Response to BombsAway
You are completely right and I've bolded the sections I especially agree with, but in the end, people are always working towards something. What use is working towards 4th job because you want to try out all the cool 4th job skills and go fight awesome bosses if you can't because your 4th job skills are so subpar to other classes? So many high levels quit because there's nothing for them to do, and those who stick around, like us on this board, make that clearly evident. What use is there training a class past 160? 180? Yes, 2nd and 3rd jobs deserve updates like these, but if the end result isn't changed what's the use of fixing them in the first place.
Again, I agree these changes are great and, honestly, worthwhile, but it's like throwing a bucket of water on a burning building. It doesn't really change anything in the end. 6xing with 3x cards and family buffs can net a 5x F/P close to (this is an educated guess) 400%/hr Poison Bracing DTs with Fire Arrow that hits 4 mobs. That's fantastic training, but not made so by the skills used; rather, it's the changes to the game made over the years that really make the difference. Final example: take your husband with the Explosion difference. You make the comment that it bridges the gap "a little." But in the end, what does a 10 base attack increase and 10% Amp increase do for a skill that's already so slow as compared to Mist? It's bridging the gap by building 5% of the bridge necessary to cross the ravine. In other words, Mist is so phenomenally designed as compared to Explosion that this little change won't, in the end, make the world of difference that the skills need.
BombsAway Wrote:You do realise my husband is a 2.5 year old 150 F/P right? You've met him. We both struggled through the hellish times also. He maxed explosion first without any idea of how useful mist was, and I can tell you that having a better explosion would've made the trek to 120 a whole lot easier. Besides, the gap between mist and explosion shouldn't be so disgustingly wide. No skill should be completely useless. You should be able to choose whether you want to go explosion or mist and not suffer for making that choice. This helps bridge the gap a little.
It seems to me like you're just discrediting things that don't benefit you. That extra 3000 damage from amp would allow me to 1HKO skeles sometimes as a full-luk Arch Mage. How is that not useful? You just don't seem to be looking at it from the point of the aspiring adventurer.
Besides, you said it yourself. There aren't that many high level F/P's. Not even 4th job ones. That speaks volumes about how much they need to be changed.
You are completely right and I've bolded the sections I especially agree with, but in the end, people are always working towards something. What use is working towards 4th job because you want to try out all the cool 4th job skills and go fight awesome bosses if you can't because your 4th job skills are so subpar to other classes? So many high levels quit because there's nothing for them to do, and those who stick around, like us on this board, make that clearly evident. What use is there training a class past 160? 180? Yes, 2nd and 3rd jobs deserve updates like these, but if the end result isn't changed what's the use of fixing them in the first place.
Again, I agree these changes are great and, honestly, worthwhile, but it's like throwing a bucket of water on a burning building. It doesn't really change anything in the end. 6xing with 3x cards and family buffs can net a 5x F/P close to (this is an educated guess) 400%/hr Poison Bracing DTs with Fire Arrow that hits 4 mobs. That's fantastic training, but not made so by the skills used; rather, it's the changes to the game made over the years that really make the difference. Final example: take your husband with the Explosion difference. You make the comment that it bridges the gap "a little." But in the end, what does a 10 base attack increase and 10% Amp increase do for a skill that's already so slow as compared to Mist? It's bridging the gap by building 5% of the bridge necessary to cross the ravine. In other words, Mist is so phenomenally designed as compared to Explosion that this little change won't, in the end, make the world of difference that the skills need.
Response to DustBunny
That's also him using Fire Arrow on mobs back before a lot of the new training areas came out. A 2nd job F/P with 2x and Poison Brace can make 60-80%/hr during their 5x levels at DTs; throw in Fire Arrow that hits 4 mobs and you're looking at a huge increase. F/Ps training during 2nd job are not bad, plus 2nd job Arans are a ridiculously god-tier training class anyways.
DustBunny Wrote:You know that is utter shit right? My aran never made less than 60% an hour on 2x, let alone my blaze wizard, dark knight or shadower before level 90..
That's also him using Fire Arrow on mobs back before a lot of the new training areas came out. A 2nd job F/P with 2x and Poison Brace can make 60-80%/hr during their 5x levels at DTs; throw in Fire Arrow that hits 4 mobs and you're looking at a huge increase. F/Ps training during 2nd job are not bad, plus 2nd job Arans are a ridiculously god-tier training class anyways.
Response to Greg
Nice trolling outside of the funhouse. I laughed and appreciated the nostalgia before reporting.
Greg Wrote:Arguing over a Fire Mage's THIRD JOB changes? Really?
hurWhy not just be thankful that they made things a little bit easier? Not that 3rd job F/P life was hard to begin with.
![[Image: ivg1et.jpg]](http://i48.tinypic.com/ivg1et.jpg)
Nice trolling outside of the funhouse. I laughed and appreciated the nostalgia before reporting.
Response to Bribery
This is partially the case, as the Fire Arrow increase does benefit 2nd job Mages well. However, the bottom line is that Lv. 1-120 is only, what, 20% of the game? I don't have that EXP table with percentages, but needless to say the majority of the time for any character is spent between levels 120-200, and boosting everything else while leaving that portion of the game as unbalanced as it is seems ludicrous. Yes, I know there are aspiring adventurers lower than Lv. 120 and plenty of people who would benefit from these changes, which is why I'm saying they are good, but the argument I'm making is that it's still not enough. There needs to be major upgrades at the 4th job level for any of this to really take effect, as people don't make LOLFPs so they can hit 4 monsters with Fire Arrow. People make them, and many other classes, so they can do awesome things with 4th job skills. I hope KMS realizes this and gives people something to play for.
Bribery Wrote:I think FrozNlite's main point is that with the Fire Arrow change, the Explosion boost is redundant. +10 base attack isn't going to make it useful because it's so damn slow. If Fire Arrow does 120 damage to all 4 monsters (instead of an Iron Arrow effect), it's going to outdamage Explosion regardless of it hitting fewer monsters due to its speed advantage. Explosion needs a significant power or speed boost to make it useful. With Fire Arrow hitting mobs, Explosion becomes even more useless for Mist training since most F/Ps dual channel Peak, which is a perfect map for using Fire Arrow to finish off mobs.
This is partially the case, as the Fire Arrow increase does benefit 2nd job Mages well. However, the bottom line is that Lv. 1-120 is only, what, 20% of the game? I don't have that EXP table with percentages, but needless to say the majority of the time for any character is spent between levels 120-200, and boosting everything else while leaving that portion of the game as unbalanced as it is seems ludicrous. Yes, I know there are aspiring adventurers lower than Lv. 120 and plenty of people who would benefit from these changes, which is why I'm saying they are good, but the argument I'm making is that it's still not enough. There needs to be major upgrades at the 4th job level for any of this to really take effect, as people don't make LOLFPs so they can hit 4 monsters with Fire Arrow. People make them, and many other classes, so they can do awesome things with 4th job skills. I hope KMS realizes this and gives people something to play for.
Response to Russt
I was referring to the EXP needed to go from 1-70 compared to the EXP needed to go from 1-200, in which case 1-70 is a meager .03% or something of the game. It's not my fault people don't level or *gasp* play Mages to 4th job.
Russt Wrote:Also
On Nexon's magician rankings, a level 120 mage with 0 experience is rank 16368.
If we don't count characters under level 40 as 'players', to account for mules and other things (a generous threshold), a level 40 mage with 0 experience is rank 340009.
Therefore, if we speak in terms of number of characters in existence, 4th job is actually 4.8% of the game.
I was referring to the EXP needed to go from 1-70 compared to the EXP needed to go from 1-200, in which case 1-70 is a meager .03% or something of the game. It's not my fault people don't level or *gasp* play Mages to 4th job.