Order of Applying Gems for maker

Is there anything around that says anything about an order of operations for the gems used in maker?


I've begun to question this because I've made a large number of reverse weapons recently. I used an adv bc, adv diamond, adv amethyst and stim on all of my reverse spears, ave attack is listed at 112. For a long while I put the gems in in that order, bc,diam,ame and never received a spear back that was less than 115 attack and 5 speed, never anything above 5 speed either. The common response I got when I asked around was that adv bc are glitched to not do anything negative. I thought I just had bad luck and all were negative outcomes that were nullified by this glitch/feature of adv bcs.

With my 2 most recent spears I made I couldn't find an adv amethyst, which is what I believe led me to get away from my protocol of adding the adv bc in first. Still using a stim, I added the diamond first and then the adv bc for both, both turned out to be 112 attack, something I hadn't seen before.

So it appears that when I had the adv bc listed first it was applied first and had no other gems to manipulate so it did nothing. When I added it in last it was able to be applied to the previous gems and change their value.

I searched around and couldn't find anything on this topic so I'm bringing it here. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me. Thanks

Im preety sure that it just luck, the order doesnt afect it

I think BC alters stats that show up on the equips, including gem-related ones. I think it goes like this.

Crystal 1 - Adv. Diamond (+3 attack)
Crystal 2 - BC
Crystal 3 - Adv. Strength (+5 strength)

The way I think Maker works is it "creates" the item, then adds your modifiers to it in order. The +3 attack is already on the item before the BC came into play, so the BC affects those stats too. However, the +5 strength bonus was not present when the BC was applied, therefore it won't be altered.

Im preety sure that it just luck, the order doesnt afect it

Would it change your mind at all If I told you I made 19 reverse spears the first way.
Then 2 in a row come out below ave when none of the previous ones had?

Especially considering there was no variation to the speed on any of these spears at all -- all of them came out 5 speed --

I think everyone just considers it bad luck when it appears the adv bc did nothing for them, instead of actually questioning if the bc was even applied correctly.

The real question (I think) would be:

When does the stimulator's cap get applied?

Eg. if it is applied between every crystal then in your first method (base + bc + diamond) it'll never come out below 115.
112 -> 110 (bc) -> 112 (stim) -> 115 (diamond)
Then switching them is
112 -> 115 (diamond) -> 112 (bc)

So really, if it works this way then base + x + bc + diamond seems to be the way to go. Guaranteed +3 from the diamond, non-negative BC, but the BC can still affect X-stat (eg. a speed crystal).

If the stimulator is only applied to the basic random stats (107-117) then I can't explain why you'd never get a below average one. Black crystals shouldn't turn out 0-3 20 times in a row, they definitely can be negative.



If this is accurate, the general way to scroll equips would be
stim + a + dc/bc + b
a -> stats not available on the original item
b -> stats on the original

This way bc can only negatively affect "a" stats, always positive or 0 for the "b".





Test for what dc/bc affects:
Maker an item (str/dex) with luk/int crystal in first slot, dc in second. And reverse, dc first, stats second.
They hardly ever come out non-average on base stats, so you should see -1/-1/-1 if it affects all 3, or -1/-1/0 if the DC cannot affect bonus stats.

I've never found a definite answer to this question. However unlikely, unless proven otherwise, there is still a possibility of it being true. So as not to take chances, I assumed the worst case scenario and have always acted according to that. If it's true, there's nothing more I could've done, if it's not, all is good.

I just forged 2 pairs of Blue Crescent Boots to check this.
Base stats: 4 str 2 dex
Crystals: Intermediate Power, Low Dark Crystal.
Boot 1:
Stim, Power, Dark.
Result: 5 str, 0 dex.

Boot 2:
Stim, Dark, Power.
Result: 7 str, 2 dex.

So boot 1 was obviously negatively affected by the dark crystal (dex ended up 2 below average) despite the stim, while boot 2 did not.

The trick is figuring out whether this is just the dark crystal not doing anything the second time. But it supports your theory. And eliminates the chance that stimulators prevent items from going below average entirely.


It's kinda expensive to test this further (tests generally making useless equips because it's not like I can use a str/dex/luk Lucida) but I'll try to forge a pair with black/amethyst at some point and see if I can get non-average speed. For now this 7 str shoe is ok on my Dragon Knight but I'll probably go for a 5 str 5 speed black one when I get the chance.

Wow thanks for testing it.

Same thing went through my mind when I read over your idea for proving it. This is gonna be expensive.

So it can affect the base stats regardless of gem, ie you got it to change dex w/o using a dex crystal.

Changing the stats regardless of stim is perplexing considering I had never experienced this to be true. I had never been able to get a spear below ave attack until the BC was moved to be behind the diamond. Perhaps there are basic differences even within bc and dc?

I'll run a few tests over the weekend and get back to you, a few with bc, a few with dc. Mainly focusing on lvl100 gear, if you have some suggestoins please post as I'm not quite sure what i want to do yet. I definitely am gonna try to elaborate on your experiment.

It would be easier if I could get on my ore mule (I don't have a 2nd computer atm and my laptop is too slow to run MS twice).

I'll probably be going with level 50-60 weapons (after level 120 crystals I have the most level 50 due to training on Iron Mutae a bunch) with whatever stims I have around.

Low grade black crystals are good enough to show whether you can get a below average stim'd weapon. Though it might take a few tries.


The primary things I wanted to try, but didn't, was dark+int/luk and int/luk+dark on an equip that doesn't come with int/luk by default.
An alternative to save money instead of weapons would be speed+black / black+speed on shoes - that way the base acc is affected as well, and you can compare results. I just don't have any black crystals...

It would be easier if I could get on my ore mule (I don't have a 2nd computer atm and my laptop is too slow to run MS twice).

I'll probably be going with level 50-60 weapons (after level 120 crystals I have the most level 50 due to training on Iron Mutae a bunch) with whatever stims I have around.

Low grade black crystals are good enough to show whether you can get a below average stim'd weapon. Though it might take a few tries.


The primary things I wanted to try, but didn't, was dark+int/luk and int/luk+dark on an equip that doesn't come with int/luk by default.
An alternative to save money instead of weapons would be speed+black / black+speed on shoes - that way the base acc is affected as well, and you can compare results. I just don't have any black crystals...

I think i remember making a weapon a short time ago with a stim and an BC, ended up below average and i raged while a disassembled <_<

Also, i have lots of crystals and a few basic BCs around, so ill test this as well, for kicks ya know.

I don't think the input order matters. From my understanding, this is the order in which stuff is always applied: natural randomness -> stimulator -> black/dark crystal -> other crystals.

Ok -- so got back into this with some free time I had

went for something cheap -- orihalcon war greave -- uses purple powders which are nice and cheap
used inter bc and basic amethyst

5 trials -- first 3 with amethyst first followed by bc -- last 2 bc first followed by amethyst

The 4th Trial is the one that I think debunks any notion that order plays a role. BC listed first, amethyst listed second. The shoes came out with plus 4 speed which is only possible if bc had an effect upon the amethyst gem.

I think that's enough to prove it to me. If anyone can see any holes please let me know and I'll get back to it. Stereo if you wanna keep on testing I have a hoard of basic bcs you can have.

So.... The order you apply doesn't affect turnout? D=

So.... The order you apply doesn't affect turnout? D=

Basically his experiment showed that the shoes got +2 speed from Basic Amethyst (which was listed later) and +2 speed from Intermediate Black Crystal (listed before) which means regardless of positions in the Maker UI, the BC's effect is applied after the other Gem's.

In other words, no, the order doesn't matter.