Miracle Time Possibly Rigged?

I'm sure many of us can say that the miracle time with red/black cubes felt as if it wasn't miracle time at all and bonus pot cubes worked perfectly fine. It seems the majority of players can agree with me. Unlike double exp events, we don't have actual proof we're getting a double rate of ranking up and we just take Nexon's word for it. I'm asking for Nexon to be cooperative and release extractions or numbers of some sort from the cubes during normal rates and miracle time rates. If anything, please check if the chances of ranking up were doubled during miracle time because I know the double tier jump was working, but not so sure about easier rank ups. Another thing to note is it seems black cubes are better than red cubes in ranking up tiers, but you guys never mention that. This feels true, and if it is, please inform everyone because many people used red cubes.

TLDR: I'M ASKING NEXON FOR SOME CUBING NUMBER EXTRACTIONS REGULARLY AND DURING MIRACLE TIME

Edit 2:
1. Bonus pot cubes worked fine
2. Rare>Unique aka double rank up worked fine
3. Double the chance to tier up, very very debatable
4. The point of this thread is so Nexon can look into this, the sample population is more than enough and everyone is saying practically the same thing

by its very definition it's rigged

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Originally Posted by MuscleWizard

by its very definition it's rigged

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It's a miracle if you get anything to rank up. :f3:

Mine was good and don't believe it's rigged at all.

I don't think it was rigged. It's just that the rank up rates for Red/Black/Meister cubes are pomegranatety to begin with. The old Super Cubes were much better.

~400 black and 300 red cubes off of miracle time and 0 rank up

36 black and 61 meister on miracle time and 0 rank up

0*2 = 0

working as intended

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Originally Posted by mrtootsieroll

TLDR: I'M ASKING NEXON FOR SOME CUBING NUMBER EXTRACTIONS REGULARLY AND DURING MIRACLE TIME

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You're not going to get them. Knowing rates are low/you have bad luck/whatever and still gambling (because thats what cubes are, except you don't actually stand to gain anything) is your problem.

Anyone further confirm miracle time still works with carved cubes? I know someone who got 3 uni weapon bonus pots so i think it does work

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Originally Posted by Takebacker

Anyone further confirm miracle time still works with carved cubes? I know someone who got 3 uni weapon bonus pots so i think it does work

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It does, my gun jumped from Rare to Unique and my secondary went from Rare->Epic->Unique within 5 cubes.

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Originally Posted by Takebacker

Anyone further confirm miracle time still works with carved cubes? I know someone who got 3 uni weapon bonus pots so i think it does work

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miracle time definitely works for all cubes.

as it's been stated multiple times, rates blow to start with. double that, and rates still suck, just a tiny bit less.

my emblem jumped rare -> unique in 8 bonus cubes
secondary rare -> unique in 2
shoulder rare -> unique in ~11

way better to cube bonus pot during miracle time. ranking up normal potential is supposedly being addressed so I'm waiting for that.

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Originally Posted by cubesandrya

As usual on this site you all remain oblivious.

...


Now, you can conclude miracle time was rigged PAST THE UNIQUE TIER.

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Right. Well, I thin...
Oh, hang on.

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Join Date
2014-03-08

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Ah, maybe you didn't get the southperry memo.
http://i.imgur.com/ITrRA.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekb0WpK1Elc

hey look a notice when ranking up unique->legendary!!!111 with red cubes!!!1

MIRACLE TIME RIGGED, GUYS.

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Originally Posted by cubesandrya

Because none of us, the majority of those who frequently partake in NX related activities, do not cube rare-epic items when unique potential scrolls are available.
This is why the miracle time was rigged. As most of you noticed if an item did tier up past unique no message was displayed.

You may have also noticed the message for bonus potential cubes was displayed when a item hit unique, not legendary.

Now, you can conclude miracle time was rigged PAST THE UNIQUE TIER. From rare-unique miracle time worked as intended, and this is what Nexon can say.
They did infact mislead most of us and most likely will not admit it, and it worked flawlessly.


In this thread, as well as the other thread, you're going to see a common factor of people somehow magically stopping at the unique tier and being content with that.
And that's fine for bonus potential, but not for normal potential. In previous miracle times it would take 5-10 super cubes AT MAX to go from unique>legendary.

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That's not true. My guildmate got his weapon to Legendary bonus potential and a notice was displayed. Red cubes also displayed the notice.

EDIT: Here's video proof of the notice being displayed for Bonus Pot. He gets two equips to legendary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r7ugYJk1xY

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Originally Posted by Lozmaster

Right. Well, I thin...
Oh, hang on.



Ah, maybe you didn't get the southperry memo.
http://i.imgur.com/ITrRA.png

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why did that stop getting posted

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Originally Posted by cubesandrya

Find a flaw in the post, not the join date of the user. This is not reddit you pleb.

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Ok, you don't have the slightest clue how statistics work. ERMERGERD, THEY RIGGED 1/3 POSSIBLE POTENTIAL TIER UPS. Or, you know, its just rarer to go unique -> legendary than rare->epic and epic->unique.That's a pretty big flaw in your prior post. Happy now?

Also, claiming to be a longtime member but not even knowing that it's pomegranates if something is stupid, not pineapples. Come on now, really?

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Originally Posted by cubesandrya

As usual on this site you all remain oblivious.
I'll shed some light on the situation, ban this account but leave the post up.
I would not point this out normally, but yes miracle time was rigged.

Not in the sense you all believe.

I noticed during the first 20 minutes my bonus potentialed items tiered up faster, even skipped from rare>unique.

I then tried regular potential through red/black cubes on unique items.
This is where everyone got suspicious, because after 100~ cubes on specific items, they did not tier up.

Now, I noticed Mazz posted a video saying the usual "OMG MIRACLE TIME NOT RIGGED".
What he failed to notice was that in that video the cuber did not even once tier up past unique.

Why would that happen?

Because none of us, the majority of those who frequently partake in NX related activities, do not cube rare-epic items when unique potential scrolls are available.
This is why the miracle time was rigged. As most of you noticed if an item did tier up past unique no message was displayed.

You may have also noticed the message for bonus potential cubes was displayed when a item hit unique, not legendary.

Now, you can conclude miracle time was rigged PAST THE UNIQUE TIER. From rare-unique miracle time worked as intended, and this is what Nexon can say.
They did infact mislead most of us and most likely will not admit it, and it worked flawlessly.


In this thread, as well as the other thread, you're going to see a common factor of people somehow magically stopping at the unique tier and being content with that.
And that's fine for bonus potential, but not for normal potential. In previous miracle times it would take 5-10 super cubes AT MAX to go from unique>legendary.

Do not blame it on the cubes. They may be pomegranatety, but you'll come to the realization that the only thing not happening would be people getting legendary items.

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Carved Slot cubes do give a notice when you hit legendary though:

Spoiler

http://new.tinygrab.com/a395c0272e91...1f7f48c139.png can't embed two images so here's the first

http://new.tinygrab.com/a395c0272e72...70416bf9c2.png

I feel more like it was working as intended until about 30 minutes in and then the rates plummeted for everything. Most people I've spoken to started off using bonus potential cubes and then moved on to regular potential (black cubes) afterwards.

Oh, ninja'd apparently, oops. /slow

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Originally Posted by Mazz

Carved Slot cubes do give a notice when you hit legendary though:

Spoiler

http://new.tinygrab.com/a395c0272e91...1f7f48c139.png can't embed two images so here's the first

http://new.tinygrab.com/a395c0272e72...70416bf9c2.png

I feel more like it was working as intended until about 30 minutes in and then the rates plummeted for everything. Most people I've spoken to started off using bonus potential cubes and then moved on to regular potential (black cubes) afterwards.

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I don't think the timing has anything you do with it. Since most people you talked to started out with bonus pot cubes and then used reg pot cubes afterwards, doesn't it make more sense to just say that the reg pot rank up rate for unique -> legendary is pretty low (as in lower than Super cube rate)? Plenty of people I know started out using regular pot cubes and the rate for unique -> legendary was bad throughout the event.

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Originally Posted by huehuehue

I don't think the timing has anything you do with it. Since most people you talked to started out with bonus pot cubes and then used reg pot cubes afterwards, doesn't it make more sense to just say that the reg pot rank up rate for unique -> legendary is pretty low (as in lower than Super cube rate)? Plenty of people I know started out using regular pot cubes and the rate for unique -> legendary was bad throughout the event.

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who knows? Marvel machine was all about timing...maybe the time you bought cubes/start cubing affects outcomes...it is Nexon after all.

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Originally Posted by mrtootsieroll

who knows? Marvel machine was all about timing...maybe the time you bought cubes/start cubing affects outcomes...it is Nexon after all.

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Well they have to be basing the random seed on something, time is as good a choice as any when the number doesn't need to be truly random. I would still imagine it being refreshed often enough that it wouldn't cause any significant issues though.

I got two double rank ups, with one of them from Rare to Unique and the other from Epic to Legendary.

I feel pretty good (I was probably extremely lucky), considering this pretty much my first time cubing seriously (though I only used 39 cubes, which is probably nothing compared other people :f3:).

I don't have the specific numbers right now, but I used a combination of (mostly) red and black cubes, 230k nx in total-- only 2 tier ups from unique to legendary.

EDIT: I decided to stop there as it wasn't going so well. I suppose I too will wait until the purported "revamp".

EDIT 2: I used 180 red cubes and 37 black cubes in total.

Well I definitely won't be buying anymore red or black cubes in hopes of ranking up, the % chance should not be that low plain and simple. I think most people can agree that right now, miracle time or not, the chances are way too low especially since this is supposed to be "a better maple" thing

@MysteryMask;

Well as you can see no one is really happy about having las vegas chances of an upgrade that the direction of the game is demanding you have

@MysteryMask;

Miracle time is supposed to be a time of amazing opportunies for people. But as you can see, not one, not two, but nearly EVERYONE is complaining. The amount of cubes amongst the population can speak for themselves. Please look into this and see if red/black cubes had a 2x chance of ranking up during miracle time.

Nexon : Well guys we messed up the cube rates and things are worse than they were, here are all your cubes back and we'll adjust the rates.

Day dreaming right?

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Originally Posted by fodjgngf

Nexon : Well guys we messed up the cube rates and things are worse than they were, here are all your cubes back and we'll adjust the rates.

Day dreaming right?

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Didn't that happen once when they forgot to turn on Miracle Time?

I guess time will tell, though I'm not expecting anything.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I haven't really bought Cubes seriously until this Miracle Time (and getting 39 cubes probably isn't serious either, but in comparison it is :f3:), but I double ranked up on my RA top and RA bottom from Rare to Unique with only about ~5 cubes, and from Epic to Legendary with about the same amount respectively. Those in BelloNova should've saw two Double Miracle Blessing notices from me around the beginning of Miracle Time.

I'm not sure if I'm just another outlier, but the rates seemed fine for me. Everyone else seems to be having issues, though, so...I'm inclined to believe I was just really lucky. :monocle:

Nexon: wait, you mean Double Miracle Time is not when it takes double the number of cubes to rank up?

I guess MysteryMask wasn't kidding when she said they didn't have Miracle Times often because they wanted to spare our wallets.

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Originally Posted by SaptaZapta

Nexon: wait, you mean Double Miracle Time is not when it takes double the number of cubes to rank up?

I guess MysteryMask wasn't kidding when she said they didn't have Miracle Times often because they wanted to spare our wallets.

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i laughed. I'm glad i have no need to cube ever again.

100 crafted cubes. (3) unique -> legendary tier ups during miracle time.
a LOT of dSE before getting up tier, didnt see dSI before stopping on 21%str

i also caved in & bought 3 packs of red+stamp. one tier up using red cubes.

Ive been told my results are "pretty good", "that's great", "better than me".... shrugs. still seems a lot worse than old cubes.
I think maybe double miracle needs to replace the normal rate; just without the two-up tier

0 * 0 = 0.
0 * 0.00001 = 0.00002.

When the rate is abysmally low, expecting "double rates" to actually mean anything is just plain foolish. Not saying that the rate is literally 0.00001%, but it's so damn low that multiplying it by 2 does nearly nothing. And that's the point. Saying, "Double your chances!" is way better than saying, "Add 0.00001% to your chances!" You expect "double" to mean a lot but it's proportional to what it's doubling. If it's doubling nothing you're not getting anything.

Yes, there are people who get lucky during Miracle Time, just like there are people who get lucky during Normal Time. It doesn't prove or disprove anything.

I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone. It's a marketing scheme and anyone who says they spent over 100k NX and got no better results than the last time they spent 100k NX got played.

i got a couple of rank ups with the miracle time blessing when i was cubing bonus pot on my weapons
but when i went to cubing my normal gear i wasted 150 red cubes with 0 rank ups and like 65 black cubes with 3 ranking up from uni to leg but no blessing
i dont know if i should feel satisfied i at least ranked up something or maybe consider that the normal pot rank ups were just normal rank up

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Originally Posted by Polantaris

0 * 0 = 0.
2 * 0.00001 = 0.00002.

When the rate is abysmally low, expecting "double rates" to actually mean anything is just plain foolish. Not saying that the rate is literally 0.00001%, but it's so damn low that multiplying it by 2 does nearly nothing. And that's the point. Saying, "Double your chances!" is way better than saying, "Add 0.00001% to your chances!" You expect "double" to mean a lot but it's proportional to what it's doubling. If it's doubling nothing you're not getting anything.

Yes, there are people who get lucky during Miracle Time, just like there are people who get lucky during Normal Time. It doesn't prove or disprove anything.

I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone. It's a marketing scheme and anyone who says they spent over 100k NX and got no better results than the last time they spent 100k NX got played.

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Maybe there is more to this than just a marketing scheme.
I recall a lot of people in past threads saying how good black cubes were, but now it seems they are worse during supposed 2x miracle event than super cubes used to be without an event. Perhaps for the first month after they were introduced black cubes did have better 'introductory' rates, but sometime before this event the rates were cut by a factor of 4, so that even with the miracle event (assuming it even worked on black cubes) they still had worse rates than initially. There have been many times in the past when drop rates were lowered or something was 'accidently' broken a month or two after some new boss was introduced. This sounds like a similar trick.

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Originally Posted by Polantaris

I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone.

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It's a surprise because people remember previous Miracle Times as being really good.
People wouldn't have been begging for Miracle Time if they remembered them as a scam.
Whether it's because the old cubes were better, or because previous Miracle Times were more than 2x regular upgrade probability, I don't know. But they were good. This new one was crap.

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Originally Posted by MissingLink

Maybe there is more to this than just a marketing scheme.
I recall a lot of people in past threads saying how good black cubes were, but now it seems they are worse during supposed 2x miracle event than super cubes used to be without an event. Perhaps for the first month after they were introduced black cubes did have better 'introductory' rates, but sometime before this event the rates were cut by a factor of 4, so that even with the miracle event (assuming it even worked on black cubes) they still had worse rates than initially. There have been many times in the past when drop rates were lowered or something was 'accidently' broken a month or two after some new boss was introduced. This sounds like a similar trick.

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It's possible they fu'cked up during a patch and overall ruined the the rates, I will agree. And it's also possible that they screwed up the event itself and forgot to activate it. Since that's happened before I won't say that it's impossible, it's clearly not.

However neither of these things are provable unless Nexon says it themselves, which they won't unless they intend to give compensation. Anything before that happens is speculation with no hard evidence. Also, neither of these are indicative of an intentional "rigging", which is what this thread was started as a claim towards.

It can easily be that everyone was just MASSIVELY unlucky. There's no requirements in the laws of luck that say that people have to be lucky. There are days where the casino doesn't pay out at all and days when it pays out way too much. And when we're talking about rates that are as low as they are, this is a distinct possibility.

The biggest reason I doubt it's actually rigged, and not just stupidity (whether on the part of Nexon or the users remains to be determined, if it ever will be) is because Nexon cannot afford the bad PR that would come with getting outed for doing something like that. I know they're money hungry, but they're not demented.

I don't know man... I have some friends..... who are very lucky.... got 3-4 legendary in 10-20 cubes... o.0 then again... I also had some friends who use over 300 cubes didn't get a single legendarys.....

I guess it just pure luck

the odd isn't in your flavor ...

do you ever wonder why casino never ran out of money and always end up making more than it lose?

cuz the odd of their flavor in a long run is always on them..

cube rate is 2% ... double the rate is 4 % ... ok you got 4% out of 100 % chance to hit leg... ofc you u would lose more than you think
that how luck work

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Originally Posted by Question

I don't know man... I have some friends..... who are very lucky.... got 3-4 legendary in 10-20 cubes... o.0 then again... I also had some friends who use over 300 cubes didn't get a single legendarys.....

I guess it just pure luck

the odd isn't in your flavor ...

do you ever wonder why casino never ran out of money and always end up making more than it lose?

cuz the odd of their flavor in a long run is always on them..

cube rate is 2% ... double the rate is 4 % ... ok you got 4% out of 100 % chance to hit leg... ofc you u would lose more than you think
that how luck work

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And as said by Sapta if that was what it was last time no one would have invested this time. So at this point it isn't about luck, it's about false advertising since the results from this and the previous event are worlds apart.

Just because a really bad rate became just bad with 2x event, doesn't mean it is rigged. I personally thought that bonus cubes during miracle time was very good.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

And as said by Sapta if that was what it was last time no one would have invested this time. So at this point it isn't about luck, it's about false advertising since the results from this and the previous event are worlds apart.

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not really... it just that most ppl are unlucky on this miracle time.... then can you explain why some people in this miracle time got so many legendry's in a few cubes?

it just happen that last miracle cube player was a bit more lucky...

guy cubes rate is not even 10% ... even on double miracle time base is probably 4% highest

ok let say you trying to land for 10-12 star ok the odd of passing them is 10% chance... some ppl got lucky and hit in 10-20 try or less other ppl got unlucky and can take them 20-50 time to pass one slot

my friend had fail 59 clean slate 10% in a row..... and that is 10% ok... now if cube is 4% and that is double miracle time rate .... and I expect you can fail atleast 100+ in a row is possible cuz it 4%

it just luck man... you cant always get best result in miracle time other wise nexon would lose money that how rate of probability work

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Originally Posted by qtpie

I personally thought that bonus cubes during miracle time was very good.

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I think nobody disagrees with that.
And if they'd announced that it was solely a bonus cube event, people would have invested only in Carved cubes and been happy with their results.
(They'd still peach and beg for a regular potential event, of course, but at least they wouldn't complain about being "scammed").

If the definition of rigged is that the rates were abysmal then we can all agree.
I think the biggest problem is that compared to other miracle times in the past this was a horrible experience for a majority.
The expectation was to have an experience similar to previous miracle times and regardless of some people's luck the majority of players found the event to be quite lacking.

The question is why was it different shortly after the introduction of newer cubes that were supposed to be better (at least I thought they were supposed to be)? The fact that so many people are crying out means something, but whether nexon will address this, imo would require a large outcry that would be impossible to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Jazeon

If the definition of rigged is that the rates were abysmal then we can all agree.
I think the biggest problem is that compared to other miracle times in the past this was a horrible experience for a majority.
The expectation was to have an experience similar to previous miracle times and regardless of some people's luck the majority of players found the event to be quite lacking.

The question is why was it different shortly after the introduction of newer cubes that were supposed to be better (at least I thought they were supposed to be)? The fact that so many people are crying out means something, but whether nexon will address this, imo would require a large outcry that would be impossible to ignore.

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you cant expect similar run ..... ok I go casino and gamble I won 1,000$ let say and the odd was 1/100 chance I hit the lucky run after 10 run I got lucky cool..


now I wanna go casino again..... I wanna try another 10 run do you think I would have chance to win that same amount again in 10 run? no...... it unlikely...

you can... but sadly the result wont be similar run... and if you try again you probably still win nothing again... and again

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Originally Posted by Question

not really... it just that most ppl are unlucky on this miracle time.... then can you explain why some people in this miracle time got so many legendry's in a few cubes?

it just happen that last miracle cube player was a bit more lucky...

guy cubes rate is not even 10% ... even on double miracle time base is probably 4% highest

ok let say you trying to land for 10-12 star ok the odd of passing them is 10% chance... some ppl got lucky and hit in 10-20 try or less other ppl got unlucky and can take them 20-50 time to pass one slot

my friend had fail 59 clean slate 10% in a row..... and that is 10% ok... now if cube is 4% and that is double miracle time rate .... and I expect you can fail atleast 100+ in a row is possible cuz it 4%

it just luck man... you can always get best result in miracle time other wise nexon would lose money that how rate of probability work

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When you have the majority complaining and the minority trying to justify with "stories" then it's clear what the proportions are. The rates were much higher last miracle time, that much is clear, which is why this one was hyped up, because we requested a repeat of the event for those results, which were majority positive.

You're wrong, per usual.

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Originally Posted by Question

you cant expect similar run ..... ok I go casino and gamble I won 1,000$ let say and the odd was 1/100 chance I hit the lucky run after 10 run I got lucky cool..


now I wanna go casino again..... I wanna try another 10 run do you think I would have chance to win that same amount again in 10 run? no...... it unlikely...

you can... but sadly the result wont be similar run... and if you try again you probably still win nothing again... and again

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So basically you are saying that the majority was just "unlucky" this time around. It is plausible and it gives nexon enough ammo to provide reasonable doubt, although this will set a new standard concerning miracle time because iirc all previous events like this had generally good results hence why people looked forward to it.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

When you have the majority complaining and the minority trying to justify with "stories" then it's clear what the proportions are. The rates were much higher last miracle time, that much is clear, which is why this one was hyped up, because we requested a repeat of the event for those results, which were majority positive.

You're wrong, per usual.

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super cube rate was higher yea ... I can say that I try red cube and it was horrible... but red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes... so I do expect the rate for them to be 1/2 the rate of super cubes and it most likely is true

if red cube rate was double on miracle it only make them the same rate as super miracle cube rate w/o the 2x..


Old cubes >>

Super cube Rate >>> Rate to epic 10%
Super cube Rate >>> epic to unique 5%
Super cube Rate >>> unique to legendary 2%

then red cube should be half of that rate

red cube >> rare to epic 5%
red cube >> epic to unique 2%
red cube >> unique to legendary 1%

if double miracle time make rate is 2x more ... than red cubes is just 2% this is why.... this miracle time isn't that great cuz it only 2% that is like having a super cube w/o 2x miracle

but then again red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes...

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Originally Posted by Jazeon

So basically you are saying that the majority was just "unlucky" this time around. It is plausible and it gives nexon enough ammo to provide reasonable doubt, although this will set a new standard concerning miracle time because iirc all previous events like this had generally good results hence why people looked forward to it.

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yes majority is the right answer... go throw a dice you have 1/100 chance to legendary .... and 100,000 throw the die... how many ppl would hit 1/100? ... probably only 1% will hit that number

The difference to the casino example is that casino payouts are real money, which the casino does not have an infinite supply of. If they paid out more than they earned, they'd go out of business.

However, cubing payout is just bits of data, which cost Nexon nothing to generate. They could give everyone good results and not lose a thing. There might be concerns about in-game balance, and such, but that's a whole different topic.

As it is, by giving people poor results, they discouraged people from buying cubes. I'm sure that the total cubes used (and bought!) on the second Miracle Time fell far below expectations, after the midnight session warned people off. That's not how you run an event that's supposed to make people crash the Cash Shop in their lust for more cubes. (Would have been typical Nexon sneakiness to make the midnight session give good results but the afternoon one fail, which causes me to think this "rigging" or "scam" is more stupidity than malice).

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Originally Posted by SaptaZapta

I think nobody disagrees with that.
And if they'd announced that it was solely a bonus cube event, people would have invested only in Carved cubes and been happy with their results.
(They'd still peach and beg for a regular potential event, of course, but at least they wouldn't complain about being "scammed").

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Yeah, I was just supporting my claim that miracle time itself wasn't rigged. I say the new cubes themselves are the problem. BRING BACK THE SUPER CUBES!!! :f5: Moreover, this was a very rare event because I never got the chance to use bonus cubes during miracle time because they never coincided and it was a nice experience :o

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Originally Posted by Question

super cube rate was higher yea ... I can say that I try red cube and it was horrible... but red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes... so I do expect the rate for them to be 1/2 the rate of super cubes and it most likely is true

if red cube rate was double on miracle it only make them the same rate as super miracle cube rate w/o the 2x..


Old cubes >>

Super cube Rate >>> Rate to epic 10%
Super cube Rate >>> epic to unique 5%
Super cube Rate >>> unique to legendary 2%

then red cube should be half of that rate

red cube >> rare to epic 5%
red cube >> epic to unique 2%
red cube >> unique to legendary 1%

if double miracle time make rate is 2x more ... than red cubes is just 2% this is why.... this miracle time isn't that great cuz it only 2% that is like having a super cube w/o 2x miracle

but then again red cubes is almost 2x cheaper than super cubes...



yes majority is the right answer... go throw a dice you have 1/100 chance to legendary .... and 100,000 throw the die... how many ppl would hit 1/100? ... probably only 1% will hit that number

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So you are saying you don't think nexon shouldn't compensate that low base to begin with? Or better yet, why do they even exist? Frankly I don't know the variants of cubes or their purpose because it's beyond ridiculous you have like 8 inferior options to the super miracle cubes.

Either way, it is not a "unlucky" issue, it's a facade that's only success was based on the reputation of the previously hosted events.

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Originally Posted by SaptaZapta

The difference to the casino example is that casino payouts are real money, which the casino does not have an infinite supply of. If they paid out more than they earned, they'd go out of business.

However, cubing payout is just bits of data, which cost Nexon nothing to generate. They could give everyone good results and not lose a thing. There might be concerns about in-game balance, and such, but that's a whole different topic.

As it is, by giving people poor results, they discouraged people from buying cubes. I'm sure that the total cubes used (and bought!) on the second Miracle Time fell far below expectations, after the midnight session warned people off. That's not how you run an event that's supposed to make people crash the Cash Shop in their lust for more cubes. (Would have been typical Nexon sneakiness to make the midnight session work but the afternoon one fail, which causes me to think this "rigging" or "scam" is more stupidity than malice).

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I still say it unlucky run... it just like casino... the rate is just so low....

you have 1/100 chance to hit legendary... if 100,000 people throw a dice .... or cubes.... how many ppl do you think will get legendary? .....

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

So you are saying you don't think nexon shouldn't compensate that low base to begin with? Or better yet, why do they even exist? Frankly I don't know the variants of cubes or their purpose because it's beyond ridiculous you have like 8 inferior options to the super miracle cubes.

Either way, it is not a "unlucky" issue, it's a facade that's only success was based on the reputation of the previously hosted events.

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if 5 player got 15 star in 10 try today from 14 star tyrant.... do you believe that same 5 player can get that same result.... again? tomorrow?

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Originally Posted by Question

I still say it unlucky run... it just like casino... the rate is just so low....

you have 1/100 chance to hit legendary... if 100,000 people throw a dice .... or cubes.... how many ppl do you think will get legendary? .....

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You keep making this comparison to a casino but I don't know of a casino that offers 2x rates, and have past events showing people majority of winning on certain days. Your context isn't applicable.

If you want to continue this frame of mind, why the f`uck are you playing a casino under a facade of being a kids game, with no payout outside of the game, yet just as costly?

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Originally Posted by SaptaZapta

It's a surprise because people remember previous Miracle Times as being really good.
People wouldn't have been begging for Miracle Time if they remembered them as a scam.
Whether it's because the old cubes were better, or because previous Miracle Times were more than 2x regular upgrade probability, I don't know. But they were good. This new one was crap.

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I didn't mean that it shouldn't be a surprise that the event was bad, but that they chose their words wisely to make it sound like it would be more amazing than it was.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

You keep making this comparison to a casino but I don't know of a casino that offers 2x rates, and have past events showing people majority of winning on certain days. Your context isn't applicable.

If you want to continue this frame of mind, why the f`uck are you playing a casino under a facade of being a kids game, with no payout outside of the game, yet just as costly?

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if I throw a coins... which is 50/50 does it mean I always get 50% chance getting a head? .... no sadly I can get all tail... that how probability work...

cube is similar to casino... but you don't win anything it just a game of casino... if nexon wear to give out money to you guy for getting legendary then it is casino style but it not exact the same thing but it still similar to casino...

ANYTHING THAT HAS PROBABLITY AND THAT COST MONEY IS IT LIKE CASINO

if I get a tyrant to 15 star from 10 star in 10 try .... does that mean my next tyrant should be same result?

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Originally Posted by Question

if I throw a coins... which is 50/50 does it mean I always get 50% chance getting a head? .... no sadly I can get all tail... that how probability work...

cube is similar to casino... but you don't win anything it just a game of casino... if nexon wear to give out money to you guy for getting legendary then it is casino style but it not exact the same thing but it still similar to casino...

ANYTHING THAT HAS PROBABLITY AND THAT COST MONEY IS IT LIKE CASINO

if I get a tyrant to 15 star from 10 star in 10 try .... does that mean my next tyrant should be same result?

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His point was that a casino don't offer 2x rates, which nexon does by having the miracle time event

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Originally Posted by Simcaz

His point was that a casino don't offer 2x rates, which nexon does by having the miracle time event

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they can offer 2x but not in the same ... way if you place your bet on one spot ur rate is one x but if you bet more than one spot your rate is double chance the wining but in the end casino still win more

increasing rate by 2x of a small % doesn't really make anything diff much...

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Originally Posted by Question

I
if 5 player got 15 star in 10 try today from 14 star tyrant.... do you believe that same 5 player can get that same result.... again? tomorrow?

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I expect the rates to be proportionally the same as the previous miracle time, which did not have a fraction of people complaining as we do now. Again your example is out of context and extremely exaggerated.

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Originally Posted by Question

if I throw a coins... which is 50/50 does it mean I always get 50% chance getting a head? .... no sadly I can get all tail... that how probability work...

cube is similar to casino... but you don't win anything it just a game of casino... if nexon wear to give out money to you guy for getting legendary then it is casino style but it not exact the same thing but it still similar to casino...

ANYTHING THAT HAS PROBABLITY AND THAT COST MONEY IS IT LIKE CASINO

if I get a tyrant to 15 star from 10 star in 10 try .... does that mean my next tyrant should be same result?

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Honest question, are you reading anything I"m saying? Any argument of probability is worthless here. It has no relevance. None, zilch, everything you have posted currently is irrelevant, all of your examples are exaggerated extremes, and you're trying to justify a companies actions because of your addiction.

The outcry from this miracle time and the previous one are drastically different. So you have two ways to go about this;

1) The previous miracle time, everyone was lucky, this miracle time, everyone was unlucky. Which is proportionally almost impossible, without a specific factor being drastically changed. Even by your own admittance, if every player flipped a coin and all of them got heads(good results), then a year later, the same con artist comes to you again saying it's a repeat of said event, where you flip the coin again, and majority gets tails, that's ridiculous.

2) Continue to blame the base cube rates which is essentially a sh`itty version of the previous miracle time with essentially false advertising. They used a good reputation to build on, then crushed it with a lot of players disappointed.

There is no legitimate argument in "well it works like a casino, so results vary", when it's supposedly supposed to boost results, and did not do so in a method that was remotely noticeable. So pick your poison already and hammer it down.

maybe we can all reveal this issue by having someone use enough cubes (i say 2000 is good enough) to figure out the probability of tiering up using binomial distribution. Then we can see how greatly miracle time affects normal cubes.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

I expect the rates to be proportionally the same as the previous miracle time, which did not have a fraction of people complaining as we do now. Again your example is out of context and extremely exaggerated.




Honest question, are you reading anything I"m saying? Any argument of probability is worthless here. It has no relevance. None, zilch, everything you have posted currently is irrelevant, all of your examples are exaggerated extremes, and you're trying to justify a companies actions because of your addiction.

The outcry from this miracle time and the previous one are drastically different. So you have two ways to go about this;

1) The previous miracle time, everyone was lucky, this miracle time, everyone was unlucky. Which is proportionally almost impossible, without a specific factor being drastically changed. Even by your own admittance, if every player flipped a coin and all of them got heads(good results), then a year later, the same con artist comes to you again saying it's a repeat of said event, where you flip the coin again, and majority gets tails, that's ridiculous.

2) Continue to blame the base cube rates which is essentially a sh`itty version of the previous miracle time with essentially false advertising. They used a good reputation to build on, then crushed it with a lot of players disappointed.

There is no legitimate argument in "well it works like a casino, so results vary", when it's supposedly supposed to boost results, and did not do so in a method that was remotely noticeable. So pick your poison already and hammer it down.

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I know y last miracle time is better....

Super cube rate is 4% last miracle time.... ofc most ppl would have better getting legendary...

this time red cube miracle time is 2% ofc I expect this run to be horrible

alright im done chating here... in my mind you can say what you want I still believe it just a unlucky run... and again I expect the next miracle time will be the same result as today unless nexon increase the rate of the cubes

casinos are required by nevada gaming commission to pay out (up to ~90) for "Slot Machines" as example of returns. the minimum profit the house gets each day of operation, per slot machine, is at least 10% of the money put in.

then you get into the fine print of the "rigged" if a machine turns "cold" (un-used for 4mins) the casino can reset the payout.

Its actually pretty interesting reading into gambling laws/requirements; since maple's down.... google a link ^_^

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Originally Posted by Question

I know y last miracle time is better....

Super cube rate is 4% last miracle time.... ofc most ppl would have better getting legendary...

this time red cube miracle time is 2% ofc I expect this run to be horrible

alright im done chating here... in my mind you can say what you want I still believe it just a unlucky run... and again I expect the next miracle time will be the same result as today unless nexon increase the rate of the cubes

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You went with point 2 then claim its based on unlucky circumstances. That's illogical

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Originally Posted by qtpie

maybe we can all reveal this issue by having someone use enough cubes (i say 2000 is good enough) to figure out the probability of tiering up using binomial distribution. Then we can see how greatly miracle time affects normal cubes.

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good idea!
gift me the cubes and I'll do the math :f2:

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

You went with point 2 then claim its based on unlucky circumstances. That's illogical

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say what you want... but in my mind anything that has probability in it... to me it just a unlucky run...

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Originally Posted by Question

say what you want... but in my mind anything that has probability in it... to me it just a unlucky run...

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Anything that has probability huh. When you use the adjective "unlucky" it means the person failed even though the probability was even or in their favor. When the probability is naturally stacked against you, it's not "unlucky" it's "expected". However the miracle time was "expected", to be in your favor, when the probability of just the responses, presumes that this was a fallacy. Unlike the previous miracle time which was in fact in your favor. And as you have elaborated the cubes base rate made it unfavorable odds, in an event that in the past has altered the rates to give us favorable odds.

So the expectation was an event to give us cubing results in our favor, yet as you and so many people pointed out, they took an event with that reputation and used cubes that were not in our favor. So the word "unlucky" is the completely wrong adjective to even use to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Marksman Bryan

good idea!
gift me the cubes and I'll do the math :f2:

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I too would like to be part of this experiment if someone will supply the cubes :wink:.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

When you have the majority complaining and the minority trying to justify with "stories" then it's clear what the proportions are.

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A vocal minority are always going to seem like a much bigger deal than they really are. The "minority trying to justify with "stories"" are a small number of people, because why would they b ranting on forums about it? they got what they wanted/expected out of it.

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Originally Posted by Lozmaster

A vocal minority are always going to seem like a much bigger deal than they really are. The "minority trying to justify with "stories"" are a small number of people, because why would they b ranting on forums about it? they got what they wanted/expected out of it.

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In most cases this is true, but in a game like maplestory, when something goes wrong, people don't tend to agree with whiners, they normally try to correct them.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

In most cases this is true, but in a game like maplestory, when something goes wrong, people don't tend to agree with whiners, they normally try to correct them.

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Well, I looked back at the last few miracle time threads and they're mostly complaining about rates too (if they even had more than 10 posts).

Also, found this and it needs reposting.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...85677429_n.jpg

People will complain about anything if they don't get exactly what they want handed to them on a silver platter.

I would complain about rates for previous miracle times -- 1-2 rank ups in 50~75 cubes. The difference is that this time, for most people, it's 0 rank ups for 100+ cubes that we were told were "better"
Although it was quite obvious with results pre-miracle time that the new cubes were not better for ranking up.

I'm just curious, can someone point me to where it was stated that the Red and Black Cubes were better for ranking up? I don't remember reading that, not that it doesn't exist, maybe just something I missed.

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Originally Posted by Lozmaster

A vocal minority are always going to seem like a much bigger deal than they really are. The "minority trying to justify with "stories"" are a small number of people, because why would they b ranting on forums about it? they got what they wanted/expected out of it.

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From what I've seen, the majority did have pretty bad luck during this event compared to previous events. That's probably due to Red and Black cubes having an inherently low rank up rate instead of any "rigging" done by Nexon. Most people just haven't used enough of the new cubes to compare the normal rank up rate with the Miracle time rate and had very high hopes for Miracle time based on past experience.

All I feel like needs to be added is: yes, Super Cubes ranked up a lot more often than Black Cubes do.

no, I'm not going to buy any black cubes for the purpose of ranking up, even during miracle time.

It's up to nexon what to do with the information I guess.

What I find interesting about this whole cubing thing is the Mabinogi version of cubing, Reforging, has a very high chance of ranking up when using the "premium" reforges alone. I went from lowest tier to best tier in 5 tries yesterday on my bow. It also re-leveled about 3 additional times using the "normal" reforges while trying to get a decent attribute set out of it. I wonder if they're more giving in Mabi since our equipment decays endlessly. It still seems odd, how very different the results are.

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Originally Posted by Eos

What I find interesting about this whole cubing thing is the Mabinogi version of cubing, Reforging, has a very high chance of ranking up when using the "premium" reforges alone. I went from lowest tier to best tier in 5 tries yesterday on my bow. It also re-leveled about 3 additional times using the "normal" reforges while trying to get a decent attribute set out of it. I wonder if they're more giving in Mabi since our equipment decays endlessly. It still seems odd, how very different the results are.

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However, it took me 120 on one piece and 150 on another piece from the lowest to the highest tier.

Although on the converse of that, Some have taken me under 20.


What does this tell you? RNG sucks.

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Originally Posted by Aubog007

However, it took me 120 on one piece and 150 on another piece from the lowest to the highest tier.

Although on the converse of that, Some have taken me under 20.


What does this tell you? RNG sucks.

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Were those using Fine or Credne, cause Credne's never taken me more than 10, rarely more than 5 :f6:

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Originally Posted by Eos

Were those using Fine or Credne, cause Credne's never taken me more than 10, rarely more than 5 :f6:

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Fines, but I have used a lot of Credhnes. Especially from that wonderful event.
I just remember in KR test, they sell Credhnes and Fines, or rather they did in the NPC shops and players did tests on them.

If you guys are so unhappy with the cubing rates and really want to see an improvement, I think I have an idea. It may seem absolutely ludicrous, but hear me out.

Stop buying so many cubes -> Nexon loses profit -> Nexon changes their strategy to make money.

I know, I know. I just blew minds. Unfortunately this will likely change nothing. If Nexon doesn't take it upon themselves to improve the rates, the overwhelming majority will continue to buy tons of cubes at the next sale or miracle time, just continuing the cycle of wallet rape.

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Originally Posted by Aubog007

Fines, but I have used a lot of Credhnes. Especially from that wonderful event.

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That sounds more believable, for fines my best rate is 1 in 10 to level up, and often more like 1 in 30.

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Originally Posted by CrazyForDex

Stop buying so many cubes -> Nexon loses profit -> Nexon changes their strategy to make money.

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Boycotting as a strategy for change doesn't work unless the target company is both aware of the boycott even happening, and why it's happening. In absence of that all they're going to see is cubes aren't wanted in this market and move on to some other gimmick. They're not going to spontaneously fix the perceived problems or reduce the prices of something that they already consider game breaking enough to cap.

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Originally Posted by Eos

Boycotting as a strategy for change doesn't work unless the target company is both aware of the boycott even happening, and why it's happening. In absence of that all they're going to see is cubes aren't wanted in this market and move on to some other gimmick. They're not going to spontaneously fix the perceived problems or reduce the prices of something that they already consider game breaking enough to cap.

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I agree it would not work if there isn't awareness of what is pissing off the community. If the volunteers that frequent MS forums such as this and basil and get a feel that the community is mad about the low rates and then Nexon sees a drop in profits, specifically cubes, I think that could result in some change. Of course this is very optimistic thinking and not exactly realistic, but it's better than just sitting here and complaining before going out and giving them more money. Nexon just sees that as "oh we are doing something right because our profits are increasing" and then nothing changes.

http://puu.sh/7qQci.png

Yeah.. RNG guys, you just had some bad luck.

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Originally Posted by fodjgngf

http://puu.sh/7qQci.png

Yeah.. RNG guys, you just had some bad luck.

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Does she even know what she's talking about?
This is the first Miracle Time with new cubes (Red, Black, Master, Meister). Their rates are definitely not the same as the old cubes (which old cubes?).
Maybe she means Miracle Time was and still is 2x rank-up rate. But the base rate that is being doubled can't be the same.

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Originally Posted by SaptaZapta

Does she even know what she's talking about?
This is the first Miracle Time with new cubes (Red, Black, Master, Meister). Their rates are definitely not the same as the old cubes (which old cubes?).
Maybe she means Miracle Time was and still is 2x rank-up rate. But the base rate that is being doubled can't be the same.

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Pretty sure they just have to add the old rate to the new cubes... It isn't big math lol.....

For those crying about being unlucky my friend did 100 bonus pot cubes and it went wrong, he just said oh well hasn't once said nexon screwed me.

I wish we had more players like those. then again he sells RA / tyrant capes lol

ppl never learn lol.. dont spend money on this game as you will get screwed over and over again (nexon'd)

All you have to do is believe.