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  1. Default Full Meso Explosion Formula

    The Bag Conundrum

    The Formula

    What's the most efficient amount of mesos to drop?
    Last edited by Fiel; 2010-06-12 at 08:34 PM.

  2. Brick
    IGN: BushidoClown
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 15x
    Job: Ex BattleMage
    Guild: Contagious
    Alliance: No Clue.


    BMS...unlocking all of MS's secrets.

  3. Default

    Still needs to be tested though. No one has tested this formula yet, though I'm pretty sure it's accurate given the source. Also, while I'm fairly sure the formula is right, I still may be using it wrong, so it needs further testing.

  4. Default

    If this formula's true, the optimum meso/damage is pretty easy:
    10 mesos times 15 is the most efficient use of your mesos. (106 damage per meso, maxed)

    You get 15 hits of just over 1k each for 150 mesos. It's not that practical though.

    You can fool with the level/number of bags in column E, A is the total number of mesos (automatically filled in) and G tells you how many mesos per bag.

    B & C are per-hit damage, F is the average over all hits.

    Bags of 2800 will give you 90% of the damage you get from bags of 50,000... 1300 will give you 80%.

    If you're dropping bags, 15 makes more sense, since total damage is based on # of mesos, and 15 takes less time than 20.

  5. Default

    Thanks a lot Fiel, as always :).
    It'll help out lots of Shadowers/CDit out there, also on my progress of server sidded physical attack handling.

    The secret can be unlocked via an unpacked MapleStory.exe since the damage is also handled by the client for show then calculated by server for anti cheat purposes.

    IGN: Overburnd
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 210
    Job: Cannoneer
    Guild: Contagious


    Now all we need is the pickpocket formula. ^^ Great find, guys.

  7. Default

    Guhhh, same here! It was such a pain being a shad and not knowing exactly how much I would do.
    Fiel, you're amazing.

  8. Default

    I don't think the part about the meso total is correct. Each bag deals a different amount of damage that is not tied only to the total amount of mesos dropped. If my memory serves me correctly, damage from Pickpocket coins is very noticeably less than damage from dropped bags, even if you explode them in the same attack. When training, there's usually have a lot of Pickpocket coins lying around, with a few meso bags from the monsters you were killing. Whenever I used ME, I saw a lot of little numbers from the Pickpocket coins, but there would always be a couple of numbers in the thousands from the bags.

  9. Default

    Fiel missed a step in simplifying his code.

    The pointer to anMoneyAmount is incremented at the same time as the attack number.

    So it's looking through an array of meso values, not using a single one for all 15 hits.

    This code should be sufficient for 1 hit, 1 bag though. And I don't know how the meso array is populated.

    Paraphrasing, slightly
    dwDropFlag tells it which of the 15 drops (probably first x, for number of bags under 15) are valid.
    I'll assume it's a boolean array of 15 bits, ie dwDropFlag[i] is ok pseudocode (easier than (1<<i)&dwDropFlag, imo)
    for (int i=0,i<15,i++) {
      if (dwDropFlag[i]) {
       do Fiel's code on anMoneyAmount[i] and store to damage[i];
    Result being that some fraction of the 15 hits are populated with damage amounts.

    There is one oddity I saw in the code...

    It initializes 7 32-bit random variables.
    It then loops through these to provide the damage random function.
    So hit #1, #8 and #15 are gonna do the same damage. And so forth.

    Anyway, the method for filling *anMoneyAmount needs to be clarified to have a full understanding of the skill. If it's taking into account 20 meso bags, it shouldn't just be the quantities of the first 15, and why would they repeat the total 15 times? (maybe it blows the last 5 just to be a plantain to people who drop hundreds of bags at once?)

  10. Default

    The good part about this function is that it's only called from one other place. The problem is that I don't have the stuff filled out as well as ZakumSlayers, so it's harder for me to see struct/variable names like he does (though I can see class/method names).

  11. Default

    Apologize for the double post, but I think this warranted it.

    I calculated the following scenario, "Assuming you drop 20 bags of 10k or 50k and explode them all, which level of ME would give the greatest amount of damage for your meso?"

    This is calculating the damage bag by bag and adding up the damage. The values displayed are the minimum amount of damage. The maximum damage is exactly double the value listed.

     10k bags50k bags

    The answer is level 20 ME. That is the most cost efficient level for mesos. However, it might not be the most DPS efficient. Everything up to level 25 takes two explosions to fully wipe out all 20 bags. Level 26 and beyond only takes one explosion. So if you want to calculate by DPS, Maxing ME is your best bet since you only have to explode once and not twice. But level 20 is easily the meso efficiency champion.

    IGN: Overburnd
    Server: Khaini
    Level: 210
    Job: Cannoneer
    Guild: Contagious


    That wouldn't be the current formula though. Just the one before the patch that changed it. It is good to know though.

  13. Default

    My analysis based on 1 bag

    Fiel, I don't understand. Why does exploding fewer bags at once make it more efficient?

  14. Default Another curious cb

    I have never seen a ME formula before now. A few questions on that formula.

    Is SkillData->nX the mastery written in the description times 10?

    You said that mastery is always 0.5. That means randNum is always a pretty small number compared to 20 mil? Idk how aRandom works, but if you modulo 10mil a number, it seems to me that the result could be up to 9,999,999, which would give an end mastery of [0.5,1.0[
    randNum = aRandom[nIdx++ % 7] % 10,000,000;
    mastery = (double)randNum / 20,000,000 + 0.5;

    You said it might be better in dps to get ME to 30 to boom all 20 bags. But what if you dropped 320 bags, which is an exact number of bags for both lvl 20 and lvl 30? Assuming 50k per bag, you would get 378k/boom over 20 booms with lvl 20, but only 339k/boom over 16 booms for lvl 30? It seems to me that it would cost 25% more time to drop the meso and yield lower damage over time to have max ME if you take the number of bags dropped to infinity.

    I had a few damages gathered from blowing pap 2nd body and griffeys, by measuring the hp bars. I got
    total damage with max ME and 20*20k bags,
    total damage with max ME and 20*50k bags.
    Those are much higher than your formula. Taken in March 2009, in case formula changed since then.

    Is there a formula that would give how the numbers are displayed on the monsters? They don't agree with the damage done nor your formula.

    Long post and lots of questions. I hope I have the concept right.

  15. Default

    For the x variable, go [jobid=422]here[/jobid] and look at the ME values. You'll see the X variables listed there.

    Mastery is not a range. The mastery of a skill represents the absolute lowest damage that a skill can perform. Here, it is impossible for the damage to be lower than 50&#37; of its maximum, so it's said that ME's mastery is 50%.

    You are confusing meso efficiency with damage efficiency. Assuming each boom takes 1 second and that your numbers are exact, you would have dealt 339k over 16 seconds versus 378k over 20 seconds.

    Level 20: 378k / 20 seconds = 18.90 k/sec
    Level 30: 339k / 16 seconds = 21.19 k/sec

    So since the amount of time taken for dropping bags is the same across both sets of booms, you will always deal more damage over time with level 30 versus level 20. But you will pay more mesos to do the same amount of damage. The real question is this - With the time saved by going to level 30, can you make up 39k damage? So, if you can deal more than 39k damage in 4 seconds you should max it. If you can't, go with ME 20.

    So at level 30, you emphasize damage per second whereas with level 20 you emphasize meso savings.

    Also, for the damage, you calculate it PER BAG not for the collection of bags.

    So calculate the damage for 1 bag, then multiply by X number of bags exploded (up to 15) to get your damage calculated for all of ME.

  16. Default


  17. Default

    Hmmm why did I just totally missed this thread while it was made? o.0

    Anyway, you have to factor in other things regarding meso explosion and dropping bags:
    1. Meso Explosion is ONLY usefull when it does zOMFG damage / sec, so dropping 1k bags may be the most effecient, but won't be usefull compared to normal attack DPS.
    2. You have to factor in meso costs, since the last 5 bags do bonus damage in numbers, but their -amount of mesos- doesn't matter, mass dropping low amounts of mesos would be better again, but it cuts into DPS.
    3. Since you have to mass drop meso bags, dropping 15 x 10k bags, followed by 5x 10 meso coins (which would do the same damage as 20x 10k bags) is not good for DPS, even though that it might be a good meso saver.
    4. The sweetspot of Meso Saving / More DPS was always between 4k bags up to 10k bags, just depending on how fast the boss needed to be killed.
    5. The new part about Meso Explosion is that ANYONE in the whole map can drop mesos now, even non-party members, a lot of people still don't know this, while this is the case for more then half a year already.
    If you want to have ME fun @ squad bosses, -EVERYONE- in the map (30 ppl) MASS drop 10k bags, it may be a bit Meso Ineffecient, but it'll do about 500k dmg /Meso Explosion, and since EVERYONE is contributing (30 ppl), the meso costs are still acceptible... ;)

    Still, after the Big Bang / Potential Scrolls, Meso Explosion is laughable... Even Bishops with 2000k NX can do 300k dmg / attack... for only 25 mesos (MP) per attack...

    So yeah... I guess ME exploding is a part of history... :'(

  18. Default

    So in the table on post#12, you actually mean damage per explosion of 20 bags, not damage per 1 click of the the skill? I guess I misread.

    I understand what you mean by per bag and then adding up the 15 damages. It still doesn't add up to 900k damage for 20k bags max ME.



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