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Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - ghostofhalo - 2011-09-29

Advanced Final Attack: It doesn't charge orbs.

I am completely ticked off. I just used my SP reset to max out Advanced Final Attack for some Coma spamming (and the +30 weapon attack) just to find out it doesn't charge orbs. Coma isn't spammable, I'm left with a weak mob attack and no reset. The good news is that Panic does in fact work on bosses... I guess that's a plus. So what do you all think? Intentional? Bug?

In other news:
- Final Attack no longer breaks stun. This may be false as Final Attack can only follow Coma, not the other stunning abilities.
- Coma's stun is uninterruptible while Shout and Monster Magnet's is (stunlock, quite literally).
- Monster Magnet no longer triggers Final Attack (I think it use to).
- Final Attack's range is no longer limited. You can push a monster away with Rush (seperate platforms) and still hit it 370 pixels away.
- Enrage requires 10 orbs to cast. Prior to Ascension, it only required 9 orbs. Don't ask me why.

EDIT: I changed the title due to some recent discoveries as posted above.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - The Great One - 2011-09-29

ghostofhalo Wrote:It doesn't charge orbs.

I am completely ticked off. I just used my SP reset to max out Advanced Final Attack for some Coma spamming (and the +30 weapon attack) just to find out it doesn't charge orbs. Coma isn't spammable, I'm left with a weak mob attack and no reset. The good news is that Panic does in fact work on bosses... I guess that's a plus. So what do you all think? Intentional? Bug?

You can still spam it and its quite strong. I think we just assumed that it would charge orbs come to think of it I havent seen any vids where orbs recharge off of final attack after jump.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - modular - 2011-09-29

coma rush coma rush coma rush

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - street - 2011-09-29

While on the subject. Maple warrior 20 or final attack to max?

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - modular - 2011-09-29

is 1 attack worth more the .5% base str for you?

need at least like 200 att for afa to be anywhere near worse than mw

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - JoeTang - 2011-09-29

ghostofhalo Wrote:It doesn't charge orbs.

I am completely ticked off. I just used my SP reset to max out Advanced Final Attack for some Coma spamming (and the +30 weapon attack) just to find out it doesn't charge orbs. Coma isn't spammable, I'm left with a weak mob attack and no reset. The good news is that Panic does in fact work on bosses... I guess that's a plus. So what do you all think? Intentional? Bug?

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. A lot of a Hero's theoretical DPS, especially against mobs was based under the assumption that AFA charged orbs.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - ghostofhalo - 2011-09-29

The Great One Wrote:You can still spam it and its quite strong. I think we just assumed that it would charge orbs come to think of it I havent seen any vids where orbs recharge off of final attack after jump.
If you attempt to spam it, you'll lose orbs (and damage). It's weaker than Intrepid Slash overall and the only benefit is stunning a monster (thus 1.25x damage with Chance Attack). Bosses can't be stunned, so it's otherwise useless.

modular Wrote:coma rush coma rush coma rush
Rush has a 1.2 second delay between attacks. Coma is much faster than that delay, so you can't exactly spam it as such. Rush can only deal a max of 250% damage and is the ability to not max (hits maximum monsters at maximum range for all levels). Dealing an additional 1.25x damage on top of that doesn't really boost training. You may as well stick with Intrepid Slash. Monsters that use magic are going to instantly use it after Rush and before the stun of Coma. It's not saving you potions like straight spamming of Coma could.

street Wrote:While on the subject. Maple warrior 20 or final attack to max?
I'd assume max both. With Final Attack, Intrepid Slash deals effectively 735% damage or (((675% + 150%) x 2 + (675%) x 3) / 5). With Advanced Final Attack, that number changes to 825% damage each attack or (((675% + 250%) x 3 + (675%) x 2) / 5). The gain per Intrepid Slash is 12% damage. It comes out to be close to an extra 1.5 weapon attack speed (each step is roughly 7-8% more damage). It also adds 30 more weapon attack which boosted my range by about 2000 damage. I'd say they are both worth maxing, but the order is definitely something to consider. For example, with my current level, attack, and STR, AFA 30 is better. With 25 more weapon attack (through equips), Maple Warrior 30 is better. At max level with the same stats, Maple Warrior 30 is better. Figure out what fits your character more. Otherwise, just get AFA 30 if you actively train with another class that has Maple Warrior 30.

I'm now struggling to figure out how to reset my character again. I'm only 161, so I can definitely max ACA, Enrage, and Combat Mastery. It's now down to maxing Intrepid Slash, AFA, and Power Stance. If I go strickly training, I'll have to sacrifice Enrage for a while which means my bossing damage will drop. It's not like I boss too much, but I'll have to gain 12 levels to get that damage back. I'm a little stuck. I submitted a ticket to Nexon hoping for some clarification. Shortly after I did some thorough research trying to find videos of Heroes post-Jump. Unfortunately, I'm leaning toward it being a feature than a bug. I suppose the spamming combo (for training) is Coma -> Intrepid Slash -> repeat, but that's assuming you can't kill in 2 hits anyway (this guy). It's just a matter of actually getting those abilities.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - Takebacker - 2011-09-29

Coma IS coma IS?

Coma coma IS coma coma IS?

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - ghostofhalo - 2011-09-29

Takebacker Wrote:Coma IS coma IS?

Coma coma IS coma coma IS?
Coma -> IS (620% -> 759.375%)
Coma -> Coma -> IS (620% -> 697.5% -> 675%)

With both taken to 6 attacks, Coma -> IS deals ~3.84% more damage (4138.125% compared to 3985%). It also ensures that orbs stay intact. With Coma -> Coma -> IS, there is a 20% chance you won't gain two orbs and lose (10%) damage as a result.

EDIT: Without the SP Reset and with no confirmed Hot Time event, I've lost the will to play my Hero. I don't really feel like going through 10 levels to get Intrepid Slash back using a mix of Brandish and Coma. GG Nexon. Next time you post skill updates, make sure you post them all. It would be so much easier if SP Resets were account tradeable.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - modular - 2011-09-29

3 IS > 11 brandish
9 IS > 20 brandish

really, dont bother using brandish

my hero is also in the same awkward situation at 159 where i didnt know AFA doesnt actually make for spammable coma so i left IS at 3 (and have 0 enrage). seems like 170 or 180 is the new point for heroes where you dont feel like youre lacking skills.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - MetaSeraphim - 2011-09-29

I forget, does FA work with DI?

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - Dark Zero - 2011-10-01

JoeTang Wrote:THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. A lot of a Hero's theoretical DPS, especially against mobs was based under the assumption that AFA charged orbs.

so now Heroes suck???

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - HKSmaster - 2011-10-02

Dark Zero Wrote:so now Heroes suck???
Still good for bossing :f6:
i never thought to use coma until i came to this thread... its always been IS > IS > IS > IS for me. AFA was just a nice boost to my IS.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - Blades4hire - 2011-10-02

modular Wrote:is 1 attack worth more the .5% base str for you?

need at least like 200 att for afa to be anywhere near worse than mw
>implying 200 att is a lot.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - modular - 2011-10-02

thats a fairly well equipped hero who hasnt really bought in to the game.

maybe you, who buy millions of nx, laugh at 200 attack.

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - Blades4hire - 2011-10-02

modular Wrote:thats a fairly well equipped hero who hasnt really bought in to the game.

maybe you, who buy millions of nx, laugh at 200 attack.
Yes, i laugh at 200 attack while i sit in my solid gold bathtub filled with money.
Whats your point?
A half decent sword+gloves+blessing+rings should easily get you to 200 att

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - Heffalump - 2011-10-02

Blades4hire Wrote:Yes, i laugh at 200 attack while i sit in my solid gold bathtub filled with money.
Whats your point?
A half decent sword+gloves+blessing+rings should easily get you to 200 att

Psh, that's weak.
I laugh at 301 attack while I sit in my liquid platinum bathtub filled with the tears of the last dodo while smoking a cigar made from the Shroud of Turin.
Oh, and did I mention that my bathtub is heated with burning souls?

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - modular - 2011-10-02

Blades4hire Wrote:Whats your point?
that i underestimated AFA's damage increase by only including the 30 attack

edit:

AFA adds 20% proc rate and 100% damage range to single target damage per hit, an average of 50% of your range overall to %/hit. IS + FA is a base 675% + 60% = 735%/hit. bumping 735% -> 785% is about a 6.8% overall increase.

mw is 15% base stat, overall total damage increase depends on additional flat str you have, not likely to be less than 100, and more likely to be at least 150 for fairly well scrolled gear. %str affects both and doesnt matter. at 200, you can have 999 str. therefore, mw30 is pretty much always at least 10% less effective than the 15% suggests as a total damage increase, its really more something like 13.5% at most.

13.5%-6%, to be really generous, is 7.5%. 30/.075 = 400. if you have at least 400 attack, consider getting mw first.

gee, guess 200 was a sad estimate. also, remember FA is single target only. when using IS to mob, AFA's boost will be cut by a factor of 2, 3, or 4 on the non-attack portion, which makes it easier for mw to keep up and drops requisite attack to around 250 under still generous conditions (hitting 4 mobs, 999 base str, 100 flat str from equips).

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - valhala556 - 2011-10-02

so since AFA doesnt charge orbs then that means if ur AFA is 0 regular FA still wont charge any?

Post Jump (Ascension) Heroes - ghostofhalo - 2011-10-03

valhala556 Wrote:so since AFA doesnt charge orbs then that means if ur AFA is 0 regular FA still wont charge any?
AFA is passive and boosts FA, so chances are it doesn't work either. 20% less proc rate makes it too easy to lose Coma as a spammable attack. You would have a 60% chance to lose orbs, 8% chance to break even, and 32% chance to gain. It's too hard to sustain Coma without AFA. Since AFA doesn't charge orbs, you'll more or less be using Brandish + Coma or IS + Coma for mobs and plain IS (with Panic) for bosses.