KaidaTan Wrote:You mean how Bowmasters do 10k 55% of the time and 3k 45% of the time? Hurricane is a Bowmaster's main skill, it makes sense that it would end up doing more damage than a Captain's best un-transformed skill. Even so, you have to remember that Crits are not the only things Bowmasters can do.

Holypie Wrote:3k 45% or the time? whaddya mean? i'm not a BM i don't know

Hazzy Wrote:3k attack, but Sharp Eyes makes a crit 340% damage, 3 * 3.4 = 10.2
45% of the time is how often they don't get Crits. o.0

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I downloaded a Youtube video and looked at it closely, and a Fast Gun using Triple Fire hits 100 times a minute. <3<3 I can only imagine Faster.

Ok, after doing some math, I do not recommend adding into Rapid Fire.
First off, Triple Fire can jump shoot, with almost no lost to DPS, while you have to stand still for Rapid. Second, Triple uses three bullets per attack, around 5 bullets a second, while Rapid uses 8, that adds up. Now, the maths.
Triple Fire attacks 1.66666... times per second, Five times in three seconds, doing 630% per hit. Multiply and you get 10,500% per second from Triple Fire, but only 12,800% (160%*8), per second with Rapid. So although Rapid does more damage, it's only by 230%, even less when defense is added in. From what I've seen, it would drop to around 100%-150% after most high leveled Defenses are added in.

So, in summary:
~Triple Fire is cheaper
~Triple Fire can move without damage loss
~Rapid Fire does more damage if spammed.

Bribery Wrote:Wow that's some interesting information o_o

I think it's still useful to get Rapid Fire as it is stronger than Triple Fire despite weapon defense. Gunslingers already lack in damage, I wouldn't want to make them weaker by still using a 3rd job attack instead of a 4th job.

Quote:Wow this guide got stickied Thanks mods

Hazzy Wrote:3k attack, but Sharp Eyes makes a crit 340% damage, 3 * 3.4 = 10.2
45% of the time is how often they don't get Crits. o.0

~~~~~
I downloaded a Youtube video and looked at it closely, and a Fast Gun using Triple Fire hits 100 times a minute. <3<3 I can only imagine Faster.

Ok, after doing some math, I do not recommend adding into Rapid Fire.
First off, Triple Fire can jump shoot, with almost no lost to DPS, while you have to stand still for Rapid. Second, Triple uses three bullets per attack, around 5 bullets a second, while Rapid uses 8, that adds up. Now, the maths.
Triple Fire attacks 1.66666... times per second, Five times in three seconds, doing 630% per hit. Multiply and you get 10,500% per second from Triple Fire, but only 12,800% (160%*8), per second with Rapid. So although Rapid does more damage, it's only by 230%, even less when defense is added in. From what I've seen, it would drop to around 100%-150% after most high leveled Defenses are added in.

So, in summary:
~Triple Fire is cheaper
~Triple Fire can move without damage loss
~Rapid Fire does more damage if spammed.

Hazzy Wrote:Well, that's the thing, Triple Fire would not only be more money effective, but it would be just as strong, any difference would be nearly impossible to notice. I'm not sure how Rapid Fire works, but if it's like Hurricane, getting hit by a Magic Attack would screw over a Rapid user, but do nothing to a Triple Fier-er. :/

Bribery Wrote:Well Captains can freeze so magic attacks shouldn't be a problem.

But based on your math, Rapid Fire is only about 1.2x stronger than Triple Fire...Maybe I should postpone Rapid Fire in my 4th job build and max Battleship Cannon earlier.

JoeTang Wrote:Where did you get that Rapid Fire shoots at 480spm?

You're factoring defense all wrong. Rapid Fire would still do 230% more than Tripe Fire per second. Both skills suffer the exact same damage reduction.

45% is not how often Triple Fire would not get Criticals with Sharp Eyes. 61.4% of the time, they won't get Criticals from maxed Sharp Eyes. In any case, Rapid Fire does more damage than Triple Fire, and it it does even more damage with Sharp Eyes than Triple Fire with Sharp Eyes. Sharp Eyes also does not make a Critical 340%. augh *facepalm*

Hazzy Wrote:I downloaded this video and looked into Cannon Ball's speed, and got the same speed of 100/minute. That's 3.8*4*5/3, which is 25,333% per second, over twice that of Rapid fire. xD
Cannon first please?




Defense is deducted per strike in the skill. Eight bullets per second looses more from DEF than 5.

The part with Crits was dealing with a Bowmaster's crits. >

Look at Bribery's videos in the original post, it has a video of Rapid's speed.

JoeTang Wrote:Eight Bullets per Second does not lose more from defense than five. It's been thoroughly proven.

Hazzy Wrote:Well, since I've heard nothing of the sort, link please?

JoeTang Wrote:Link it? It's common knowledge. It applies for every class and every skill that doesn't ignore defense. Defense is applied to your base damage range before skill% is applied.

Bribery Wrote:If that's how defense works then Rapid Fire isn't so bad after all. Either way, I altered the 4th job build to max Battleship Cannon earlier, before getting Advanced Homing.

xDae Wrote:My guide isnt cool enough to be stickied

Ima go and make it better

Hazzy Wrote:Rapid Fire still does half the damage of Cannon Ball and at almost twice the cost of Triple Fire. D:

I still see Rapid Fire being maxed early. D: What exactly is it good for?

I think the build should save Rapid Fire 'till a later level and get Torpedo/Cannon/Octopus/Air Strike/Amp first. :o

Bribery Wrote:I still maxed Rapid Fire early because you can't rely on Battleship all the time. If it breaks you're stuck with 3rd job damage until the cooldown ends.

Quote:My 4th job build is largely based on that level 150 Captain @ Peak, since she is the most skilled one I've seen so far. I don't know what order she got the skills at but we both end up having the same build at level 150 (well, before I decided to max Advanced Homing later on).

I think my current 4th job build is the better way to go since it provides a good balance of all Captain skills. Level 16 Battleship Cannon is still a good 50% stronger than maxed Rapid Fire. The upside to this is that you don't have to resort to using a 3rd job skill once the Battleship breaks.

Bribery Wrote:I still maxed Rapid Fire early because you can't rely on Battleship all the time. If it breaks you're stuck with 3rd job damage until the cooldown ends. All I really changed in the build was max Battleship Cannon before starting on Advanced Homing.

My 4th job build is largely based on that level 150 Captain @ Peak

Hazzy Wrote:As I said before, there isn't a huge difference in the damage, but there is a huge difference in bullet usage/mobility between using Rapid or Triple Fire. Triple's cheaper and lets you move easier, while Rapid leaves glued to the floor whiling burning money. Constant recharges suck at places as deep as Newties. :/


50% isn't a lot. o_o
What's wrong with 3d job skills? D: A 90 second cooldown time can give you time to stretch (XD)
Oh, I also forgot to mention how Rapid Fire doesn't bend much, as the Interview from the SEA forum said, while Triple Fire does.

JoeTang Wrote:That doesn't make much sense. It should bend just as much as Triple Fire does.

Anyways, I took a look at that video. Rapid Fire shoots at 514.2 Bullets per minute. 8.57 per second. Not 8. Thus 321% more damage per second.

Hazzy Wrote:http://www.mncast.com/player/index.asp?mnum=5219975