The "Bishop Ult vs. AM Ult" thread

The MP consumption for genesis is literally half of blizzard/meteo like you mentioned

No. Genesis is not half of Blizzard/Meteo. Blizzard/Meteo are two times what Genesis is. It's not that Genesis has a lower cost, it's that Blizzard and Meteo have a higher cost. This is because Amp mulitplies cost. It is not that Bishops have a skill that cuts their cost in half.

but what's equally important to notice is that the damage is very very similar; technically speaking, since blizzard/meteo costs 2x as much as genesis, genesis should be doing half the damage... or at least significantly lower, but it's not.

Actually, the point of amp is to have a much higher cost in exchange for a small boost in power. It works well in 3rd job, but in 4th, the higher base getting multiplied just makes it unfair.

But I digress. The point is to pay a much higher cost for a small boost. It's not supposed to be that you pay 2x MP for 2x damage boost.

And if you consider level playing field, a Mage using a functional elemental weapon would be "significantly" higher than a comparable Bishop. Just consider: Genesis at 670 base compared to Blizzard at 961. And yes, I am aware this is not a practical comparison due to lack of Ice weak monsters, but THAT'S the problem. The problem isn't "Mages are pineappleing weak and Bishops are strong", it's "Bishops have elemental advantage with ease and Mages do not".

Genesis at level 1 has a 440 spell attack. blizzard/meteo has a base of 330. With amp, that's 446. 440 costing 2.1k mp vs 446 costing 4.2k. Genesis clearly wins in terms of "better". At level 30, blizzard/meteo gains a slightly higher advantage but that fact that it costs 7k mp, it isn't cheap.

See above. It's not fair per se, but that's how the fundamental idea is SUPPOSED to be: pay a much higher cost for a small boost. Again, you pay 2x MP for 1.35 boost, not 2x MP for 2x boost.

Genesis is faster than a level 11+ boost. You can't say this isn't important when you "kill everything in one hit". Because the majority of the magicians do not one hit kill everything. Both archmages and bishops. Even if they do 1 hit, then genesis casting faster means the got more hits in in 1 minute.

Consider a world in which Skele are weak to Ice and Fire in addition to Holy. Mages would be killing in fewer hits at lower levels, and due to the spawn cycle, the kill rate pet time would be the same anyway. All the faster cast rate on Genesis would do is give us a small fraction of a second that we will have to wait before they respawn.

And I'm not saying Genesis SHOULD be faster. They should all be same speed if compared without Booster. All I am saying is that THAT is not the problem with the system; basically, that problem you are identifying is technically irrelevant. Mages and Bishops in practical application on level playing ground would have the Mages at an advantage, needing less levels to have enough magic to kill in fewer hits. Again, the source problem is presented: Mages have no elementally weak monsters.

The only case whereby Genesis being a fraction of a second faster would be spamming it against a monster with a large bank of HP. I guess you could say Bishops are better suited to spamming Genesis at multipart bosses (assuming elemental weapons never are fixed), but again there's the problem! Lack of elemental weakness. And for bosses, this pomegranate could be fixed SO damn easy. Make their demons' elemental shifting attacks work on bosses AND STACK.

This can be fixed with newer training spots coming out that would favor archmages but newer spots aren't out yet.

Do you know how much work that would require? Hell, if they really wanted, they could just flip a switch and make Newties weak to both elements instead of neutral. It's not "they need to work on this to get this fixed", they think it's not a problem (and in fact, keep doing pomegranate to pomegranate on Mages... fucking elemental resistance and pomegranate ugh). We need to be more vocal about what we need to make things fair.

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Actually beloved and myself were talking about training Priests, not Bishops.
>_>

What? This thread is about "Bishop Ult vs. AM Ult". In other words, this is a thread to compare Genesis to Blizzard/Meteo. Get the pineapple outta here if you want to talk about Priest pumpernickel.