2008-07-10, 01:38 AM (This post was last modified: 2008-07-10, 01:51 AM by Bribery.)
xDae Wrote:If that video shows us anything, its that keeping that Battleship alive is easier than what was predicted
I was going to rebut this post by saying that she kept the spawn of Nest Golems low. Also, Captains train at Jr. Newties where it would be much harder to keep the ship alive.
However, I just rewatched this video, which needs GOM player: Level 134 Captain at Jr.Newties. He is training on the bottom row of Jr. Newties. He has level 29 Battleship Cannon and averages almost 34k per shot with it. Not only that, he manages to keep the ship alive quite well by turning it off while waiting for the Newties to respawn. If anyone is wondering, his skill build @ level 134 is:
1 Amp
1 Support Octopus
1 Battleship
1 Battleship Torpedo
1 Rapid Fire
2 Air Strike
9 Maple Warrior
29 Battleship Cannon
I don't think he needs Maple Warrior that early though since he is overkilling the Newties already.
So, I decided to max out Battleship Cannon first, then Air Strike and then Rapid Fire. Skill build will be edited shortly.
I'd recommend a point into Advanced Homing earlier since it still completely replaces Homing at level 1 and gives some better options for KB.
I personally still don't see the point in putting so much into Cooling Effect so early. You won't be finding mobs bigger than 3 at Newties. Or anywhere, really. You say "I decided to skip Fire Burner for the same reason that Rangers skip Inferno." Hate to break it to you, but Rangers don't skip Inferno. Or at least they shouldn't. In fact, if anything, that logic should be applied to Cooling Effect. Snipers stop at 21 because that reaches optimal freezing time and the rest of the damage is negligible. The 5 extra points into Cooling Effect at 95~97 won't speed up your training. The extra 10% damage won't help much. Adding them into something else would though. At the least, if those points were invested into Fire Burner, you would gain another mob count.
JoeTang Wrote:I'd recommend a point into Advanced Homing earlier since it still completely replaces Homing at level 1 and gives some better options for KB.
I personally still don't see the point in putting so much into Cooling Effect so early. You won't be finding mobs bigger than 3 at Newties. Or anywhere, really. You say "I decided to skip Fire Burner for the same reason that Rangers skip Inferno." Hate to break it to you, but Rangers don't skip Inferno. Or at least they shouldn't. In fact, if anything, that logic should be applied to Cooling Effect. Snipers stop at 21 because that reaches optimal freezing time and the rest of the damage is negligible. The 5 extra points into Cooling Effect at 95~97 won't speed up your training. The extra 10% damage won't help much. Adding them into something else would though. At the least, if those points were invested into Fire Burner, you would gain another mob count.
Good point about Advanced Homing, changed the build to incorporate level 1 AH earlier.
The majority of Rangers don't max Inferno at all. Most leave it at 21 since that's when the range is maxed, others leave it at level 1 and dump the points elsewhere since it's hardly used other than for luring purposes. Every single Bowmaster I know that maxed Inferno regrets it.
The reason Cooling Effect is maxed over Fire Burner is that there simply aren't any good Fire mobs to train on. Valkyries basically train at Jr. Newties from level 9x till level 14x. Fire Burner is useless there. If some higher level Fire mob is released, Battleship Torpedo at level 1 out damages maxed Fire Burner.
I also realized I made a huge mistake in the 3rd job build. I meant to switch Octopus and Gaviota around.
Inferno's range is maxed at 16. If you're just going to drop points into Fire Burner without ever using it, pop them into Throwing Bomb instead. At least that skill has tactical uses as opposed to Fire Burner just sitting in your skillbook being lonely.
JoeTang Wrote:Inferno's range is maxed at 16. If you're just going to drop points into Fire Burner without ever using it, pop them into Throwing Bomb instead. At least that skill has tactical uses as opposed to Fire Burner just sitting in your skillbook being lonely.
That's a good idea. Throwing Bomb can be lots of fun with Float
JoeTang Wrote:Anyways, as I was saying earlier, my point was "Why add Cooling Effect at 77?"
Well it seems like the next best skill to get. To be honest, it really doesn't matter what you get after Triple Fire. Cooling Effect seems redundant with Fake Shot, but it does have some advantages. It has a longer range and a better vertical range. Plus, it hits 6 monsters instead of three. I guess Black Squids would be where Valkyries train (basing that off Archers) during the 7x levels. Cooling Effect can help take down Gobies.
Oh lord, Gobies would be a nightmare. I would just ignore the houses <_< Make my way up to 77, and head in for Squid2 Solos if possible. I just see more practicle applications of an earlier Octopus than Cooling Effect. Gobies may very well be more trouble than they're worth at that point... On the otherhand, you could Goby party by the time you have 25 Cooling Effect. But you could also very well go snipe Jr. Newties provided you can find a channel <_< Now there is an application for Octopus.
Continuing off of a point made in a thread off of Sleepywood, (sorry, lost the link Dx) Somersault Kick out damage Double Fire all the time. Plus it's a mob skill. Depending on the cost of Bullets, it could be a great asset to unfunded Gunslingers in early levels. Obviously the range of Double Fire makes it a better skill in the long term, with mastery, distance, and it's speed, but going SK first could be similar to how many Archers use Spears or Axes until 15-20 to avoid arrows. :/
190% to six monsters in an 80% range will beat out 120% to one monster in a 350% range in 1st job most of the time.
This alternate build should allow much cheaper training and much faster training because SK is a mob skill, and mobs are a huge part of training in 1st job. Even on single target monsters, it out damages a Double Fire. D: This build leaves Quick Motion at 10, enough to supply a nice boost of 10 avoid. I start Dash, but get it to 5 because that's when it hits 20 Speed. In 1st job, you don't need much more than that. :/ (Stacks with speed pills)
If Gunslingers get bandwagoned for the first week, month, whatever like I think they'll be (not as bad as Infighters), avoiding bullets for the first 25 levels would be a huge money saver. (Unless you can get them via shops, but still, unless you're funded/a merchant hoar, you'll go broke trying to use bullets from 10). On top of that SC works off of damage range, so get the highest range you can, regardless of weapon, and you're fine. :o
Second Job
Throwing Bomb could be very useful for sniping a mob. In Deep Ludi, you could stand far away from a mob. Normal attacks wouldn't have the range, you'd need an AoE, like Arrow Rain, or a move like Bomb that can arch across. :/ It'd be nice to know how it's range corresponds to the time spent charging it.
Since it's a mob skill, it would loose practical uses in 4th job as mobs started to become lightly densed maps of massive HP. (Temple of Time?)
Just my thoughts. :/
Third Job Build
As for your 3d job Build, it might be better to keep Cooling Effect at 21, where it freezes for 3 seconds, as the extra damage won't help, and at that level, mobs will become rare.
Gobies could be very find experience. Fake Shot to stun the house, Triple Fire to kill it (snipingftw), Cooling Effect to kill the mob. Depending on when they can do this fast, getting Cooling Effect to 25, six monsters, could be good. :o
JoeTang Wrote:Oh lord, Gobies would be a nightmare. I would just ignore the houses <_< Make my way up to 77, and head in for Squid2 Solos if possible. I just see more practicle applications of an earlier Octopus than Cooling Effect. Gobies may very well be more trouble than they're worth at that point... On the otherhand, you could Goby party by the time you have 25 Cooling Effect. But you could also very well go snipe Jr. Newties provided you can find a channel <_< Now there is an application for Octopus.
Hmm, I suppose Octopus before Cooling Effect would be a good idea, but it really depends on training spots. I
Hazzy Wrote:I love spoilers. <3
First Job Build
Continuing off of a point made in a thread off of Sleepywood, (sorry, lost the link Dx) Somersault Kick out damage Double Fire all the time. Plus it's a mob skill. Depending on the cost of Bullets, it could be a great asset to unfunded Gunslingers in early levels. Obviously the range of Double Fire makes it a better skill in the long term, with mastery, distance, and it's speed, but going SK first could be similar to how many Archers use Spears or Axes until 15-20 to avoid arrows. :/
190% to six monsters in an 80% range will beat out 120% to one monster in a 350% range in 1st job most of the time.
This alternate build should allow much cheaper training and much faster training because SK is a mob skill, and mobs are a huge part of training in 1st job. Even on single target monsters, it out damages a Double Fire. D: This build leaves Quick Motion at 10, enough to supply a nice boost of 10 avoid. I start Dash, but get it to 5 because that's when it hits 20 Speed. In 1st job, you don't need much more than that. :/ (Stacks with speed pills)
If Gunslingers get bandwagoned for the first week, month, whatever like I think they'll be (not as bad as Infighters), avoiding bullets for the first 25 levels would be a huge money saver. (Unless you can get them via shops, but still, unless you're funded/a merchant hoar, you'll go broke trying to use bullets from 10). On top of that SC works off of damage range, so get the highest range you can, regardless of weapon, and you're fine. :o
That could work too, except that Somersault Kick is really slow in comparison to Double Fire (which is 160% at max level). It might be faster to Double Fire the mob down instead of Somersault Kick, especially since the range is rather small. Plus, the level 10 bullets can be purchased from an NPC and those last until level 30.
Hazzy Wrote:
Second Job
Throwing Bomb could be very useful for sniping a mob. In Deep Ludi, you could stand far away from a mob. Normal attacks wouldn't have the range, you'd need an AoE, like Arrow Rain, or a move like Bomb that can arch across. :/ It'd be nice to know how it's range corresponds to the time spent charging it.
Since it's a mob skill, it would loose practical uses in 4th job as mobs started to become lightly densed maps of massive HP. (Temple of Time?)
Just my thoughts. :/
It doesn't seem very useful to me since the range is quite difficult to control. Plus, Invisible Shot is a lot faster and it's also a mob attack. Sure, you can't snipe with it but regular training seems more practical to me than sniping high level mobs. Either way, I max it in 3rd job thanks to JoeTang's suggestion
A good way to max Throwing Bomb in second job is to leave booster at 11 and max Throwing Bomb if you don't mind the lower timer.
Hazzy Wrote:
Third Job Build
As for your 3d job Build, it might be better to keep Cooling Effect at 21, where it freezes for 3 seconds, as the extra damage won't help, and at that level, mobs will become rare.
Gobies could be very find experience. Fake Shot to stun the house, Triple Fire to kill it (snipingftw), Cooling Effect to kill the mob. Depending on when they can do this fast, getting Cooling Effect to 25, six monsters, could be good. :o
The thing with 3rd job is, none of the skills besides Triple Fire are useful. Octopus is nice but it remains stationary and doesn't do much damage. Gaviota does a lot of damage but it has a 5 second cooldown so it can't be spammed. Homing isn't useful at all. It's only maxed because it's a requirement for Advanced Homing.
I'm considering Octopus before Cooling Effect since it could be more practical, I guess. It'd be nice to have more information about training spots ;x
Bribery Wrote:The thing with 3rd job is, none of the skills besides Triple Fire are useful. Octopus is nice but it remains stationary and doesn't do much damage. Gaviota does a lot of damage but it has a 5 second cooldown so it can't be spammed. Homing isn't useful at all. It's only maxed because it's a requirement for Advanced Homing.
I'm considering Octopus before Cooling Effect since it could be more practical, I guess. It'd be nice to have more information about training spots ;x
Well, with a Gunslinger's insane Accuracy, Octopus placed in the middle of a Newtie mob combined with Triple Fire Spamming with Gaviota every five seconds could yield pleasant results at lower levels, like 80?
2008-07-10, 01:19 PM (This post was last modified: 2008-07-10, 01:26 PM by Bribery.)
Hazzy Wrote:Well, with a Gunslinger's insane Accuracy, Octopus placed in the middle of a Newtie mob combined with Triple Fire Spamming with Gaviota every five seconds could yield pleasant results at lower levels, like 80?
...duh @ me.
Ok, I'll change the 3rd job build to max Octopus and Gaviota before Cooling Effect.
I asked a Gunslinger on SW for his opinion, lets see if he agrees. :f6:
My one concern however is that Fake Shot's range would be too small to hit the second Jr. Newtie.
2008-07-10, 01:27 PM (This post was last modified: 2008-07-10, 01:45 PM by Bribery.)
xDae Wrote:And what about using Throwing Bomb and Galv to snipe Newties at a early level?
There's no point. Triple Fire bends enough so that you can snipe Jr. Newties from the middle platform. There was a video but I lost the link. I'll try to find it.
3rd job build updated. I may switch Gaviota and Cooling Effect around.
Would getting Gaviota before Octopus be a better idea? Level 1 Gaviota should do more damage than Max Octomus, and it's safer. (Octopus would require you to be in the spawn/attack rage, right?)
Hazzy Wrote:Would getting Gaviota before Octopus be a better idea? Level 1 Gaviota should do more damage than Max Octomus, and it's safer. (Octopus would require you to be in the spawn/attack rage, right?)
Good point, I put level 1 Gaviota early on. I think Octopus is still better though. You could summon it while waiting for respawn.
JoeTang Wrote:If you could post an image of the Newtie platform with the second Newtie there, I can measure the distance to see if Fake Shot can reach it.
I'll try to find it.![[Image: DragonNest.jpg]](http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg162/Ebullient_Nub/DragonNest.jpg)