Read the thread; lots to quote (sorry!). Spoiler'd for too much wall-of-texting.
And this is the best place to respond to the following quotes:
Response to DeanNim
We already HAVE mobbing skills that replace even this Fire Arrow "upgrade." In other words, it's useless.
DeanNim Wrote:Just the beginning patch, mang
Anyway, fire mages finally get mobbing skillz
We already HAVE mobbing skills that replace even this Fire Arrow "upgrade." In other words, it's useless.
Response to Shidoshi
These posts.
Fire Arrow doesn't need to be changed; if anything boost the power of Fire Demon to 250-300, lower Elquines attack speed to 1 second, and put a 10-20 second cooldown on ultimates.
Shidoshi Wrote:I just hope they don't overpower fire arrow. 2nd job F/P already trains really fast, guess they don't know how IMBA poison brace is.
Shidoshi Wrote:Going back to the topic.
I found it funny that they are buffing F/P mages 2nd and 3rd job when that's when they shine the most. Poison Brace gets exp like hell in second job and you have a very strong single-target skill making for a strong 2nd job.
In 3rd job, poison mist is almost imbalanced in ways of training. Thus explosion is weak a mob skill.
In terms of fixing, I'd rather they made partial resistance work correctly. Some apparently fire based attacks are not reduced by it.
These posts.
Fire Arrow doesn't need to be changed; if anything boost the power of Fire Demon to 250-300, lower Elquines attack speed to 1 second, and put a 10-20 second cooldown on ultimates.
And this is the best place to respond to the following quotes:
Response to Takebacker
As you saw with my math, a 10% increase is nothing. A base attack increase is more powerful with the magic damage formula than that pitiful multiplier.
Explosion is rendered completely obsolete by Fire Demon in 4th job, and even if it was as fast it's not like there are a ton of useful places for vertical fire damage...and oh wait, that's right, Meteor Shower IS our best vertical fire damage skill. In short, increasing Explosions attack speed and base attack power does nothing because it's just not a good skill in general when compared to Fire Demon.
More on Fire Arrow change below.
Have you ever played a 2nd Job F/P? I was playing mine back during winter 2006/2007. When hackers took over every map we could train in. Yet we still trained decently well compared to Assassins of the time considering we both had strong, fast single-target skills.
What's 2nd Job nowadays? A joke. You can leech a character from 1-90 in a day. If you actually train, there are now 2x cards (with 3x cards on the horizon), 2x events like no other, and as many 2x family buffs as you can buy. On top of that, the potential training maps have quadrupled, as have the number of accessible PQs. So don't give me this "it's a pain in the ass to train a 2nd job character with no mobbing skills" because buddy, I've been there when it WAS actually hard. Today you can claw your way to 70 at training maps and PQs and get there faster than I did.
Final comment on this issue: Poison Breath is an AMAZING 2nd job precursor to the godly solo training skill that is Poison Mist; people just don't recognize how phenomenal it is and flip out when they realize they have to pay a lot of wtfhax training. It's may not be a mob skill, but then it again it let's 5x F/Ps train at Death Teddies. How many 2nd jobbers do you see there?
tl;dr: Fire Arrow mob upgrade is utterly useless in today's MapleStory. Boost the last 99.97% of the game, not the first .03%.
Takebacker Wrote:@ Mages: Wow 10% increase. Fire arrow thing was so needed. Can't say explosion was buffed enough. A speed enhancement would do more than 10 measly base attack. >_>
As you saw with my math, a 10% increase is nothing. A base attack increase is more powerful with the magic damage formula than that pitiful multiplier.
Explosion is rendered completely obsolete by Fire Demon in 4th job, and even if it was as fast it's not like there are a ton of useful places for vertical fire damage...and oh wait, that's right, Meteor Shower IS our best vertical fire damage skill. In short, increasing Explosions attack speed and base attack power does nothing because it's just not a good skill in general when compared to Fire Demon.
More on Fire Arrow change below.
Takebacker Wrote:The fire arrow upgrade is only for 2nd/3rd job. You should know training a F/P in 2nd job with no mobbing skills is a pain in the ass. And by that i mean getting to 50+ so you can poison high level mobs and train faster than any other 2nd job class is hard as hell. Pretty obvious that fire arrow is already useless by 4th job.
It's already stated that this is only the beginning.
Have you ever played a 2nd Job F/P? I was playing mine back during winter 2006/2007. When hackers took over every map we could train in. Yet we still trained decently well compared to Assassins of the time considering we both had strong, fast single-target skills.
What's 2nd Job nowadays? A joke. You can leech a character from 1-90 in a day. If you actually train, there are now 2x cards (with 3x cards on the horizon), 2x events like no other, and as many 2x family buffs as you can buy. On top of that, the potential training maps have quadrupled, as have the number of accessible PQs. So don't give me this "it's a pain in the ass to train a 2nd job character with no mobbing skills" because buddy, I've been there when it WAS actually hard. Today you can claw your way to 70 at training maps and PQs and get there faster than I did.
Final comment on this issue: Poison Breath is an AMAZING 2nd job precursor to the godly solo training skill that is Poison Mist; people just don't recognize how phenomenal it is and flip out when they realize they have to pay a lot of wtfhax training. It's may not be a mob skill, but then it again it let's 5x F/Ps train at Death Teddies. How many 2nd jobbers do you see there?
tl;dr: Fire Arrow mob upgrade is utterly useless in today's MapleStory. Boost the last 99.97% of the game, not the first .03%.
Response to Bribery
Regarding the issues with other classes, this man said it all better than I could have. I agree with everything in this post.
Bribery Wrote:I don't see what's wrong with Alloy's suggestions. They're nothing game-breaking, just fixing minor annoyances with the class (unlike the guy who suggested 5-hit Brandish lololol). Yes, other classes have higher priority for updates, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't fix minor issues with balanced classes too. Heck, I thought Sairs were fine already and they got quite a boost with this update.
Regarding the issues with other classes, this man said it all better than I could have. I agree with everything in this post.
Response to Kirov
Again, yeah, maybe it's interesting, but it's also useless and unbalancing to 2nd job I/Ls.
Kirov Wrote:The 4 hitting fire arrow is really surprising. I take it will probably work like iron arrow? It’s an interesting way to change an old skill rather than just the usual reducing cool time and buffing power etc. I wonder what other skills they will change like this.
Again, yeah, maybe it's interesting, but it's also useless and unbalancing to 2nd job I/Ls.
Response to Tikey
Yeah, 3k extra damage for single targets is GREAT.
With cheap elemental wands and tons of other methods of gaining power (plus fast leveling with stacking 2x), it's easy to 100% ohko Skeles on an ArchMage. My final training levels of the game, 195-200ish, I was hitting 125-128k max hits with Meteor Shower at Skeles. 125k? That's 40k damage more than what's required to kill them. In other words, we already have enough damage on the ultimate training end; a 10% Amp upgrade doesn't do as much as a base attack increase for single targets.
Tikey Wrote:I'll embrace this 10% increase to my damage. o-o
Yeah, 3k extra damage for single targets is GREAT.
With cheap elemental wands and tons of other methods of gaining power (plus fast leveling with stacking 2x), it's easy to 100% ohko Skeles on an ArchMage. My final training levels of the game, 195-200ish, I was hitting 125-128k max hits with Meteor Shower at Skeles. 125k? That's 40k damage more than what's required to kill them. In other words, we already have enough damage on the ultimate training end; a 10% Amp upgrade doesn't do as much as a base attack increase for single targets.
Response to Goals
You're also the strongest magician in GMS. Yay (this is sincere) for your ability to 100% ohko Oblivion 5 with this upgrade, but overall it doesn't help our chances at being useful anywhere else in the game.
Goals Wrote:The mage amp bonus is nice too. I might be able to 1 hit most things in TT when we get that patch.
You're also the strongest magician in GMS. Yay (this is sincere) for your ability to 100% ohko Oblivion 5 with this upgrade, but overall it doesn't help our chances at being useful anywhere else in the game.
Response to Bribery
I'm really glad other classes got upgrades, many of which seem to be good. Overall, Nexon seems to have been somewhat on the right track with this patch, though clearly there's much more to do. If the magic damage formula gets a complete advantageous overhaul, then all of this is totally understandable...though of course, Elemental Reset for ArchMages is also an almost necessary must-have (Lv. 200 LOLFP single-target damage on Targa is a take-your-pick between 1s with Paralyze or 12ks with Fire Demon. No Lv. 200 should have their damage reduced so much).
And yes, I completely agree with your final comment regarding the new imbalance between 2nd job Mages.
Bribery Wrote:Wow then those are some awesome upgrades. I didn't think they were that significant at first. xD
I can't wait to see what else is coming up. I wonder if they're going to end up changing the magic damage formula, and I'm excited to see what Paladins get (hopefully they didn't forget about them).
Also, 2nd job I/Ls need to be updated considering that Fire Arrow is now way stronger than Cold Beam and Thunderbolt.
I'm really glad other classes got upgrades, many of which seem to be good. Overall, Nexon seems to have been somewhat on the right track with this patch, though clearly there's much more to do. If the magic damage formula gets a complete advantageous overhaul, then all of this is totally understandable...though of course, Elemental Reset for ArchMages is also an almost necessary must-have (Lv. 200 LOLFP single-target damage on Targa is a take-your-pick between 1s with Paralyze or 12ks with Fire Demon. No Lv. 200 should have their damage reduced so much).
And yes, I completely agree with your final comment regarding the new imbalance between 2nd job Mages.