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AD carry + Support Synergy
Going to turn all of this information later into a chart that shows which AD carry + support work best together, which works okay together, which don't work too well together. Some of it I already know while some of it I don't have a clue on. Here are some examples of what I'm looking for
Leona
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Works best with: Corki, graves
Works okay with:
Doesn't work too well with:
Alistar
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Works best with: Vayne, tristana
Works okay with:
Doesn't work too well with:
Soraka
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Works best with: Sivir, ashe
Works okay with:
Doesn't work too well with
And yea. Unconventional supports or AD carry or other bot lane combinations will be added as well. For example, supports that aren't "true supports" and usually switch to a different build later e.g. nidalee, gangplank, malphite
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Nunu support, works fine with champs that rely on dps (Like vayne/ashe i think). Also, dem slowww.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Soraka/Ashe isn't "exceptional" synergy, it's just that Soraka's the best burst sustain support available - if you want synergy with Soraka you pair her with mana-hungry champions generally. Soraka/Kog is a lane I run from time to time, Soraka/Ezreal is pretty good, and @Purplefire44 and I run Soraka/Varus with great success. Soraka/Graves is probably one of the most difficult lanes to burst down. Taric/Graves doesn't take much damage because of Shatter (you'll notice Graves works with a lot of things, this isn't a co-incidence). Vayne/Taric and Vayne/Alistar are two good "stun" lanes if the support disables near a wall. Nunu/Kog is a good lane because it means more AAs with BAB on. I guess you COULD do Nunu/Ashe, but I wouldn't recommend. When it comes to Janna I'm impartial to Janna/Ashe, I'm not too well-versed with Janna but she also works very much like Soraka since she's the best support for avoiding damage being done to the carry which is quite important. With Tristana I would use poke supports like Lulu and Sona. The only lane I'm really comfortable with running as Leona is Leona/Corki but that's a me thing. And as always, Spellsy does a better job than I when it comes to explaining good bot lane synergies.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
SORAKA INSTANTLY SYNERGIZES WITH EVERY RANGED AD
TRUFACT
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FenixR
Nunu support, works fine with champs that rely on dps (Like vayne/ashe i think). Also, dem slowww.
Nunu works well with champs that lack an AS steroid and/or any way to stick to champs (Ashe is the first, Vayne is the second). Works poorly with Ezreal
Soraka support works well with Ezreal since he's so mana-hungry.
Malph works well with champs without any way to stick to champs and is great at shutting down champs that rely on attack speed. Bad at babying champs like Vayne and Ezreal though.
Orianna is a good blitz counter. So she'd logically be good with champs that are bad against blitz.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
I don't see how Orianna is a Blitz counter.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Soraka is ideal for passive gameplay.
Blitzcrank, Leona for more aggressive gameplay.
Taric for a middle-of-the road between aggressive and passive gameplay.
More or less. There are exceptions, such as Ezreal with Soraka should be more aggressive because Soraka can give the mana back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
I don't see how Orianna is a Blitz counter.
I can only see it if you think about just dropping your Ball in a brush so that there's not that "'wher's Blitzcrank?' -grabbed- 'ther he is'" factor.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
I don't see how Orianna is a Blitz counter.
Dem ball i guess? stick the ball to the one being pulled and she can combo from there i guess.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jamesie
I can only see it if you think about just dropping your Ball in a brush so that there's not that "'wher's Blitzcrank?' -grabbed- 'ther he is'" factor.
Yup. Free perma-ward with your ball. Plus, if your carry gets grabbed the shield gets there faster which can actually mean a lot.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raul
Yup. Free perma-ward with your ball. Plus, if your carry gets grabbed the shield gets there faster which can actually mean a lot.
I would then say it's more of another layer of security rather than a counter.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jamesie
I would then say it's more of another layer of security rather than a counter.
Something that at least slightly counters blitz's grabs for free (which nothing else does besides maybe a Yorick support and those ghouls aren't free) counts as a counter to me. Free way to give vision of the bush, shield the carry, and slow blitz and the enemy carry which will effectively nullify his Overdrive (Dissonance is more at every rank).
Please tell me what is a counter to him if Orianna isn't?
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raul
Something that at least slightly counters blitz's grabs for free (which nothing else does besides maybe a Yorick support and those ghouls aren't free) counts as a counter to me. Free way to give vision of the bush, shield the carry, and slow blitz and the enemy carry which will effectively nullify his Overdrive (Dissonance is more at every rank).
Please tell me what is a counter to him if Orianna isn't?
Sight in general? Orianna can just work since she has a "free" ward that doubles as a shield. Otherwise dropping a ward in a brush works just as well.
EDIT: I get what you're saying, but it's just sight in general that diminishes Blitz's value. A Janna with sight wards could do the same thing. :/
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jamesie
Sight in general? Orianna can just work since she has a "free" ward that doubles as a shield. Otherwise dropping a ward in a brush works just as well.
EDIT: I get what you're saying, but it's just sight in general that diminishes Blitz's value. A Janna with sight wards could do the same thing. :/
Yes but it's free which lets you either ward other places or maintain your wards for longer, and you can use it to shield/slow.
OR YOU COULD PUT EVE IN THERE!
actually pre-revamp support eve is the best counter to blitz. she's a ward and she can just stand between blitz and her carry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
Two sight wards?
gold that the gold-starved support could be using on other things.
also the wards don't slow and shield.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raul
Yes but it's free which lets you either ward other places or maintain your wards for longer, and you can use it to shield/slow.
gold that the gold-starved support could be using on other things.
also the wards don't slow and shield.
Like more wards? I see what you mean, but it's not like Orianna is the only way to obtain sight in a brush. I mean, I suppose she would be a solid "counter" to Blitz in like lower ELO (and Normal draft pick) where the players would benefit from having a ward with that utility, but I feel like for high elo/"pro" play they would be able to just use wards and be fine.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raul
gold that the gold-starved support could be using on other things.
This pretty much invalidates any point you can make about supports. You don't get them at all.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
This pretty much invalidates any point you can make about supports. You don't get them at all.
Supports are much harder up for gold than the solo lanes and they have no quick way to make it early game since their gold gain is based strictly off time. And yeah, a double GP10 build with avarice quints and seals and the GP10 mastery will get you to 30.25 GP10. A minion wave is worth at least 117 gold depending on if there is a siege minion and what point in the game it is, and comes every 30 seconds. 90.75 gold every 30 seconds for the support, 156 gold per wave at the minimum with no missed CS for a carry. Less than 60% of a solo lane's gold stream if somehow you manage to get 2 GP10 items before 5 minutes and it goes downhill from there.
Also if you're meaning that the support is going to have to get wards anyhow, I'd suggest you read what I said to Jamesie in that post. If you have a free ward with the ball that's one more place you don't have to ward and one more ward every 3 minutes to use on tribush or the river.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
pineappleing taric and graves, manly support with manly ad carry, amiright
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Where the hell is that support gif? I can't find it.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raul
Supports are much harder up for gold than the solo lanes and they have no quick way to make it early game since their gold gain is based strictly off time. And yeah, a double GP10 build with avarice quints and seals and the GP10 mastery will get you to 30.25 GP10. A minion wave is worth at least 117 gold depending on if there is a siege minion and what point in the game it is, and comes every 30 seconds. 90.75 gold every 30 seconds for the support, 156 gold per wave at the minimum with no missed CS for a carry. Less than 60% of a solo lane's gold stream if somehow you manage to get 2 GP10 items before 5 minutes and it goes downhill from there.
Also if you're meaning that the support is going to have to get wards anyhow, I'd suggest you read what I said to Jamesie in that post. If you have a free ward with the ball that's one more place you don't have to ward and one more ward every 3 minutes to use on tribush or the river.
Yes, but to save 75 gold every three minutes you give up many of the things that make a support good. If you leave the ball there you can't use the haste/slow as effectively. You have no CC. A shield is not the only thing that makes a support good.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
I main support and I don't see orianna as a typical support. She's really low on usefulness as one. Keep her at AP mid where she belongs.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Doesn't a website have information similar to this? I know for sure that it displays win rate percentages, but it doesn't explain why it works.
Karma has an absurdly high win rate in lane last I saw this stuff. That does not necessarily mean she's viable though, since it could be a bunch of low elo players supplying those stats.
EDIT: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...m-lane-synergy
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Karma has an absurdly high win rate because there are no bad Karma players, they're either really good or they don't play her at all. Also, I'm not sure what the criteria is for being listed there so some of them might be mid Karmas.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
I'd say Soraka goes with MF and Vayne.
MF doesn't have the cheapest mana costs as well as gets harrassed easier by having no escape.
Vayne just because she could use the sustain to actually get further into the game.
Cait + Sona is a good poke lane.
Also, i like Support Lux but unsure what she'd be best with. I've had success with Ashe and Vayne, probably because you can set up both for a hard cc chain, along with a Lux full combo burst.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Soraka:
Works Well with:
Works Okay With:
No Go:
Sona:
Works Well with:
- Urgot
- Draven
- Tristana
- Graves
- Cait
Works Okay with:
No go:
Taric:
Works Well with:
- Corki
- Graves
- Draven
- Tristana
- Vayne
- Cait
Works Okay with:
No Go:
- Pretty much good with a lot of people.
Janna:
Works Well with:
- Ashe
- Graves
- Tristana
- Vayne
- Draven
- Urgot
- Varus
- Cait
Works okay with:
No go:
- Too much CC & Strong passive for there not to be a good synergized AD. Worst would be Corki in my opinion.
Leona:
Works Well with:
- Corki
- Graves
- Tristana
- Vayne
- Draven
- Urgot
- Varus
- Mf
- Cait
Works Okay with:
No go:
- Same reasons as Janna. Ashe is the only Okay as she doesn't benefit as well form Leonas stuns as much as the other bursty AD carries we have now do.
Nunu:
Works Well with:
Works Okay with:
No go:
More to come later.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
If you pair Leona with Ashe there's almost no chance a target gets away even with Flash because of Ashe's ult and Q.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Derosis
Soraka:
Works Well with:
Works Okay With:
No Go:
Sona:
Works Well with:
- Urgot
- Draven
- Tristana
- Graves
Works Okay with:
No go:
Taric:
Works Well with:
- Corki
- Graves
- Draven
- Tristana
- Vayne
Works Okay with:
No Go:
- Pretty much good with a lot of people.
Janna:
Works Well with:
- Ashe
- Graves
- Tristana
- Vayne
- Draven
- Urgot
- Varus
Works okay with:
No go:
- Too much CC & Strong passive for there not to be a good synergized AD. Worst would be Corki in my opinion.
Leona:
Works Well with:
- Corki
- Graves
- Tristana
- Vayne
- Draven
- Urgot
- Varus
- Mf
Works Okay with:
No go:
- Same reasons as Janna. Ashe is the only Okay as she doesn't benefit as well form Leonas stuns as much as the other bursty AD carries we have now do.
Nunu:
Works Well with:
Works Okay with:
No go:
More to come later.
You forgot about melee AD carries like Yi and Fiora.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raph589
You forgot about melee AD carries like Yi and Fiora.
Neither of those go bot.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
If you pair Leona with Ashe there's almost no chance a target gets away even with Flash because of Ashe's ult and Q.
It's why I put her with the okay list. Ashe is still kind of a high skill cap champion.
Not sure if you were directing to op or me, so I just quoted based off my experiences.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Derosis you left Cait off.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raul
Derosis you left Cait off.
I don't like Cait, but fine ill edit my list.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Derosis
It's why I put her with the okay list. Ashe is still kind of a high skill cap champion.
Not sure if you were directing to op or me, so I just quoted based off my experiences.
I'm directing it at you. The reasoning you provided had nothing to do with the skill level of the Ashe player, you said Ashe doesn't "have enough burst"
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
I'm directing it at you. The reasoning you provided had nothing to do with the skill level of the Ashe player, you said Ashe doesn't "have enough burst"
From Lv 1~6 her burst isn't enough. As in her Ult + E as burst damage. But later on that W in Mid game (Lv 9~13, if she does get farmed and 1/2 kills) does well, but it falls off late game as her only attribution to the team is vision, global ulting, slows and amazing DPS. No real burst after that.
Example: Graves Q does amazing Burst Damage, Corki's Ult does amazing burst damage, Tristana has amazing burst damage with her W + E combo, Vayne does a literal sh'it on people if she gets fed with true damage.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Derosis
From Lv 1~6 her burst isn't enough. As in her Ult + E as burst damage. But later on that W in Mid game (Lv 9~13, if she does get farmed and 1/2 kills) does well, but it falls off late game as her only attribution to the team is vision, global ulting, slows and amazing DPS. No real burst after that.
Example: Graves Q does amazing Burst Damage, Corki's Ult does amazing burst damage, Tristana has amazing burst damage with her W + E combo, Vayne does a literal sh'it on people if she gets fed with true damage.
WOT
THIS IS DUM GRAVES WILL NEVER Q FOR BURST UNLESS HE STANDING IN MELEE RANGE
CORKI'S ULT IS GOOD FOR PROCING TRINITY AND POKE, NOT BURST
TRIST ISN'T GOING TO USE SKILLS LATE GAME OTHER THAN Q FOR DAMAGE
VAYNE IS VAYNE
ASHE PRETTY GREAT SCALING, HER DAMAGE IS SKYHIGH WITH VOLLEY, ONLY LIMITED BY MANA
HOWEVER, ASHE + LEONA IS A pomegranate LANE
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
WOT
THIS IS DUM GRAVES WILL NEVER Q FOR BURST UNLESS HE STANDING IN MELEE RANGE
CORKI'S ULT IS GOOD FOR PROCING TRINITY AND POKE, NOT BURST
TRIST ISN'T GOING TO USE SKILLS LATE GAME OTHER THAN Q FOR DAMAGE
VAYNE IS VAYNE
ASHE PRETTY GREAT SCALING, HER DAMAGE IS SKYHIGH WITH VOLLEY, ONLY LIMITED BY MANA
I'm going to smack you with a hot skillet if you type like that again.
Response:
1. Golden rule in League: Target the AD carry. When getting closed in Graves is one of the best at getting the f'uck out. W + Q combo with E dash for escape or chase. Too strong and very bursty.
2. Nigga you high?
3. Nigga you high?
4. Well, duh?
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Derosis
From Lv 1~6 her burst isn't enough. As in her Ult + E as burst damage. But later on that W in Mid game (Lv 9~13, if she does get farmed and 1/2 kills) does well, but it falls off late game as her only attribution to the team is vision, global ulting, slows and amazing DPS. No real burst after that.
Example: Graves Q does amazing Burst Damage, Corki's Ult does amazing burst damage, Tristana has amazing burst damage with her W + E combo, Vayne does a literal sh'it on people if she gets fed with true damage.
You gave two very different reasons for Ashe/Leona only being "ok". Pick one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
WOT
THIS IS DUM GRAVES WILL NEVER Q FOR BURST UNLESS HE STANDING IN MELEE RANGE
so you know
he'll q for burst when he's qing for burst
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
You gave two very different reasons for Ashe/Leona only being "ok". Pick one.
so you know
he'll q for burst when he's qing for burst
NOT REALLY
IT AIN'T THAT BURSTY UNLESS YOU'RE STANDING ROUGHLY HALF A TEEMO AWAY FROM HIM IN WHICH CASE, THERE ARE MORE PRESSING QUESTIONS
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
NOT REALLY
IT AIN'T THAT BURSTY UNLESS YOU'RE STANDING ROUGHLY HALF A TEEMO AWAY FROM HIM IN WHICH CASE, THERE ARE MORE PRESSING QUESTIONS
Quickdraw -> Buckshot -> Collateral Damage -> Ignite
Like I said, he'll Q for burst when he's Qing for burst.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
Quickdraw -> Buckshot -> Collateral Damage -> Ignite
Like I said, he'll Q for burst when he's Qing for burst.
SO YOU GET HIT FOR 2 OUT OF 3 Q'S AT BEST
ALSO IF SORAKA HEALS YOU ANYWHERE BEFORE YOU GET ULTED, YOU LIVE AND LAUGH
OR IF YOU JOOK DA ULT
I LOVE IT WHEN I JOOK ULTS
ONLY TIME I SEE GRAVES HIT ALL 3 BUCKSHOTS IS WHEN HE'S TOP LANE AGAINST MELEE
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
SO YOU GET HIT FOR 2 OUT OF 3 Q'S AT BEST
ALSO IF SORAKA HEALS YOU ANYWHERE BEFORE YOU GET ULTED, YOU LIVE AND LAUGH
OR IF YOU JOOK DA ULT
I LOVE IT WHEN I JOOK ULTS
ONLY TIME I SEE GRAVES HIT ALL 3 BUCKSHOTS IS WHEN HE'S TOP LANE AGAINST MELEE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
Quickdraw -> Buckshot -> Collateral Damage -> Ignite
Like I said, he'll Q for burst when he's Qing for burst.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rayquaza2233
You gave two very different reasons for Ashe/Leona only being "ok". Pick one.
Mid game is Ashe's "Burst" period, anytime before or after that is not burst.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
SO YOU GET HIT FOR 2 OUT OF 3 Q'S AT BEST
ALSO IF SORAKA HEALS YOU ANYWHERE BEFORE YOU GET ULTED, YOU LIVE AND LAUGH
OR IF YOU JOOK DA ULT
I LOVE IT WHEN I JOOK ULTS
ONLY TIME I SEE GRAVES HIT ALL 3 BUCKSHOTS IS WHEN HE'S TOP LANE AGAINST MELEE
YOU KNOW YOU REALLY DONT HAVE TO TALK LIKE THIS IN EVERY POST, ALSO IF YOU ARE PLAYING GAMES WHERE PEOPLE ARE PLAYING GRAVES TOP LANE I FEEL REALLY BAD FOR YOU.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RandomZodiac
YOU KNOW YOU REALLY DONT HAVE TO TALK LIKE THIS IN EVERY POST, ALSO IF YOU ARE PLAYING GAMES WHERE PEOPLE ARE PLAYING GRAVES TOP LANE I FEEL REALLY BAD FOR YOU.
GRAVES TOP/MID IS EXTREMELY VIABLE DEPENDING ON THE ENEMY LANES
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
GRAVES TOP/MID IS EXTREMELY VIABLE DEPENDING ON THE ENEMY LANES
I GUESS IM NOT AT A HIGH ENOUGH ELO TO UNDERSTAND, MAYBE YOU COULD GIVE SOME EXAMPLES, ANY VIDEOS OF PRO PLAYERS USING THAT
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RandomZodiac
I GUESS IM NOT AT A HIGH ENOUGH ELO TO UNDERSTAND, MAYBE YOU COULD GIVE SOME EXAMPLES, ANY VIDEOS OF PRO PLAYERS USING THAT
YA PRETTY MUCH
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
YA PRETTY MUCH
LEMME KNOW WHEN YOU FIND A VIDEO OF PROS DOING THAT AYNIA KAY?
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Both of you. Stop with the f'ucking caps lock.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
When I read what Aynia is posting, it comes out sounding like an old redneck sitting on his porch yelling at kids, no matter what I do.
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raul
When I read what Aynia is posting, it comes out sounding like an old redneck sitting on his porch yelling at kids, no matter what I do.
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
ALSO http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 SEE SECTION ON TOP LANE (GRAVES/CORKI/VAYNE)
Quote:
Graves is the hardest of the 3 AD laners and will test your skill with riven, especially if he starts cloth. The reason he is so much harder to deal with than corki is two fold. His dash is low mana so he can spam it but it also only moves him a short distance, enough that you have trouble catching him and that he can hit you as you walk back after using your spells. If he sounds tough it is because he is, at least to people with inexperience versus this kind of matchup. There really isn't any single trick to this matchup, it is all about outplaying him by taking less damage and harassing him for more.
A REPLAY AT 2K ELO OF GRAVES SOLO TOP
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/390921/
SEE ANOTHER GUIDE AT HIGHER ELO OF SOLO TOP NIDALEE
http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=13827
Quote:
Due to the recent surge of Graves and Corki going top, not that abnormal to see those two champs at top. Pretty scary since Graves can fill any role and be pretty good at it. His passive makes him pretty tanky in lane too. Smoke bombs are annoying since you rely on autoattacks for your main damage source during the laning phase and he has a pretty big burst at 6. Just last hit and harass him when there's nothing to last hit.
SORRY UR METAGAMING AT 900 ELO IS NOT AS EFFECTIVE
IT TOUGH DOWN THERE
YOU DON'T BAN MORG, PPL AFK AND pomegranate
PPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEE EE
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Re: AD carry + Support Synergy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aynia
SURE SUCKS TO BE AT THE 1192 ELO, MAYBE I SHOULD MAKE A NEW ACCOUNT AND DO RANKED ON THAT SO I DONT GET WEIGHTED DOWN BY MY FRIENDS, ALSO ILL BE SURE TO WATCH THAT REPLAY EVENTUALLY TO SEE HOW WELL HE DID. IM SO EXCITED TO HOPEFULLY WATCH GRAVES/CORKI TOP AT THE REGIONAL FINALS
