Define Dexless

Went on Basil (Not sure why), and first thread I visited had the usual Basil Flame-War. This one was about the definition of Dexless: Lowest possible base Dex, or lowest possible total Dex?

:f6:

your first problem is that you're bringing arguments from basil to here <_<

your second problem is that you failed to mention whether you're speaking about NLs, shadowers, or warriors.

The definition changes depending on the class...? o_o
Also, this particular argument was about Infighters.

To me, dexless means you're using a weapon that does not require dex, and you're minimizing dex to the point you can't reset it any lower... (only applied to warriors, thieves, and infighters - I guess mage/beginner too)

Lowest possible base dex.

Dexless means you can have dex equips, IMO. Because it's almost impossible for a job to have no equips that add dex

To me, dexless means you're using a weapon that does not require dex, and you're minimizing dex to the point you can't reset it any lower... (only applied to warriors, thieves, and infighters - I guess mage/beginner too)

This.
Well, I'd say no dex-req armor either, except perhaps lower level stuff that becomes wearable as a side effect from zhelm/etc.

I, for one, do not subscribe to the idea of thieves being able to actually be "DEXless". Having a statless build consists of the secondary stat being at 4, as it is impossible to go below that point. You start the game with 4 in that stat and end the game with 4 in that stat.

Thieves, though, are required 25 DEX for their job advancement initially. Due to this, I categorize thieves as either Pure-LUK or Low-DEX. Low-DEX builds rely on using DEX equips to use a certain claw whilst keeping their DEX as low as possible. Pure-LUK builds do not use any DEX equips and only equip DEXless claws--they use LUK equips in place of whatever DEX equips would normally be used.

I like to think my idea of the whole thing makes sense, but surely enough there's some fuckers who are going to feel it necessary to flame.

^ what if the secondary stat is 5 because the player couldn't be bothered to roll dice for hours?

I like defining it as lowest possible total dex, because although technically it can be used for lowest possible base dex, the latter can easily confuse people, especially newcomers.

They usually can ask the question, well, why not up your dex and use "insert primary stat" equips?

They usually can ask the question, well, why not up your dex and use "insert primary stat" equips?

"Because DEX is cheaper/has more scrolls". :f6:

My definition is that the weapon you're using requires no dex (not for warriors). If you're using, for example, a craven or something with 25 dex, I would consider you low-dex.... just extremely low dex to the point where you can't go lower, but you're still utilizing your dex. If someone accidentally put an extra point of dex in to make it 26 and was using a skanda, would you not call that dexless anymore? My archmage has 5 luk, and I consider her lukless because I use a weapon that requires no luk.

"Because DEX is cheaper/has more scrolls". :f6:

But some people that want to know the difference between AP builds don't know that...

I consider a thief to be dexless when they're using a weapon that requires no dex to equip. If they're 25 base dex Scarab user, then I consider them low dex. Just really really low dex.

For warriors, it's 4 base dex. For pirates, it's 20 base dex.

Why does it matter?

Dexless thieves don't exist. They all have at least 25 :O

In all seriousness. I thought this was a great way to classify different types of thieves:

Normal Dex: Uses regular equipment. Can use dex from equips to equip weapon, but also has luk scrolled equipment.
(This includes "low dex," which I think is a stupid classification. Why would you not take advantage of dex on your equips at all, especially since thieves can't scroll everything for their mainstat? Low dex thieves are normal dex.)
Dexless: Uses equipment that does not require dex. Has 25 base dex.
Min Dex: Uses regular weapons, but keeps base dex to a minimum and relies entirely on dex equipment to reach the dex requirement for their weapon.

Didn't catch on to well, though.

Dexless thieves don't exist. They all have at least 25 :O

In all seriousness. I thought this was a great way to classify different types of thieves:

Normal Dex: Uses regular equipment. Can use dex from equips to equip weapon, but also has luk scrolled equipment.
(This includes "low dex," which I think is a stupid classification. Why would you not take advantage of dex on your equips at all, especially since thieves can't scroll everything for their mainstat? Low dex thieves are normal dex.)
Dexless: Uses equipment that does not require dex. Has 25 base dex.
Min Dex: Uses regular weapons, but keeps base dex to a minimum and relies entirely on dex equipment to reach the dex requirement for their weapon.

I think the distinction of normal to low dex is that normal dex = uses all max level gear (mostly for looks and cause the build is easiest), low dex = uses optimal stats gear. If you're wearing a Pirate top+bottom with Mamba at 8x, that's normal dex. If you have a China bottom & Stud top and use the stats efficiently, low dex.

I'd say min dex is a bit restrictive, more like "maximizes dex boost from gear" cause the same as some stuff can only add dex, there is stuff (Zakum helm) that adds luk and cannot be converted to dex. Also, if you've got +125 dex (30 helm + 35 overall + 22 pendant + 15 shoe + 8 face + 15 earring is quite possible), you're not exactly gonna push for more dex. Might as well get some luk.

So in order of base dex, probably, normal dex - low dex - min dex - dexless.

If someone accidentally put an extra point of dex in to make it 26 and was using a skanda, would you not call that dexless anymore?

Personally, I define a Dexless Thief as one with under around 30 Dex. The difference between 25 and 26 is barely noticeable. Once you get around 30, I just go with Really low Dex. :o

I've always considered Dexless to be a character that has enough Dex to job advance (if any) and their weapons have no Dex requirements.

Dexless is a character that has minimum base dex for their requirement job advancement, who does not focus on dex equips.