How does new PDR work?

I understand this could be very early to ask, but I would throw it out.

I have seen @Takebacker said the following

It shows on the stat screen additively, but i MIGHT be applied separately. Looking at my dojo damage makes me think it is separately.

Can anyone please explain what does it mean by applied separately?

My damage reduction feeling i referred to in that post might have been influenced by not setting character cards though. I also don't know if pdr can exceed 100% on the stat window. I have 98% equipped.

Do we have to start a new thread just for this...?

Separate meaning that each source of IgnorePDR reduces the effective PDR multiplicatively. So if a boss has 50%PDR and you have 10%, 10% and 25% IgnorePDR sources, then the boss's effective PDR becomes 50% * (1 - 0.1) * (1 - 0.1) * (1 - 0.75) = 50% * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.75 = 30.375%.
In contrast, an additive IgnorePDR would have made the boss's PDR become 50% * (1 - 0.45) = 27.5%

Hadriel

My damage reduction feeling i referred to in that post might have been influenced by not setting character cards though. I also don't know if pdr can exceed 100% on the stat window. I have 98% equipped.

My PDR is 133% in the stat window, and that doesn't include snipe's 40% ignore

Thanks for explaining that separate = multiplicative.

@Marksman Bryan, do you hit less or the same as before?

My PDR is 133% in the stat window, and that doesn't include snipe's 40% ignore

Suppose that's more than enough to confirm we got kms unlimited with less severe boss upgrades. Magnus is a little more difficult though...dat green ohko i hate you.

Thanks for explaining that separate = multiplicative.

@Marksman Bryan, do you hit less or the same as before?

I was capping with everything before so I can't really compare :/

I was hitting the same damage in dojo as on root abyss bosses (the ones with no physical resist)

What PDR changes? There are none.

Suppose that's more than enough to confirm we got kms unlimited with less severe boss upgrades. Magnus is a little more difficult though...dat green ohko i hate you.

not necesarily, it can simply be showing you your "excess" ignore

What PDR changes? There are none.

I asked because I remember they said there will be changes to the old PDR system in unleashed, but it wont be the same as KMS.

I asked because I remember they said there will be changes to the old PDR system in unleashed, but it wont be the same as KMS.

There are no PDR changes.

When the game goes back up I'll be replacing an 18% PDR neb from my secondary with a 3% (2%?) total dmg neb.

Now that I type it out it seems like the change, if any, would be insignificant and might be difficult to tell if there is any. But I'll let you know if I notice a big difference.

There are no PDR changes.

Thanks!

When the game goes back up I'll be replacing an 18% PDR neb from my secondary with a 3% (2%?) total dmg neb.

Now that I type it out it seems like the change, if any, would be insignificant and might be difficult to tell if there is any. But I'll let you know if I notice a big difference.

And thanks!

I don't really get how the item's %pdr change works.

My main sword is 40% boss (potential) + 15% pdr (nebulite). When I have my sword off, it shows +40% boss +0% pdr. When I equip another weapon with 15% nebulite, it shows +40% boss -10% pdr. When I swap the two, the other sword has -40% boss -10% pdr. The nebulite pretty clearly does add +15% pdr in my stat window, so where's 10% coming from? If it was just based on general pdr then, since I have 50% from combat mastery, 15% from luminous, 5% from (forget which card) and 30% from the codex, it should be 4% more pdr in the multiplicative sense - 72% to 76% ignored.

Only way I make sense of it is if it's comparing only to equips - the 30% of the codex means a nebulite is 15% of 70%, or 10.5% pdr.

Def ignore nebulites don't show up correctly in the change in stats thingy.

When it calculates old PDR it takes nebulites into account, and when it calculates new PDR it doesn't take nebulites into account. This is a problem since change = new - old.
You'll end up with weird things like shoes or overalls saying they decrease your PDR if you have a weapon with a PDR neb equipped.


Also all of my tests suggest we're using KMS's defense ignore system. PDR = 1-(1-PDR1)(1-PDR2)(1-PDR3)...
Easiest way to prove it would be to get a Merc or Bucc with high defense ignore to shoot at high def mobs, then compare the 100% ignore and regular lines.

Even if the new UI update which calculates damage/stat changes shows multiplicative PDR values, that does not necessarily mean we got the corresponding code for calculating actual damage. This weird mismatch of KMS+CMS+GMS code could do anything... and Nexon employees themselves may not fully understand it judging by our grossly incomplete update notes.

I'll do some rigorous testing using my BM damage calculator which was highly accurate pre-Unleashed and see if there are any inconsistencies.

Did a bit of testing on Chief Oblivion Guardians (PDR 20) and White Fangs (PDR 5).
I have 123% Ignore def in my stats window, so should be hitting the same on both.
I didn't.
Using multiplicative Ignore Def, my actual is about 79%. The numbers I got were consistent with this.
Screenshots will be posted when it's not 2AM here, sorry.

Ok I took some screens.
Basically we have multiplicative PDR.
GuardBreak hypers also count as a seperate sources. So if I have Illusion and Illusion Guardbreak, it counts as 2 seperate sources of 20% ignore defense.

For reference
Multiplicative PDR = 1 - (1-PDR1)(1-PDR2)(1-PDR3)...
Damage = 1 - (Def * (1-PDR))




PDR

Leafre Illusion GuardBreak Nebulite Ambition Light Wash Top Total

PDR 30% 20% 20% 18% 7% 10% 5% 100%

1-PDR 70% 80% 80% 82% 93% 90% 95% 70.79%

70% defense

PDR Defense Ignored Final Defense Damage

PDR+ 100.00% 70.00% 70.00% 0.00% 100.00%

PDR* 70.79% 70.00% 49.55% 20.45% 79.55%

Total Damage

Glove Weapon SubWeapon Reinforce Total

Total Damage 15% 18% 9% 20% 162%

 Killer Wings

DoT Damage = True Max Range * DoT%
True Max Range = DoT Damage / DoT% = 175998/90% = 195553.3333

Damage

True Range Damage Total Damage Mastery Skill% Crit Min Max

PDR+ 195553.3333 100.00% 162% 95% 570% 150% 2573178.759 2708609.22

PDR* 195553.3333 79.55% 162% 95% 570% 150% 2047029.543 2154767.94

Evans have 150% min crit and max crit so I don't need seperate crit numbers.

 Actual Damage

2057054, 2082831, and 2102563 are are consistent with multiplicative PDR and not consistent with additive PDR.



The 2057054 also proves that Illlusion and Illusion: GuardBreak count as seperate sources of PDR. If I change Illusion to 40% and guardbreak to 0%, then I get...

Damage

True Range Damage Total Damage Mastery Skill% Crit Min Max

PDR+ 195553.3333 100.00% 162% 95% 570% 150% 2573178.759 2708609.22

PDR* 195553.3333 80.83% 162% 95% 570% 150% 2079913.869 2189383.02

2057054 clearly does not fall into that range.



edit: there was a glitch, I had a few numbers wrong. Change total on subweapon from 5->9 and skill% from 585 -> 570. Min and Max are about the same though (1.58*5.85=9.243, 1.62*5.7=9.234, so negligible difference), so the results are still the same.

it's my sacrifice's time to shine!


...sigh ._.