Quantact Wrote:It's not the book, it's how people interpret it. Any pimento can go to church and call himself a Christian, that doesn't mean the bible had any actual impact on him. I am not really religiously educated, I just practice the Ten Commandments. I don't murder, steal, have sex with married women, etc. If you take those basic things, the Bible is VERY effective as a guide for life.
If you want to argue that atheists are better people, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were all atheists. They didn't believe in the "racist, sexist and violent" book, and their policies were more unfair and murderous than anything Christians have ever done in the name of God.
There are some atheists who;d never do that kind of stuff. And there are some religious people that would never condone the Crusades. Don't blame religion for the assholes that used it as an excuse to murder other people.
Quote:when people start with the evil atheist names i just point at the holy inquisition and we call it even. religion does not make you good, there is as much evil doers inside organized religion as out of it.
Carlos, you seem to be disagreeing with me, but the bolded parts of my statement are the same thing you said. X_x
XBish Wrote:we only disagree on the holy like quality of the bible
I can't argue on the holy-like quality of the Bible because while I believe it, I cannot prove that in earthly terms. The belief in God is a precondition for living a religious life. If that precondition is met I can make a lot of arguments, but a person who does not accept the existence of God will not be interested in any of htem.
Hence my original statement that people should not argue this sort of thing becuase they'll believe what they'll want to believe anyway.
the existence of god has nothing to do with the value of the bible as a holy book. the bible is just the book in which one of many religions for the same god base its teachings.
Joe.2 Wrote:I wasn't referring to the portions of the bible that are vague and left up for interpretation, but the facts that are stated in it as actual history, that show not only christians, but also the christian god, as sexist and violent. I also don't think that the bible or religion are to blame for the actions carried out by the church in the name of the christian god, i was just saying that the bible in itself is too violent and prejudiced for my taste.
you cannot look at a book written thousands of years ago solely on modern day eyes. we cannot even do that with books written 100 or even 50 years ago, or else all the great writers are called racist. if you put everything into context, the God in the old testaments is/was still a very loving god. ex: in those days women were consider objects and can be used as such, but God allowed for divorce which was a new concept to protect the women then.
i do agree most debates on the internet over theological issues are kinda useless. its far better to let them see how functioning Christianity works.
XBish Wrote:the existence of god has nothing to do with the value of the bible as a holy book. the bible is just the book in which one of many religions for the same god base its teachings.
Judeo-Christian-Muslim God is learned through Torah, Bible and Koran. There are different variations on the worship itself, (Sunni/Shiite, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic,) but those three books pretty much are what people use.
2009-02-19, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 2009-02-19, 03:43 PM by ♥Ji.)
xbish, i have mentioned over and over that i am not arguing. if you keep thinking that i am arguing with you, then you will get more upset. if you have a problem with God, please take it up with God. it will be far more productive since i am not really responding to any of your arguments. i just want to do what christ told me to do. look what else christ told me to do:
"If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen." 1 jn 4:20
if i truly loved you, then i would not continue to put myself in temptation of being angry with you. i am not going to respond to your provoking anymore, for the fact that i am weak. if you are truly convicted in your heart please feel free to pm me
i agree entirely with heronz on the issue of human debate
Joe.2 Wrote:This is one of the many parts of the bible that bother me. So what this is pretty much saying is that even if a person followed the ten commandments to the letter, was kind to others and lived an overall good life, but they happen to be hard workers who were lucky enough to make a fortune, they're going to hell?... Yeah... GG
it means that if you think you "have everything," then it is far harder for you to say "i give up this world" - because you will be giving up SO much
Jesus also said this:
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." mt 6:24
look what else the Bible says:
"You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise." ps 51:16-17
is the heart of a rich man likely to be broken and contrite? or rather, proud and arrogant and puffed up because of all that he thinks he has achieved for himself? we are looking at the heart, remember, not the outward appearance.
honestly, we do not know the heart of someone, unless that heart is ours, and we are searching it. if you are a rich man, then you can ask yourself that question; until then consider the possibility that you might be wrong
and if you are still listening, hear the story of the rich young man, from whence that quote came
The Rich Young Man
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
i am not upset, why would i get upset over a book? the book you keep quoting has nothing to do with god to a large portion of the world, its all i am trying to get you to understand. i am glad you think the words of a prophet like jesus are law, but some of us dont. that doesnt make me evil or make me not believe in god. it just means i dont beleive the same way you do. perhaps if you come up with valid and well though arguments that will somehow shatter the foundation of my beliefs i could get upset. random quotes and going around the bush will not.
random quote for the hell of it:
"In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." - Thomas Jefferson
" The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." - John Adams
Quote:the book you keep quoting has nothing to do with god to a large portion of the world
And yet, to a very large portion of the world, it does.
Quote:random quote for the hell of it:
A few random words from the god-like Founding Fathers. Oh, never mind that Jefferson kept a few slaves and had children with one of them (most likely involuntarily on the slave's part)...
---
Oh please. This type of discussion gets nowhere. Faith cannot be proven; science can, but is in a different field and is not a philosophy for you to live on. Christians try to impose their views; atheists attempt to assert their superiority through their logic. If logic can ever result in a irrefutable answer to "what is the meaning of life," it will be when most of our great-great-grandchildren are six feet under.
just to be on topic, the Bible is a book about our souls. it asks us: what good is it to you if you gain the whole world, yet lose your own soul?
the whole world. presidents have power. rich men have wealth. paris hilton has paparazzi. britney spears has lovers. anything else that you can think of that you can possibly desire in this world.
what good is it to you if you gain the whole world, yet lose your own soul?
don't think too hard about what your soul is. don't let specific definitions bind you. your soul is your personality, your identity, etc - not a mysterious portion that only spiritual or religious people can access. your soul is the part of you that your friends and family know and love... and dislike.
what good is it to you if you gain the whole world, yet lose your own soul?
the Bible says that our souls are evil. i think everyone agrees that evil must be gotten rid of and destroyed. if this is true, our souls must be destroyed.
if you are interested in keeping your soul, click here.
2009-02-19, 07:44 PM (This post was last modified: 2009-02-19, 08:29 PM by Moonlapse.)
Quote:Oh please. This type of discussion gets nowhere. Faith cannot be proven; science can, but is in a different field and is not a philosophy for you to live on. Christians try to impose their views; atheists attempt to assert their superiority through their logic. If logic can ever result in a irrefutable answer to "what is the meaning of life," it will be when most of our great-great-grandchildren are six feet under.
Exactly. While I can never prove my faith, I simply chose to believe because Christianity has more to offer than Atheism in terms of the afterlife. If atheism is true, then I encounter a fate I deem undesirable, whether I believe in Christianity or not. However, If Christianity is true, then I only will encounter an undesirable fate if I choose not to believe. Therefore I converted from Atheism/Agnosticism to Christianity, because with faith at least I have a shot of inheriting a desirable afterlife.
Thunda Wrote:And yet, to a very large portion of the world, it does.
only 33% of it
and jefferson only did what the bible told him to
god says slavery is A O K, as long as you keep families together.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
so is rape
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
@ moonlapse.
if i get what you say, does it mean that depending on my religion it depends what happens to me in the afterlife? if so buddhism is the win, reincarnation and unlimited tries to reach nirvana. gogo hacking at life.
on topic: in Galatians 5:22 is found "how to tell the Holy Spirit from the sinful nature." i have included from verses 19-23 for your reference.
"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
NB: "no law" - no one dislikes a person who is loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, or self-controlled. no matter what religion you think you belong to, the fruit of the tree tells you what kind of tree it is.
if i get what you say, does it mean that depending on my religion it depends what happens to me in the afterlife? if so buddhism is the win, reincarnation and unlimited tries to reach nirvana. gogo hacking at life.
That's not what I said. I said the cause is what religious view happens to be correct, and the effect is what happens in the afterlife. What you are saying is what I beleive is the cause, and what happens in the afterlife is the effect. Believeng or disbelieveng has now effect on the existence or nonexsistence of God.
Also I would like to point out that writing "Game Over" in big red letters is doing more harm to your arguments than helping them.
2009-02-19, 09:40 PM (This post was last modified: 2009-02-19, 09:43 PM by ♥Ji.)
moonlapse - i think if we as humanity can (someday) let go of our postmodernism extremes, and the fear of seeming politically incorrect, both of which run rampant today, we can admit to ourselves that in all honesty there probably is an absolute truth, and that we aren't smart enough to know what the right way is, unless someone perfect tells us. everyone has their time tho i guess.
something to comfort us - the first psalm begins like this:
"Blessed is the man . . who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked . . or stand in the way of sinners . . or sit in the seat of mockers.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, . . and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water, . . which yields its fruit in season . . and whose leaf does not wither. . . Whatever he does prospers."
ps 1:1-3
XBish Wrote:what can i say i am a funny beaner, this a maple forum, the internet is zeriuz buzzinezz
The Speakeasy was meant for casual conversation, though; not for people to try to win arguments (jokingly or not). While some of us may have seen the "game over" comment as harmless, be aware that not everyone will perceive it as such.
Providence Wrote:The Speakeasy was meant for casual conversation, though; not for people to try to win arguments. While some of us may have seen the "game over" comment as harmless, please be aware that not everyone will perceive it as such.
i guess some of you are too young to realize than in games when you die it says game over and continue with a 10 countdown, refering to reincarnation, a joke to lighten the mood since this is the speak easy.... my mistake for doing references before 2000 in a maple forum.
@ ji. the only aboslute truth is that there are no absolutes.
lol see what i did there ;D
oh and this is a thread to coment about the bible and its teachings, mistakes ideologies and the such since the second page. not a quote random bible verses every 5 minutes thread
let's be on topic guys =)
for the person who raised the thought about rich men entering heaven, jesus did not say that no rich man could enter heaven. he did not talk about a camel going through a completely closed, sealed, door. he talked about a camel going through an eye of a needle - a very very small door.
paul urges timothy (1 tim 6:17):
"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment."
XBish Wrote:i guess some of you are too young to realize than in games when you die it says game over and continue with a 10 countdown, refering to reincarnation, a joke to lighten the mood since this is the speak easy.... my mistake for doing references before 2000 in a maple forum.
I got the joke; the problem is that it could very easily be read as one of those typical "shutdown" comments.
Quote:oh and this is a thread to coment about the bible and its teachings, mistakes ideologies and the such since the second page. not a quote random bible verses every 5 minutes thread
It's a thread discussing the Bible, and most of the passages have been commented on. I don't see what's so wrong with that.
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