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+--- Thread: For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still (/showthread.php?tid=36993)
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Erebus - 2011-01-28
Yahoo; Wrote:The end of a black holes evolution may be a mind-bending kind of space-time independent of time. A new study proposes a method to tell how far any black hole is from reaching this end state.Source
Black holes are some of the weirdest things in the universe. They occur when mass is packed into a tiny volume, squished to its ultimate density.
Though observations suggest black holes are prevalent in the universe, scientists still don't really understand what goes on inside them. The equations of general relativity usually used to understand the physics of the universe break down in these cases.
"It is really beyond the physics we know," said Juan Antonio Valiente Kroon, a mathematician at Queen Mary, University of London. "To understand what happens inside a black hole, we need to invent new physics."
Mercifully, the physics for the end state of a black hole is somewhat simpler. A solution to the equations of general relativity was found that produced a situation called "Kerr spacetime." Scientists now think Kerr spacetime is what happens when a black hole has reached its final evolutionary state.
"Mainly the equations of relativity are so complex that for relativistic systems, the only way you can probe these equations is by means of computer," Valiente Kroon told SPACE.com. "Solutions like this Kerr solution are really exceptional. The Kerr solution is one of the few explicitly known solutions to general relativity that have a direct physical meaning."
Kerr spacetime is time-independent, meaning that nothing in Kerr spacetime changes over time. In effect, time stands still. A black hole in such a state is essentially stationary.
"One could say once it has reached this stage, there are no further processes taking place," Valiente Kroon said.
In their new study, Valiente Kroon and Thomas Backdahl, his colleague at Queen Mary, have calculated a formula to determine how close a black hole is to reaching the Kerr state.
This can happen very quickly even in seconds depending on the object's mass.
To apply the formula, scientists would examine the region around a black hole called its event horizon. Once mass, or even light, passes within the event horizon of a black hole, it cannot escape the black hole's gravitational clutches.
The researchers think their development could aid scientists who are building computer simulations of black holes and aiming to align them with observations of actual black holes.
Astronomers think most galaxies, including our own Milky Way, host supermassive black holes in their centers. Some researchers suspect that these are actually Kerr black holes.
Valiente Kroon and Backdahl detail their work in the Jan. 19 issue of the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society A.
Interesting hypothesis.
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Devil - 2011-01-30
Why did I totally miss this post? o.0
Very interesting indeed!
Still... it doesn't explain Hawking Radiation and the Gamma Ray bursts. If time stands still inside, nothing can come out... right? :o
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - WayOfTime - 2011-01-30
That may be true, but this only applies when it has reached FULL maturity. So, if a black hole is sub-maturity, it means time is still flowing, albeit at a reduced rate, meaning that this radiation can still be produced.
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Anonymous Moose - 2011-01-30
Devil Wrote:Why did I totally miss this post? o.0
Very interesting indeed!
Still... it doesn't explain Hawking Radiation and the Gamma Ray bursts. If time stands still inside, nothing can come out... right? :o
That assumes there are only 4 dimensions to travel in, time being the 4th. In theory (like almost every non-observed trait of black holes), there could be up to 10 or 11 dimensions. This would mean that radiation could escape in a different way.
Of course, this is just another hypothesis which unproven.
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Alloy - 2011-01-30
Very interesting... I always love all time bending hypothesis...
Also, technically, if you freeze time in there, but matter escapes... Wouldn't the gravity remain the same since when the black hole first appeared? Like some kind of paradox that sustains itself... That'd be quite interesting, like a glitch in the fabrics of the universe... Also meaning that matter sucked in can still be out of there, if there's an exit way :p
Just my paranoid hypothesis :p
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Flonne - 2011-01-30
Since black holes pull in matter and use it as an energy source, this hypothesis actually could make a lot of sense. If black holes do indeed have an end phase like this Kerr phase, that would bring up a whole new set of questions, though; since time is at a standstill, how is it still able to power itself? If it is at a standstill, that means it could no longer pull in new energy or use that which it has already absorbed, so wouldn't that technically just mean the black hole is "dead" and wouldn't even appear on our plane of existence anymore? Also, if it "dies" in this manner, since it does not actually collapse, how would it visually cease to exist from our standpoint? Or, are they referring to the fact that the processes have stabilized ad infinitum, even though they say the processes have stopped? Previous theories stated that even primordial black holes have a halflife and should die, even though their "death" would technically occur long after our universe has already either reached stagnation by overexpansion of molecules or has returned to a singularity in preparation for the next of an infinite line of Big Bangs, respectively, since we can't really predict with certainty what actually happens...
Devil Wrote:Why did I totally miss this post? o.0
Very interesting indeed!
Still... it doesn't explain Hawking Radiation and the Gamma Ray bursts. If time stands still inside, nothing can come out... right? :o
I was under the impression that GRBs were just random expulsions of mass energy. The force that causes a black hole can cause one, but black holes can't unless they collapse, can they?
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Devil - 2011-01-31
Flonne Wrote:I was under the impression that GRBs were just random expulsions of mass energy. The force that causes a black hole can cause one, but black holes can't unless they collapse, can they?Hmmm still it's strange, that some SMBH's do collapse, and others turn into a Kerr state... what determines then why some black holes collapse and others don't and turn into a Kerr state... :o
Oh btw, something else I thought of today:
When the Big Bang happened, the Universe expanded way faster then the speed of light, even the matter within it, which shouldn't be able to happen.
Wouldn't it be possible that the Universe before the Big Bang was in a massive Kerr state (Ultra Massive Blackhole anyone?
), and that something else made it come out of it's Kerr state (Anti-Matter UMBH collision?), creating some sort of Kerr Explosion, which slowed down time (4th dimension) allowing the Universe to expand at the speed of light, but since time was compressed by the Kerr state, it only appears to us now that the universe expanded faster then the speed of light?
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Flonne - 2011-01-31
Just my personal theory, but in order for the laws of the universe to operate on a grand scale, due to the differing rates of speed on the expansion of the universe, the absolute value of the speed of light should probably be in a constant state of change. Bear with me; seeing as, at the beginning, the universe was moving outward at an incredible velocity, shouldn't the speed of light have been set as that velocity? However, if that were the case, a major problem would arise; as the universe's expansion slows and the speed of light stays the same, it is inevitable that light would escape the outer limits of the universe itself. Using a dimensional theory, that should not be possible; using an omniverse based model, it would be possible but would cause our universe to eventually literally be drained of internal power as light escaped. Of course this would take an extravagant amount of time, but I just don't feel that that would be feasible.
Since no biological entities, at least not in our frame of influence, were alive at the time of the Big Bang, we cannot even test that theory; the only flaw I see with it is that, while it could trick those with the capacity for rational thought, the universe still could not trick "itself", I'm thinking. Unless the Kerr phase actually physically distorts all of the current laws of the universe in such a way that light speed can be drastically altered for a frame of time, that is. The whole "antimatter" thesis that states that dark matter is causing our universe to continue to expand at a steady rate would keep the speed of light steady, as well.
Discussions like this stretch the mind, but on that same note, I sure wish we had some circumstantial evidence, or even solid proof; I'd prefer to have facts than imagine them ;_;
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2011-02-02
This theory is easily shot down for one reason...
Quote:They occur when mass is packed into a tiny volume, squished to its ultimate density.Wrong. They occur when the force of gravity exceeds the escape velocity of light due to the amount of mass gathered in a single point state can not support itself through nuclear fusion processes and is squeezed down to an infinite volumetric point with infinite volumetric density reducing all matter down to pure energy in the form of radiation like gamma rays.
The quoted statement is not true for a Black Hole, but it is true for another entity called a Neutron Star which reaches the ultimate density in the smallest possible volume in which atomic particles are squeezed so tightly electrons and protons are released or are smashed together until they form a cluster of pure neutrons which continue to emit light and radiation.
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Devil - 2011-02-02
Jamie_Kurosawa Wrote:This theory is easily shot down for one reason...Hmmm, isn't a black hole more dense then a neutron star? :o
Wrong. They occur when the force of gravity exceeds the escape velocity of light due to the amount of mass gathered in a single point state can not support itself through nuclear fusion processes and is squeezed down to an infinite volumetric point with infinite volumetric density reducing all matter down to pure energy in the form of radiation like gamma rays.
The quoted statement is not true for a Black Hole, but it is true for another entity called a Neutron Star which reaches the ultimate density in the smallest possible volume in which atomic particles are squeezed so tightly electrons and protons are released or are smashed together until they form a cluster of pure neutrons which continue to emit light and radiation.
For Fully Mature Black Holes, Time Stands Still - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2011-02-02
A Black Hole is infinitely dense and goes beyond what normal calculations can derive and present meaning to. Any attempt to calculate a Black Hole ends up with an answer of Infinity or Infinity to the Infinite power... Source taken from Physicist Dr. Michio Kaku.
A Neutron Star is the last possible limit of density before gravity and mass overtake matter presenting the highest possible mass with gravitational force in the smallest possible space.