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+--- Thread: Blast ignoring PDRate? (/showthread.php?tid=29243)
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Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-20
I've seen a video of some paladin post-BB:
[video=youtube;8If-JeOOuWU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8If-JeOOuWU[/video]
His damage range on-screen is 11042-11747. This would give a 94% mastery due to ACB, which could be correct.
Now let's see his hits. The highest non-crit I see on the screen, caused by blast, is 50012 (0:20)
The things he has on as buffs that wouldn't show up in his stat window would be Black Aura, and the 2 charges.
Let's be positive and say that it's Adv. Black Aura, so +30% damage, and that the charges work multiplicative, so 125%*130%=162,5%.
Toghether, that's 192.5% damage increase, which gives him a max hit of 11747*192,5%=22554.
His blast is level 3, which is 226% damage each hit and has 7% chance to ignore defence, according to this thread, and KMS's WZ files.
Blue wyverns have a PDRate of 25 and a WDEF of 850. (Open the spoiler in Shidoshi's post to see them all)
Now if he would hit his max, which is 22554 with blast on a Blue Wyvern, he would hit 22554*226%*75% (this is with the 7% chance of ignoring his 850 def), which is 38229. His max hit is higher then this...
Now let's think about that defence ignoring is PDRate...: 22554*226%-850=50122. That seems pretty perfect with the 50012.
According to the WZ files, the thing that Blast does is "ignoreMobpdpR"... Skills like Marksmenship, Combat Mastery, Triple Throw, Demolition, Wild Instinct and Finish Attack have the same "ignoreMobpdpR".
Also, the lowest hit I've seen is 38996 (0:25). The lowest hit on his damage range is 11042. 11042*192,5%=21225.
21225*226%*75%-850 (so not hitting that 7% ignoring def) = 35126, which is also possible with 38996.
Discuss please!
Blast ignoring PDRate? - Fiel - 2010-08-20
I wouldn't throw this idea out - it does make logical sense. But I wouldn't believe in it yet. Your calculations make too many assumptions on how multipliers work (is Black Aura additive or multiplicative? If additive, is it before or after the multiplication? How do dual charges work?). There's too much uncertainty.
Also, the highest hit in the video, assuming you are correct, is 50012. Your calculation including PDRate states that maximum is 50122 but that does not account for the enemy's WDEF and the observed 50012 does count for it. Something is off in your calculations but I don't know what it is.
See if you can find a dude hitting a lower level mob with blast without a charge. That will more clearly define how ignoreMobpdpR works.
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-20
Fiel Wrote:I wouldn't throw this idea out - it does make logical sense. But I wouldn't believe in it yet. Your calculations make too many assumptions on how multipliers work (is Black Aura additive or multiplicative? If additive, is it before or after the multiplication? How do dual charges work?). There's too much uncertainty.
Also, the highest hit in the video, assuming you are correct, is 50012. Your calculation including PDRate states that maximum is 50122 but that does not account for the enemy's WDEF and the observed 50012 does count for it. Something is off in your calculations but I don't know what it is.
See if you can find a dude hitting a lower level mob with blast without a charge. That will more clearly define how ignoreMobpdpR works.
I said "Let's be positive": I used the best things possible for the charges and the black aura. The charges could be additive, making it 155%.
And I did use 22554*226%-850=50122 to come to that number, including the 850 from their WDef as I heard it was calculated this way. I'll see if i can find more pally vids post-BB
Oh, and if Adv. Black Aura would be multiplicative, then his max hit, not including blast, should be: 11747*162,5%*130%=24816.
If it would only ignore WDEF, his max hit on Blue Wyvs should be 24816*226%*75%=42063, which also doesn't explain his max hit...
Blast ignoring PDRate? - youngtse - 2010-08-20
The blue wyvern he was hunting is lv137, according to the thread you refer to, lv137 blue wyvern PDrate is 10
(which is weird, lv101 blue wyvern PDrate is 25?? higher than lv137 one?)
Also you forgot that blue wyvern is fire weak, so the paladin get 150% advantage damage
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-20
youngtse Wrote:The blue wyvern he was hunting is lv137, according to the thread you refer to, lv137 blue wyvern PDrate is 10
(which is weird, lv101 blue wyvern PDrate is 25?? higher than lv137 one?)
Dang you´re right. And I thought of something really stupid: He has fire charge on, and Blue Wyvs are Fire-Weak.... -.-
Blast ignoring PDRate? - mamaloki - 2010-08-20
one question. Is dual charge now multiplicative or still additive like now???
I always though the dual charge formula before and after revamp is the same and is additive (which is additional of 25% damage from lightning?)
Blast ignoring PDRate? - 50504724 - 2010-08-20
focus on another buff: Bossing Armor
So 38996 damage is not base on 11042.
some data:
Str: 1012
Dex: 65
Base damage: 11042 ~ 11747
with buff:
Lv? dark aura(not sure it is Lv.30 or 32 or less)
Lv12 Bossing Armor(epad + 34)
So this second, watt is 11747 * 100 / 1.20 / (1012 * 4 + 65) = 238
err...make little sence.
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-20
50504724 Wrote:focus on another buff: Bossing Armor
So 38996 damage is not base on 11042.
Wait.. I thought bossing armor was just a sort of defence-improving skill D= I'm probably wrong... so what does it do?
Blast ignoring PDRate? - mamaloki - 2010-08-20
If I am not wrong, when bossing armour activated, it add 30 wa to your attack. beside that, also give guard for 5/6 time depending whether CO activated or not.
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-21
mamaloki Wrote:If I am not wrong, when bossing armour activated, it add 30 wa to your attack. beside that, also give guard for 5/6 time depending whether CO activated or not.
That's just amazing D=
But I can't find any variable of 30 in the english (or korean) skill description. Only 30 sec cooldown D=
Blast ignoring PDRate? - 50504724 - 2010-08-21
kruimel0 Wrote:That's just amazing D=
But I can't find any variable of 30 in the english (or korean) skill description. Only 30 sec cooldown D=
skill.1220013.common.prop 2*x
skill.1220013.common.epad 10+2*x <-- here
skill.1220013.common.x u(x/2)
skill.1220013.common.time 60
skill.1220013.common.cooltime 30
skill.1220013.common.maxLevel 10
Lv.12 increase watt by 34 that I've got a mistake..
Blast ignoring PDRate? - mamaloki - 2010-08-21
kruimel0 Wrote:That's just amazing D=
But I can't find any variable of 30 in the english (or korean) skill description. Only 30 sec cooldown D=
as you know, the description is often not correct. Like charge blow, it is already spammable in 3rd job but they never change the description.
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-24
Okay... I have been looking a bit more into this... And this is what I found...:
He has that +30 w.atk buff on 0:10 to 0:20, 1:19 to 1:45 and 2:23 to the end of the video. I have ignored the damage he dealt in those times.
The MinNoCritACBDmg he dealt was 81616.
The MaxNoCritACBDmg he dealt was 86646. That gives a mastery of 94,2%, so one can say those numbers are pretty correct.
Then, his ACB level is 12, so 480% damage.
Now let's calculate the Dual Charging + Weakness.
Min: (11042*480%*X-850)*90% = 81616. X = 1,727.
Max: (11747*480%*X-850)*90% = 86646. X = 1,722.
Avg X = 1,725 =172,5%
That means that damage should be multiplied by around 172,5%.
That 172,5% should be dual charging and weakness. Now there are a couple theories for dual charging. I put them here and show what the Elemental Weakness bonus should be then.
1) 125%*130% = 162,5%, EleWeak = 172,5%/162,5% = 6,15%.
2) 130%+(25%/2) = 142,5%, EleWeak = 172,5%/142,5% = 21,05%.
3) 125%+(30%/2) = 140%, EleWeak = 172,5%/140% = 23,21%.
And now the last theory, which is just... too perfect:
4) 125%*(30%/2+1) = 143,75%, EleWeak = 172,5%/143,65% = 20,00%
That would mean his theoratical damage with ACB would be:
Min: (11042*480%*172,5%-850)*90% = 81520, which fits perfectly.
Max: (11747*480%*172,5%-850)*90% = 86774, which fits in perfectly.
Then getting back to Blast. That max hit of 50040 was in a part where he had the 30 w.atk buff on, so I'm not using that anymore, I'm using 41234 (0:54) as max and 38977 as min.
Blast is 226% damage (level 3).
Damage output should be:
Min: (11042*226%*172,5%-850)*90% = 37978, so well below the lowest hit seen (38977).
Max hit should be ignoring one of the 2 defences (if I can conclude that the max hit will be in that 7% of def-ignoring).
PDRate-ignoring: (11747*226%*172,5%-850) = 44946, which seems a little bit too high.
PDDefence-ignoring: (11747*226%*172,5%)*90% = 41216, which is lower then his maximum hit D=
Conclusion:
I think:
That dual charging works as follows:
(Lightning charge %)*((Other Charge %-1)/2+1 (so that 130% becomes 115% f.e. )).
That is:
Lightning+Fire=125%*115% =143,25%
Lightning+Ice= 125%*110% = 137,5%
Lightning+Holy= 125%*117,5% = 146,875%
That a monster weak to one of those elements (or for sure the 2nd element) takes 20% extra damage.
That ignoreMobpdpR does indeed ignore PDRate *yay*
Any missers here?
Can anyone like... think further about this? =P
Blast ignoring PDRate? - 50504724 - 2010-08-25
yep you are missed a big one:
Watt+34 BUFF IS available when you get the base damage: 11042 ~ 11747
The MinNoCritACBDmg he dealt was 81616.
what I have found is 81523.
With the damn buff the damage rate is 99284~105161
From my calculation:
Dual charge formula is not changed after BB , 130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1
So: ((11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) - 850 * (0.5~0.6) )* 480% * 0.9 = 96777 ~ 103464
a bit less?
IGNORE PADamage... and just see what's happening.
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 480% * 0.9 = 98980 ~ 105300
perfect fits the number.
But when I use the formula on Blast it doesn't work well.
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% * [1 - 10%*(1-7%)]
or
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% * [1 - (10% - 7%)]
I must miss something somewhere......
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-25
50504724 Wrote:yep you are missed a big one.
Watt+34 BUFF IS available when you get the base damage: 11042 ~ 11747
The MinNoCritACBDmg he dealt was 81616.
what I have found is 81523.
With the damn buff the damage rate is 99284~105161
From my calculation:
Dual charge formula is not changed after BB , 130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1
So: ((11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) - 850 * (0.5~0.6) )* 480% * 0.9 = 96777 ~ 103464
a bit less?
IGNORE PADamage... and just see what's happening.
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 480% * 0.9 = 98980 ~ 105300
perfect fits the number.
But when I use the formula on Blast it doesn't work well.
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% * [1 - 10%*(1-7%)]
or
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% * [1 - (10% - 7%)]
I must miss something somewhere......
ACB doesn't ignore PDDamage, only Blast does at a low percentage (7% at level 3) and then Blast ignores all the def, not 7% of it.
But the part about that +34 ATK buff is a good one... Or maybe it doesn't show on the damage range.
And since when is def calculated as DEF*(0,5~0,6)? I thought it was just DEF*1...
If you completely ignore PDRate with blast, you get:
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% -(850*(0,55)) = 54602 as max, min won't ingore all PDRate, so min would be:
(11042) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% -(850*(0,55))*90% = 51360. But these are both above the highest damage seen D=
Me not understand anymore.
Blast ignoring PDRate? - 50504724 - 2010-08-25
kruimel0 Wrote:ACB doesn't ignore PDDamage, only Blast does at a low percentage (7% at level 3) and then Blast ignores all the def, not 7% of it.
But the part about that +34 ATK buff is a good one... Or maybe it doesn't show on the damage range.
And since when is def calculated as DEF*(0,5~0,6)? I thought it was just DEF*1...
If you completely ignore PDRate with blast, you get:
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% -(850*(0,55)) = 54602 as max, min won't ingore all PDRate, so min would be:
(11042) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% -(850*(0,55))*90% = 51360. But these are both above the highest damage seen D=
Me not understand anymore.
All attacks ignore PDD is one of my assumptions --- maybe this property is forgotten ,and instead by PDrate.
But that case can't explain all the damage ranges.
Bossing armour Buff will show on the table, from a video that I've seen these days.
Which distracted me most is : Adv dark aura ,and watt without buffs.
Asuume that dark aura increase att by 21% ,
It is easy to calculated that watt without bossing armour is (238 / 1.21 - 34 )*1.21 = 197
Then base damage come to 9140 ~ 9723.
SO ACB damage range is (9140 ~ 9723) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 480% * 0.9 = 81930 ~ 87156
a bit more than 81523 ~ 86646 from video, isn't it?
by the way, 196 watt fits ACB and Rush damage range , but blast doesn't ......
"ignoreMobpdpR" works on each hit, or min damage can't close to 94% of max perfectly.
Is it additive 90% + 7% = 97% ? or multiplicative 90% + 7% * 10% = 90.7% ?
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-25
50504724 Wrote:All attacks ignore PDD is one of my assumptions --- maybe this property is forgotten ,and instead by PDrate.
But that case can't explain all the damage ranges.
Bossing armour Buff will show on the table, from a video that I've seen these days.
Which distracted me most is : Adv dark aura ,and watt without buffs.
Asuume that dark aura increase att by 21% ,
It is easy to calculated that watt without bossing armour is (238 / 1.21 - 34 )*1.21 = 197
Then base damage come to 9140 ~ 9723.
SO ACB damage range is (9140 ~ 9723) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 480% * 0.9 = 81930 ~ 87156
a bit more than 81523 ~ 86646 from video, isn't it?
by the way, 196 watt fits ACB and Rush damage range , but blast doesn't ......
"ignoreMobpdpR" works on each hit, or min damage can't close to 94% of max perfectly.
Is it additive 90% + 7% = 97% ? or multiplicative 90% + 7% * 10% = 90.7% ?
Doesn't Adv. Dark Aura add 31% (20% from Adv. and 11% from basic)?
Also, why would all attacks ignore PDDamage? Wouldn't it then be totally useless to have it added?
That means his attack would be without bossing armor: ROUNDDOWN(238/1,31-34)*1,31 = 192
Then base damage would be 8908 ~ 9467.
His ACB damage would be (8908 ~ 9467) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 480% * 0.9 = 79851 ~ 84862, which is actually less then his DmgRange in game. Does he even have max Adv. Dark Aura, not like level 15 Adv. Dark Aura or even just normal Dark Aura? T.T
That renders the complete next part useless (I wrote that before this)...
And I don't think minDmg will match 94% of maxDmg of Blast, I am for some reason still thinking that blast completely ignores one of the defences with a set rate.
BlastMin = (8908*226%*(130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1)-850*0,55)*90% = 37176, which matches 38977.
BlastMax (if it completely ignores PDD) = (9467*226%*(130% * 1,5 + 12,5% * 1))*90% = 39956, which doesn't fit the 41234 max hit.
BlastMax (if it completely ignores PDRate) = (9467*226%*(130% * 1,5 + 12,5% * 1)-850*0,55) = 43928, which fits the max hit.
BlastMax (if it ingores 7% of PDRate, v1) = (9467*226%*(130% * 1,5 + 12,5% * 1)-850*0,55)*(90%*93%) = 36768, which doesn't fit at all.
BlastMax (if it ignores 7% of PDRate, v2, additive) = (9467*226%*(130% * 1,5 + 12,5% * 1)-850*0,55)*(97%) = 42610, which could fit. There's just one problem here... what if you get 11%+ IgnoreMobpdpR?
BlastMax (if it ignores 7% of PDRate, v3, multiplicative) = 9467*226%*(130% * 1,5 + 12,5% * 1)-850*0,55)*(90,7%) = 39842, which doesn't fit at all.
I only see two options for ignoreMobpdpR, of which one seems really unreasonable.
Blast ignoring PDRate? - willama - 2010-08-26
Quote:The MinNoCritACBDmg he dealt was 81616.hi kruime thanks for really nice sharing,..its really useful for others,..
what I have found is 81523.
With the damn buff the damage rate is 99284~105161
From my calculation:
Dual charge formula is not changed after BB , 130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1
So: ((11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) - 850 * (0.5~0.6) )* 480% * 0.9 = 96777 ~ 103464
a bit less?
IGNORE PADamage... and just see what's happening.
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 480% * 0.9 = 98980 ~ 105300
perfect fits the number.
But when I use the formula on Blast it doesn't work well.
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% * [1 - 10%*(1-7%)]
or
(11042 ~ 11747) * (130% * 1.5 + 12.5% * 1) * 226% * [1 - (10% - 7%)]
Blast ignoring PDRate? - chlqss - 2010-08-26
50504724 have got a new Paladin video,maybe that video can solve the problem
Blast ignoring PDRate? - kruimel0 - 2010-08-26
chlqss Wrote:晕 颠倒你就不能换个视频研究。。昨天不是给你一个视频
Google Translate:
Halo you can not reverse the video of another. . Yesterday, a video is not for you
I have never said that video was mine. I am just examinind it to see what Dual Charging / Ele Adv / ignoreMobpdpR means.
BTW, is that your video? If that's the case, please post some more videos so we can finally find it out <3