The "Bishop Ult vs. AM Ult" thread

Nightlords support better than any other class (in the departments they support; speed, jump, and meso drop), and they do single target DPS faster than any other class.

Is that wrong?

The fact is that there is no definite "support". Thieves have important support skills, Bishops have important support skills, Archers have an important support skill, and DKs have probably the most important support skill of them all. All Bishops support "best" is experience (any other party skills are workable or even surpassed with pots instead), but is that any surprise given their inherent exp gaining nature? And do the healers not deserve to get good experience? It's arguable, I admit, to what degree their exp needs to be "good", but there being a large pool of high level healers for bosses is an entirely good thing in my opinion.


Would they leech when they can attack? I don't know, ask the Priests who are skipping SR. I, in my Priestdom, killed dreamy ghosts probably faster than most anyone my level, but these folks are choosing to leech instead...?

I guess what I'm getting at here is that people are stupid. Point of the matter though is that the basic advancements in Genesis compared to SR are obvious and cutting any of them out removes the advanced nature of the attack. Higher range, more mob hit, harder hitting. Remove any one of those elements to "balance" it, and it doesn't work the way it should. What you're suggesting is similar to suggesting since NLs are so advantaged in single target, that Triple Throw shouldn't work with Shadow Partner.

Again, I point out that the entire game has imbalanced elements around. Bishops and Mages being strong doesn't hurt you, it only helps you (aside from the case of those who would killsteal, but they're going to do things to piss you off regardless of their class, regardless of their power). Would you yell "nerf!" at NLs for having such great party skills and uncanny single target DPS? At FP Mages for insane poison potential? At Crossbow Masters and Heroes for their massive single hits? For DKs being "non-support" but having the most important support skill for bossing? The whole pineappleing lot isn't balanced, why peach now? It's because you see Magicians as inferior and don't like them having a heavy advantage.

Comparing night lords' support skills like that can be applied to any class. Archmages' meditation increases magic attack the best out of any class, but really, it's not as important as the support skills of a bishop. In practical training and bossing situations, haste and meso up really don't do all that much. When bossing, haste almost always does nothing at all, as most bosses are immobile or very slow and have insignificant meso drops. When training, night lords most effectively train with ultimate spammers anyways, and haste loses its purpose as the bishop/archmage doesn't really need to move from one spot. Meso up is irrelevant because looting slows down training. Bishops' support skills, however, are almost essential in any effective training party or efficient bossing situation. You'd extremely rarely any leechable party with members of level 120 or higher without holy symbol. The same could be said about zakum/horntail with heal, dispel, holy symbol, holy shield, resurrection, door, and bless. Night lords' skills don't help nearly as much as those of bishops in those situations.

Bishops do deserve good experience, but not as good experience as they're receiving right now. Obviously, I don't want them to be reduced to leeching, but right now, I think there is a serious problem with them having to spam one skill in one spot and getting experience rates twice as much as those of other classes other than archmages. A replacement skill that gives them experience on par with others, like third job's shining ray, would fix this problem. This was before the time of leeching from 4th jobbers, by the way, because now, attacking as a priest with another 3rd jobber won't nearly match up to leeching from (a) 4th jobber(s). I also want archmages' ultimates removed as well and to have their other skills powered up so that they won't be crippled in both training and bossing.

I'm talking about bishops by the way about the leeching/attacking thing.

The analogy of removing genesis to removing night lords' shadow partner doesn't really make sense because single-target damage is really the only thing that night lords excel in. They don't get insane exp rates compared to other classes. Bishops excel in both training and supporting. Also, archmages only excel in training. And just because the whole game is imbalanced doesn't mean that it should be the reason that we should accept that things should remain imbalanced.

By the way, night lords' advantage is in apples, not their class.