Dragon knight skills

Ok i just recently made it to dragon knight and was noting the builds. Since I have been playing ms for a while, Dragon Buster is what makes a dragon knight a dragon knight. so I got a point in it. and I found it was Really good. lvl 1 Buster > max fury. and lvl 1 fury < max ground smash.

So anyway I'm playing around with lvl 5 fury and lvl 1 crusher. And I notice that fury isn't all that good. Ignoring the fact that fury is weaker, just hitting 4 mobs with it makes out to be a pain. Not saying its impossible but without rush I'm hitting 4 mobs like 1/5 attacks with fury.

My goal is to have max Buster without slowing down any potential training. So the questions are:
1) If there is anyplace that easily and frequently spawns 4+ mobs in the levels lv 75~120? I know there's Mp3 but is fury's range big enough for 4+ mobs there? (havent been in a while)

2)I have no pre-insight on Roar but would it be feasible to leave Dragon's Roar at lvl 21 and just max both fury and Buster.

there's 2 reasons for fury over buster right now.

1. fury's range is massive, as in, really massive
2. without rush, buster will very rarely be hitting 3 targets, if you're hitting 3 targets with buster constantly, fury will be hitting 4+

there's loads of places, the desert at 70, the chimney too (and if you happen to be stuck with the middle platform, the mobs summon so separate that buster would be useless), moving to 80 we have roids and MP3 (spawn on MP3 is MASSIVE, you'll be hitting 7~8 targets constantly if you're doing the whole map yourself), after that there's aliens (most maps have good spawn that makes fury better), and then you move to LHC, which would be the only place where buster would be marginally better.

there's a phrase that goes around in the DrK subforum, "if you're not using fury, you're training at the wrong place"

roar is imperative to be maxed, during third job it's incredibly useful, not only does it have a high enough damage to OHKO most of the stuff you're training on, it also has, when maxed the shortest cooldown of all skills, as i said MP3 is packed, especially the bottom and top platforms, a normal strategy is to use roar from the middle platform to clear around 11 mobs from the top platform without having to climb there, or using it from atop the truck to hit everything around, then slipstream to the left to kill what was out of range and climb to the second platform, it really helps training on second job by making you climb less platforms.

the second great thing about it, is that being a third job ultimate, it will alow you to counter-KS very effectively, with only 10 second cooldown (make it 13 due to servers) it allows you to use it once every 2 monster waves, this makes a lot of people not want to KS you.

And it's something that is useful even on 4th job, want to clear zakum from spawns, or HT? roar, the low cooldown allows you to keep the side of your screen clean (really useful for the black drakes when fighting the heads.) plus if one of your friends is training a mule and is getting KSed, you can provide counter-KS support

i really recommend the guide stickied on basil, here: http://www.basilmarket.com/MapleStor...Level-364.html

if you're dead set on maxing buster, sacrifice elemental resistance for it, do note you won't use buster ever again after level 120 though.

@icephoenix21: trained a Dragon knight all the way to 120, while "under my supervision" so to speak, you can probably ask her about how fury competed in training places, and if she ever felt that maxed buster would have been a better choice. on top of what she did for training.

anything else?

derped tag, sorry for doublepost @icephoenix21;

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

@icephoenix21: trained a Dragon knight all the way to 120, while "under my supervision" so to speak, you can probably ask her about how fury competed in training places, and if she ever felt that maxed buster would have been a better choice. on top of what she did for training.

anything else?

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I enjoyed training that char to 120. It was a nice change of pace than my bishop :f2:
I have no reason to max buster or train with it.
I messed around with it just to change things up a little at lhc, but overall fury was still better.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

there's 2 reasons for fury over buster right now.

-snip-

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Ok thanks. I really wanted it just cuz of those motivation videos of Tiger and whenever I would go to Zakum back way when and you would see like 5 Dragon crusher animations. so awsome!!
but yeah I must be training at the wrong places then. It was big spiders and then that map to the right of them. And Roar sounds much better now that you describe it. I just didnt think that the difference between 21 and 30 was so great. But less cooldown on a skill is ALWAYS better.

So the policy for training is "if you're not using fury, you're training at the wrong place". I'll keep that in mind when I'm training. And I guess I go to Ariant first.

But I do have one last question. For sacrifice, when does it beat out Impale? I know impale has more % but Sacrifice ignores all PDR so what PDR lvl is sacrifice better. I think its like 40 or above.

I want to know just cuz even though sacrifice animation is.... weird, it also holds a unique value for me. just cuz its a main attacking skill that eats a large portion of health. so you have to worry about dieing when using it. which adds a bit excitement to the game for me. Because really the only thing that's Exciting , Exciting is seeing wither or not I can survive this boss. nowadays... thats really not much of a issue outside of DR. because It really doesn't feel the same. So I would be really sad if I found out that Sacrifice is in the same boat as Buster.

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Originally Posted by valhala556

Ok thanks. I really wanted it just cuz of those motivation videos of Tiger and whenever I would go to Zakum back way when and you would see like 5 Dragon crusher animations. so awsome!!
but yeah I must be training at the wrong places then. It was big spiders and then that map to the right of them. And Roar sounds much better now that you describe it. I just didnt think that the difference between 21 and 30 was so great. But less cooldown on a skill is ALWAYS better.

So the policy for training is "if you're not using fury, you're training at the wrong place". I'll keep that in mind when I'm training. And I guess I go to Ariant first.

But I do have one last question. For sacrifice, when does it beat out Impale? I know impale has more % but Sacrifice ignores all PDR so what PDR lvl is sacrifice better. I think its like 40 or above.

I want to know just cuz even though sacrifice animation is.... weird, it also holds a unique value for me. just cuz its a main attacking skill that eats a large portion of health. so you have to worry about dieing when using it. which adds a bit excitement to the game for me. Because really the only thing that's Exciting , Exciting is seeing wither or not I can survive this boss. nowadays... thats really not much of a issue outside of DR. because It really doesn't feel the same. So I would be really sad if I found out that Sacrifice is in the same boat as Buster.

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i know, i went to zak when i was under 150 (orange crusher) with a DrK with purple crusher, and the alternating colors on the arms were so pretty.

sacrifice is... weird. overall it's determined that you need a damage of 2.2~2.3M average with impale for it to beat a max/max sacrifice, sacrifice is faster and always triggers FA (at a 40% rate) compared to impale, which depending on from how far you're attacking may or may not trigger FA

i don't know/haven't calculated the exact turnover point, but it depends a lot on impale's damage on the boss you're attacking, again, 2.3~ish M damage per impale is around where it flips.

on the down(up?)side wisdom's recovery rate is so insane, even when spamming sac, you're not prone to die from it (unless you're tanking zakum body on top of it or something) me at VL, without HB, heal enough from spamming it to not even have to watch my HP bar.

sac is still useful though, until massive damage ranges. useless on normal mobs, on empress my sac damage is 700k~close to max twice, while impale barely does 500k~700k ish

thanks. Its a slight bummer that you dont have to watch your hp when spamming sarc but I can make due with it. And awesome that its not useless. and honestly I'm probably never going to hit max/max with sacrifice. I never have enough money to fully fund myself.

Thanks for the speedy answers

dragon fury has fantastic range (I cannot stress this fact enough), a great mobbing skill.. unfortunately I have never had a dragon/dark knight past chaos. I barely used buster unless I had a few mobs stuck together closely, on top of the fact 3rd job has no rush.
I was also a pole arm knight before the mastery merge so I basically grew up with fury.

only use sac at bosses, it's not quite the best training because it only hits so much compared to impale (and its FA chance). since you said you won't have amazing funding it's best that way because of the PDR ignore.

Unless fury has some splash damage I haven't notice yet, it's range doesnt seem all that great. I dont know where you guys are getting this "great range" from. It seems to be the same height as Buster and ever so slightly longer than buster.

it's hard to explain, but i went and got this from one of my old videos of pre BB
if you use it just right, you can hit about this range (a little bit more too)

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5135/furysrange.png

if that's not good range for a melee character skill then I don't know what is and I have a BM main :|

Buster's range shit.

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Originally Posted by Locked

Buster's range shit.

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well, the range isn't as pomegranate now

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...n/0219fa68.gif

however, you're comparing these things:

buster times:
1050 with spear
900 with polearm

fury times:
800 with either.

buster hits: 3 max
fury hits: 8 max

buster hits each target for 600%
fury hits each target for 450%

on 3 targets, ignoring any speed differences, buster is 1800%
fury on 4 targets? 1800%
on 5? 2250
on max? 3600

so as long as you're hitting 4 targets, they're the same, but unlike buster, fury can go BEYOND that. and on places like mp3, you WILL go beyond that.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

well, the range isn't as pomegranate now

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Funfact.

That range is post-justice.

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Originally Posted by Locked

Funfact.

That range is post-justice.

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http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=50718
>union

?

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=50718
>union

?

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Same thing?

Union originally included Thief/Pirate updates til they went full retard and named it something else.

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Originally Posted by Locked

Same thing?

Union originally included Thief/Pirate updates til they went full retard and named it something else.

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my point is we are already on union, there's no difference between union and justice buster or fury, so the numbers i used do apply right now.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

my point is we are already on union, there's no difference between union and justice buster or fury, so the numbers i used do apply right now.

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What?
"Well the range isn't as pomegranatety now"

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Originally Posted by Locked

What?
"Well the range isn't as pomegranatety now"

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range as in distance it reaches horizontally it's 200% compared to the previous 180%, hat are you trying to get at?

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

range as in distance it reaches horizontally it's 200% compared to the previous 180%, hat are you trying to get at?

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Okay. Look.
I posted a comment saying that Buster's range is bad.
You replied to that comment saying "It isn't as bad now"
I replied saying "That's what the range is now though"
You replied saying.. the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Locked

Okay. Look.
I posted a comment saying that Buster's range is bad.
You replied to that comment saying "It isn't as bad now"
I replied saying "That's what the range is now though"
You replied saying.. the same thing.

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i see, well, the reason is because i went to check fury's range, and came up with the above gif, the difference between both isn't as big as it was before.
reason why i went to check it was because for some reason fiel's extractions don't show a range for it.

i thought the difference between fury and buster would be... bigger than that.

see told you they were basically the same... lol But really. Thanks again for the help. lvl 79 now. and that advice of if your not using fury your not training right. is dam true.

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Originally Posted by valhala556

see told you they were basically the same... lol But really. Thanks again for the help. lvl 79 now. and that advice of if your not using fury your not training right. is dam true.

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range-wise... maybe, damage-wise... seems you know the answer by experience now.

@ShinkuDragon Why is the GIF image reversed?

Anyways, I prefer Fury to Buster as a DrK as Fury handles more than 3 mobs in front of you better than Buster IMO.

About Dragon Roar, It's much more useful than I thought it was upon using it. Considering that there are training spots that I mainly use Shout on my Hero (Mr. Allis, Captains, etc.) Dragon Roar will have good use there. Dragon Roar isn't as spammable as Shout is considering that it has a cooldown, but it's meant to weaken mobs to help you train faster.

Speaking of map layouts that favor AoE skills such as Shout and Dragon Roar, Mr. Allis have the familiar that actually heals 15% of your HP and MP every 10 seconds which will compensate the HP consumption on Dragon Roar that is level 15 and above. I would probably consider maxing Dragon Roar as you don't need to worry about wasting HP potions if you have a Familiar with you.

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Originally Posted by FlameChocobo

@ShinkuDragon Why is the GIF image reversed?

Anyways, I prefer Fury to Buster as a DrK as Fury handles more than 3 mobs in front of you better than Buster IMO.

About Dragon Roar, It's much more useful than I thought it was upon using it. Considering that there are training spots that I mainly use Shout on my Hero (Mr. Allis, Captains, etc.) Dragon Roar will have good use there. Dragon Roar isn't as spammable as Shout is considering that it has a cooldown, but it's meant to weaken mobs to help you train faster.

Speaking of map layouts that favor AoE skills such as Shout and Dragon Roar, Mr. Allis have the familiar that actually heals 15% of your HP and MP every 10 seconds which will compensate the HP consumption on Dragon Roar that is level 15 and above. I would probably consider maxing Dragon Roar as you don't need to worry about wasting HP potions if you have a Familiar with you.

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in my opinion, it's easier to measure distance from left to right, so that's why i did it. easy enough to flip if you want to.
roar has a much larger area vs Shout no?
believe me, wisdom's heal is so massive, you won't even have to pot.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

in my opinion, it's easier to measure distance from left to right, so that's why i did it. easy enough to flip if you want to.
roar has a much larger area vs Shout no?
believe me, wisdom's heal is so massive, you won't even have to pot.

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Case and point. Even though I love using Shout, I still think Dragon Roar's superior. Though, Dragon Roar will lose its uses considering that you can instant kill using Dark Impale (The same damage as Brave Slash) as a DarK when solo training (which is if you deal enough damage to instant kill.) I wish the normal mobs would have more HP, that way I can rush 'n attack without having like 0 mobs in front of me if I kill them (which I don't have to worry since I have Dash Jump.)

With a familiar that heals good amount of HP, I agree. Other than that, you'll still use HP potions, just not as much.

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Originally Posted by FlameChocobo

Case and point. Even though I love using Shout, I still think Dragon Roar's superior. Though, Dragon Roar will lose its uses considering that you can instant kill using Dark Impale (The same damage as Brave Slash) as a DarK when solo training (which is if you deal enough damage to instant kill.) I wish the normal mobs would have more HP, that way I can rush 'n attack without having like 0 mobs in front of me if I kill them (which I don't have to worry since I have Dash Jump.)

With a familiar that heals good amount of HP, I agree. Other than that, you'll still use HP potions, just not as much.

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D-roar loses a lot of usefulness for 4th job training, since you'll be sitting in LHC, it becomes more of a secondary skill to clean the screen in bosses/farming to prevent you from climbing ropes and stuff.

Yeah I haven't used a hp potion since lvl 71. But I must say the stun on dragon's Roar is a pain. Im not strong enough to 1hit everything with a single cast so I have to lure mobs together before I can roar (at mp3) or else im stuck not Furying 8 mobs at a time.

eventually it should ohko. s it maxed yet?

Yeah I max it. currently lvl 98. I have blood maxed as well. I can OHKO occonally but thats only on a high end crit. normally it'll hit around 30k damage.

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Originally Posted by ShinkuDragon

D-roar loses a lot of usefulness for 4th job training, since you'll be sitting in LHC, it becomes more of a secondary skill to clean the screen in bosses/farming to prevent you from climbing ropes and stuff.

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The thing is, I probably won't be at LHC as much as I barely have any friends that want to LHC. The only purpose I'll go to LHC for is the quest line so that I can fight Van Leon, which is frustrating since the only area people train on are Crockies.