what it should be. It's only about 150 points less, but it's different nonetheless. It's supposed to be a 35% damage increase. My visible damage range calcs to be about 134.46% of the unbuffed range. Strange.

do me a favor, add up all of your M.attk, then multiply that by 1.35 (if your weapon has %magic attack, add it to fury) and calculate your damage range.
or give me the number for total m.attk you have, total int and luk (don't forget to count attack from skills like empress blessing and whatnot.)

[Stereo]

This is 131 attack + 24 bless + whatever snow charge gives (description: 35%). Don't have the time atm to figure out whether it's %atk based on this.


And 130 attack


128 (note stats also changed)


127


Hopefully at least one of those will round differently depending if it's %atk or %dmg.

[Thorr]

do me a favor, add up all of your M.attk, then multiply that by 1.35 (if your weapon has %magic attack, add it to fury) and calculate your damage range.
or give me the number for total m.attk you have, total int and luk (don't forget to count attack from skills like empress blessing and whatnot.)

I already barked up that tree. Since the bonus is multiplicative it doesn't matter where you put it in the equation. I have done Range * 1.35, MA only * 1.35, MA/100 * 1.35, etc. It always creates the same result (29304)

For posterity, here are the source numbers:
Int 1613 (matches the screen)
Luk 166 (matches the screen)
MA 328 (not visible on the screen. Includes all passive bonuses.)
Visible range without Fury - 20622-21707
Visible range with Fury - 27726-29185

Non-Fury calcs
1.00*(4 * INT + LUK) * (Magic Attack / 100)
1.00*(4 * 1613 +166) * (328 / 100) = 21707 (matches screen)

Fury calcs
V1) 1.00*(4 * INT + LUK) * (Magic Attack / 100) * 1.35
1.00*(4 * 1613 + 166) * (328 / 100) * 1.35 = 29304 (does not match 29185)

V2) 1.00*(4 * INT + LUK) * (Magic Attack * Fury / 100)
1.00*(4 * 1613 + 166) * (328 *1.35 / 100) = 29304 (does not match 29185)

The closest I can come to making the range correct is to use 35% as a simple MA%. The 328 MA I have is 322 with 2% MA (+6). If I calc Fury as part of that and use it as 37% MA then the calc becomes:

V3) 1.00*(4 * INT + LUK) * (Magic Attack * Fury / 100)
1.00*(4 * 1613 + 166) * (322 *1.37 / 100) = 29195 (does not match 29815, but close enough to be in rounding error range)

This may be the answer.

EDIT - It is the answer. I plugged it into my Excel sheet and now I get the exact range of 29185. At least now I know exactly how Fury is figured.

[ShinkuDragon]

The closest I can come to making the range correct is to use 35% as a simple MA%. The 328 MA I have is 322 with 2% MA (+6). If I calc Fury as part of that and use it as 37% MA then the calc becomes:

V3) 1.00*(4 * INT + LUK) * (Magic Attack * Fury / 100)
1.00*(4 * 1613 + 166) * (322 *1.37 / 100) = 29195 (does not match 29815, but close enough to be in rounding error range)

This may be the answer.

EDIT - It is the answer. I plugged it into my Excel sheet and now I get the exact range of 29185. At least now I know exactly how Fury is figured.

that's exactly where i was going, yea, say you used dark aura and echo on top of that, it should become

(magic attack* [1+0.35+0.04+0.20])

they stack additively.

thhanks a lot for the SS's stereo, i'll get on them just now.

edit: getting interesting results with those SS's of yours (1&2) doing the formula:

1.49*(645*4 +62)/100
39.3658, missing attk and snow charge

ss1 is 155 attk, if we do:

snow charge as %attack
155*1.35=209.25 = 209
209*39.3658 = 8227.45 doesn't match

however, if we do the formula, round down, then apply snow charge:
155*39.3658=6101.699 = 6101
6101*1.35 = 8236.35

rounded up it would be correct, however if we don't round down before using the 6101.699 we get 8237.29...

let me run the second SS, should have the answer.
-----------------------------

-----------------------------
154*39.3658= 6062.3332

rounding down there:
6062*1.35 = 8183.7

rounding down after the calc:
6062.3332*1.35 = 8184.14

weird stuff, the first formula is closer, but if it rounded up it would end up not matching, so it always rounds down i guess?

if that's the case (and it seems to be) then formula goes
round down:{[round down:(dmg formula)]*1.35}

and it IS %damage instead of %attack, as proven by these two (second formula rounded attack down from 209.9, which gave a very different result at the end due to the loss of almost 1 attack.)

[Stereo]

How about with a % total dmg weapon...



There's a 1% difference in damage which should show up depending if it adds or multiplies (1.38 or 1.3905) but that's not all that fun to test.

If anyone on Bera wants to loan me something with a bit more oomph (ie. 15-20% total dmg, or bossing) then I could be more certain of getting results. None-polearms are better because as you can see the 35% damage boost does show up, but they can't gain combos.

vs. Brown Teddies - 10% PDR - I have 1% ignore pdr from Ambition + 25% from Cleaving Blows.
Theoretical max is 5800 without bonus - either 5974 (mult.) or 5929 (additive).
Theoretical min is 1159 without bonus - either 1194 (mult.) or 1185 (additive).
Neither of these is a very large margin to hit unfortunately...

ed: so far have only seen 1199-5929, not quite conclusive.

Another edit: Hit 5942, so this bonus is multiplicative with %total dmg. (and presumably %bossing)

[ElderTree]

Thorr:

The %'s are added. 322 base MA * 1.37 = 441.14 = 441 (truncated)
Then:
Max range = 6618 (stats) * 4.41 = 29,185.38 = 29,185 (truncated)

[ShinkuDragon]

that's cool to know, zerk is also multiplicative of other boosts like %dmg/%boss, this makes me wonder, has anyone actually tested if %boss and %damage are additive, or multiplicative?

unfortunately i'd require some pretty godly weapon to test this, and i doubt anyone would be willing to lend me a 10+%dmg with 30+%boss (feel free to prove me wrong though )

[Stereo]

I could put the 10% bossing from my DS on the Aran but on the whole figuring out 13% vs. 10%*3% is not my idea of a good time. I'd like to at least have a 9% total dmg weapon.

[ShinkuDragon]

I could put the 10% bossing from my DS on the Aran but on the whole figuring out 13% vs. 10%*3% is not my idea of a good time. I'd like to at least have a 9% total dmg weapon.

guess the best way to figure out would be to have a DB/mercedes with both potentials on his weapons

[ShinkuDragon]

double posting to not have to make another thread, i found these browsing through the site:

Weapon Type	Multiplier
1H Sword	1.20
1H Axe	1.20
1H BW	1.20
Dagger	1.30
Wand	1.00
Staff	1.00
Barehands	1.43
2H Sword	1.32
2H Axe	1.32
2H BW	1.32
Spear	1.49
Polearm	1.49
Bow	1.20
Crossbow	1.35
Claw	1.75
Knuckler	1.70
Gun	1.50

[/spoiler]

and these

Weapon Type	Base Mastery	Included Weapons
Ranged	15%	Bows, Crossbows, Claws, Guns
Melee	20%	Swords, Axes, Blunt Weapons, Spears, Polearms, Knucklers
Magic	25%	Staves, Wands

they seem to be correct to current standards, but i couldn't find the multiplier for the new classes (bowgun, cannon, and the upcoming cane)

questions would be:
which is the multiplier of these? (seems to be buried in SP, so i figure it's easier to ask)
did any of these multipliers change between now and the point at which KMS is?
the new three weapons, which base mastery do they count as?

------------------------------

------------------------------
at stereo below:
i believe ya no problem, i remember reading of that change while browsing around, guess i forgot to check thorougly the chart.

ugh, guess i'll have to google harder

saving the post if i get any other questions (which i'll eventually have i'm sure.)

[Stereo]

2h weapons are 1.34 now, you can check it on my Helios SS [weapon is 23 atk less, the rest is the same, so 132 attack: 1.34*132*1.35*[641*4+59]/100 = 6263.4] but it works out that way on my Paladin too.

[ShinkuDragon]

i ran some numbers into the excel calculator i'm doing, and i'm kind of stumped again,every time i calculate my range, the only way to get it to match is to make the ending number after the damage formula round normally, however, this doesn't match the above aran thing i did

hnnngh.

[VerrKol]

@ShinkuDragon Bow multiplier was changed to 1.3x (in JUMP iirc).

Not sure if you would consider it a "buff", but Spirit Link skill description says "Total Damage" yet changes the damage range. It does actually change my range exactly 15%.

28454 goes to 32722
28454*.15+28454=32722.1

Seems to check out