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+--- Thread: On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing (/showthread.php?tid=11413)
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On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MasPan - 2009-05-18
[color="#cc8899"]Just some thinking out loud again -
People constantly compare gMS to other versions regarding bossing, especially where Pink Bean is concerned, based on the Onyx Apple advantage. The bragging/complaining revolves around these attack potions seems to be of the perception that having these potions gives gMS players the ability to kill things they couldn't otherwise. My question -
Why?
Really, the only advantage they give is a drastically decreased timespan for the killing of said bosses: they don't affect HP, so thieves, archers, and even some pirates are still going to struggle to take a hit. They don't dramatically increase accuracy, so they don't allow warriors and pirates that couldn't normally damage him to hit him. They don't change any aspect of the boss other than the time it takes to kill it. In other words, while they are convenient, they won't change the fact that it only takes a bit of lag or a simple mistake for entire parties to be wiped out.
tldr: Shut up about Onyx apples and Pink Bean. They won't affect anything other than how long it takes to kill him, which is a moot point if we can't do so in the first place.[/COLOR]
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - Russt - 2009-05-18
Doesn't PB have a time limit?
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MasPan - 2009-05-18
Russt Wrote:Doesn't PB have a time limit?
Yes, but that shouldn't be a major issue in a well-organized run. Especially when you factor in Blessing of the Sprite.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - Cyanne - 2009-05-18
Yeah, the point is the extremely restrictive one-hour time limit, which really isn't nearly enough to take down 7.65bil of hp with 30 people without apples, 2.1bil of which is neutral-resistant.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MasPan - 2009-05-18
Cyanne Wrote:Yeah, the point is the extremely restrictive one-hour time limit, which really isn't nearly enough to take down 7.65bil of hp with 30 people without apples, 2.1bil of which is neutral-resistant.
Oh, it's seriously only 1 hour? I thought it was more, that makes more sense then. Disregard.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - Jirai - 2009-05-18
Also the longer a fight takes the higher chance of something going wrong.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MasPan - 2009-05-18
Jirai Wrote:Also the longer a fight takes the higher chance of something going wrong.
True, but again, it's not something that would make or break a normal boss fight, disregarding one that has an absurdly short timer.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - LightningZLaser - 2009-05-18
Unless 30 Warriors with apples can deal more dmg than a regular bossing pt
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - JoeTang - 2009-05-18
MasPan Wrote:True, but again, it's not something that would make or break a normal boss fight, disregarding one that has an absurdly short timer.
So you're assuming that in a normal boss fight, the chance of anything bad happening is 0%? That's wonderful in happyland or whatever the pomegranate, but this is reality.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MasPan - 2009-05-18
JoeTang Wrote:So you're assuming that in a normal boss fight, the chance of anything bad happening is 0%? That's wonderful in happyland or whatever the pomegranate, but this is reality.
No, what I specifically said that they shorten the time a boss run would take. Kinda figured it was implied that that means less chance of things going wrong, but that wasn't the issue I was getting at - there will still be very few non-warrior/mages capable of surviving his attacks to begin with. When you die within 2-3 attacks, time isn't a factor.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - KajitiSouls - 2009-05-18
I'm thinking back to the time when Zakum runs took 3 hours, where there was no such thing as 4th job, and CBs practically ran the success or failure of the group.
Groups starts running. 2 hours and 30 minutes later, a person that was going to loot a Zhelm d/cs. His computer was super powerful, but his internet just happened to fail. And boy is he pissed.
MasPan, while I agree that higher attack isn't a necessity in any sense, it does give a great advantage in terms of preventing stupid mishaps like the one above. A shorter fight time also means people can fit the boss fight into their schedule and not have to drop out in the middle of it just because "they have to go to a friend's house".
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - Vernacular - 2009-05-18
Well it isn't just the fact the gMS has Onyx Apples,
You have so many more upgrades.
More highly and godly scrolled items, along with items that add a lot of attack.
Plus with a whole lot bigger amount of players to go against something, but I'm not sure on the whole "how many people can be at PB" thing so that point may be irrelevant.
gMS has alot of upgrades and kMS doesn't,
not saying that your argument is bad it is just hard to compare.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MasPan - 2009-05-18
KajitiSouls Wrote:I'm thinking back to the time when Zakum runs took 3 hours, where there was no such thing as 4th job, and CBs practically ran the success or failure of the group.
Groups starts running. 2 hours and 30 minutes later, a person that was going to loot a Zhelm d/cs. His computer was super powerful, but his internet just happened to fail. And boy is he pissed.
MasPan, while I agree that higher attack isn't a necessity in any sense, it does give a great advantage in terms of preventing stupid mishaps like the one above. A shorter fight time also means people can fit the boss fight into their schedule and not have to drop out in the middle of it just because "they have to go to a friend's house".
I understand, but again, the main point I am trying to get accross is that this is a boss where raw damage isn't going to be enough for this boss, especially considering his damage reflection. In terms of survivability, which supersedes all else against Pink Bean, gMS has about a 300 hp advantage from MoNs. While apples will allow for more error and shorten the run, the fact is most of gMS isn't capable of taking a hit from him regardless. When you're dead, you do 0 damage. No attack multiplier is going to change that 0 to anything helpful.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - pikAchu1986 - 2009-05-18
u muz understand tat pink bean only haf 1 hour limit to kill it...tat y oynx apple make such a big deal
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MasPan - 2009-05-18
pikAchu1986 Wrote:u muz understand tat pink bean only haf 1 hour limit to kill it...tat y oynx apple make such a big deal
I noted that in Cyanne's post. That's a completely ridiculous limit that shouldn't be there to begin with though. And again, when you can't survive a hit, it doesn't matter.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - pikAchu1986 - 2009-05-18
yea...becox of tat time limit make pink bean undefeatable till now...
in mapleSEA i belif thrs a lods of ppl haf enough hp to take the dmg...
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - draconius - 2009-05-18
We have many attributes that are superior to KMS. For instance, the Mark of the Naricain is most likely better than even JMS' thrice scrolled HT pendants (well, I would assume they're more common at least), which greatly reduces our need for absurdly high amounts of HP washing. Apples double or triple the damage output of sins and BMs, which makes it much easier to kill PB if it did come. Also, consider the sheer number of GMSers that are willing/strong enough to fight PB. KMS services a country of 60Million people; GMS services a landmass of over 330. There are many many more talented and strong players in our version than their are in the original MS, especially since we have 2x (and now 4x). You should probably note, too, that the previous God knows how many runs that have taken place thus far have been "well-organized" too, and they all failed before the time limit.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - AngryFungus - 2009-05-18
A longer timespan gives way to more mistakes and the possibility of death. Also, one might run out of potions.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - Nikkey - 2009-05-18
MasPan Wrote:tldr: Shut up about Onyx apples and Pink Bean. They won't affect anything other than how long it takes to kill him, which is a moot point if we can't do so in the first place.
Pots, stars, chance of failure, chance of lagging out...
MasPan Wrote:No, what I specifically said that they shorten the time a boss run would take. Kinda figured it was implied that that means less chance of things going wrong, but that wasn't the issue I was getting at - there will still be very few non-warrior/mages capable of surviving his attacks to begin with. When you die within 2-3 attacks, time isn't a factor.
It is. Why did people have issues with HT? Because that frigging tail killed a ton of people. Killing it first made success almost a guarantee. Not killing it would kill a ton of seducers and ranged people.
On the effects of ATT potions regarding bossing - MaxHudson - 2009-05-18
Somthing about GMS though with bossing. Before we got Leafry.
KMS had Leafry for a looong loonnng time. and it took months after months before they could kill horntail. I remember a thread just like this saying "Apples won't effect anything. There is no way a group could last/stay alive the entire battle without dcing/having to go!"
Then 1st day of leafry in Scania. "Horntail has been defeted" (Eather 1st or 2nd...) Yeah, Veng took HT down in a 1H~30M. So I have this feeling, once all the quests are done and a team in a strong server is set up, they WILL kill in there first try. Just where my bets are.