Archer %/s (KMS Unlimited and GMS Tempest)

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2013-01-13, 08:42 AM
Takebacker

Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fodjgngf

For some reason Phoenix doesn't hit over cap

Summons and dot don't have a cap.
2013-01-13, 09:52 AM
fodjgngf

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takebacker

Summons and dot don't have a cap.

Currently my phoenix does have a damage cap.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...aple0022-1.jpg
2013-01-13, 11:35 AM
JoeTang

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fodjgngf

Currently my phoenix does have a damage cap.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...aple0022-1.jpg

Is it affected by total damage buffs?
2013-01-13, 12:07 PM
fodjgngf

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTang

Is it affected by total damage buffs?

Well in that screen shot it's being effected by Elemental Advantage and possibly spirit link? I'm unsure if it is or not. I could use AB's Terms and Conditions see if that effects it.

Terms and Conditions don't effect it so I guess SL won't either.
2013-01-13, 12:54 PM
JoeTang

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fodjgngf

Well in that screen shot it's being effected by Elemental Advantage and possibly spirit link? I'm unsure if it is or not. I could use AB's Terms and Conditions see if that effects it.

Terms and Conditions don't effect it so I guess SL won't either.

I've observed that Terms and Conditions doesn't affect Cannon Shooter summons, so it may not be the best skill to test with.
2013-01-13, 01:11 PM
fodjgngf

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTang

I've observed that Terms and Conditions doesn't affect Cannon Shooter summons, so it may not be the best skill to test with.

Well I can reset Spirit Link today and see if the damage is still the same?
2013-01-13, 01:36 PM
JoeTang

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fodjgngf

Well I can reset Spirit Link today and see if the damage is still the same?

Maybe try against a boss like in Dojo vs a regular monster if you have some boss damage.
2013-01-13, 02:30 PM
fodjgngf

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Reset Spirit Link ; Went to stumps again, deal about the same before removal of spirit link. Used some attack boosts to increase my range back to the attack range I had before SL removal. Deal the same as I did with spirit link roughly.

I have 118% boss. Dojo monsters on hard mode were generally in the 490k~580k range. Same on Normal Monsters. I don't think boss does anything for phoenix. Top range was 145,160.

Yeah, it's looking like SL doesn't help phoenix do extra damage.

160,497 top range best hit from phoenix i've seen was 626k
2013-01-14, 01:28 PM
Vanderlust

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Noticed this yesterday in GPA, so I tested it as soon as I got out:

http://i.imgur.com/anOmb.jpg

I'll test it a little more later with bosses/tot dmg and all that.
2013-01-14, 02:03 PM
JoeTang

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanderlust

Noticed this yesterday in GPA, so I tested it as soon as I got out:

http://i.imgur.com/anOmb.jpg

I'll test it a little more later with bosses/tot dmg and all that.

I know for a fact that Mercedes's summons are unaffected by total damage. I'll update the max damage for Mercedes in a bit.
2013-01-14, 04:54 PM
fodjgngf

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

I'm wondering if it's because both of the mobs that we capped our summons on are fire weak.
2013-01-16, 08:09 PM
Vanderlust

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Did some cursory testing:

Images

Fire Weak
http://i.imgur.com/CPzns.jpg

Ice Weak
http://i.imgur.com/rpIHe.jpg

Miniboss
http://i.imgur.com/jd9yQ.jpg

Normal mob
http://i.imgur.com/ZbUOk.jpg

Conclusions (may or may not be derived from solely images):

1) Cap for elemental knights only present for fire weak mobs/bosses
2) Ice elemental knight doesn't have an ice attribute or ignores weakness/resistance
3) Miniboss/normal/boss mob classification doesn't matter for capping/not capping
2013-01-17, 05:18 PM
fodjgngf

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Well you had shadow in your last 2 pictures. Does fire hit above the cap as well on those mobs?
@Vanderlust
2013-01-17, 05:47 PM
Vanderlust

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fodjgngf

Well you had shadow in your last 2 pictures. Does fire hit above the cap as well on those mobs?
@Vanderlust

I don't know I'm not strong enough to test that, but at the very least it did in previous patches.

Link
2013-01-17, 06:45 PM
JoeTang

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

I'm considering at this point just not caring since it's impossible for most summons to hit cap in Unlimited anyways. I might even calculate the flat cap on summons in the future.

That also brings up the point that Attack% skills are multiplicative with Total Damage, but when your range is 2m~2m, Attack% can't help you anymore unlike having more Total Damage. I'll need to look into how to account for this, since it's directly added to the %/s now since it's effectively the same thing as having a higher multiplier, but there is a range cap.

Wild Hunters have had their Attack% bonuses correctly added to the tables, but the above should be taken into consideration.
2013-01-17, 08:16 PM
fodjgngf

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTang

I'm considering at this point just not caring since it's impossible for most summons to hit cap in Unlimited anyways. I might even calculate the flat cap on summons in the future.

That also brings up the point that Attack% skills are multiplicative with Total Damage, but when your range is 2m~2m, Attack% can't help you anymore unlike having more Total Damage. I'll need to look into how to account for this, since it's directly added to the %/s now since it's effectively the same thing as having a higher multiplier, but there is a range cap.

Wild Hunters have had their Attack% bonuses correctly added to the tables, but the above should be taken into consideration.

I think you may as well just use a flat cap. It's... pretty ridiculous to get a summon to hit the damage cap considering boss damage and criticals have no effect on them.
2013-01-17, 09:34 PM
MountLag

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTang

I'm considering at this point just not caring since it's impossible for most summons to hit cap in Unlimited anyways. I might even calculate the flat cap on summons in the future.

That also brings up the point that Attack% skills are multiplicative with Total Damage, but when your range is 2m~2m, Attack% can't help you anymore unlike having more Total Damage. I'll need to look into how to account for this, since it's directly added to the %/s now since it's effectively the same thing as having a higher multiplier, but there is a range cap.

Wild Hunters have had their Attack% bonuses correctly added to the tables, but the above should be taken into consideration.

Well players with 2m~2m range aren't hitting the same damage on every line, so it's likely that the range limit is purely visual.
2013-01-17, 09:43 PM
JoeTang

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountLag

Well players with 2m~2m range aren't hitting the same damage on every line, so it's likely that the range limit is purely visual.

No, it's that their range includes Total Damage.
2013-01-17, 11:55 PM
MountLag

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTang

No, it's that their range includes Total Damage.

Oh that's a good point.

Well since these godly funded players aren't hitting the same damage on every line yet, I guess it might be reasonable to just assume that few to no players will run into a problem where their %atk starts to become useless due to range cap.

Re: Archer %/s (Hyper Archer, Wild Hunter, and Mercedes)

Wind Archer:

Spoiler

Weapon Speed: Fastest (2)

Defense: 0% 10% 40% 70% Boss 0% 10% 40% 70% Boss 0% 10% 40% 70% Hits Max Over
1 Target: 6417%/s 5918%/s 4447%/s 2976%/s 100%: 10427%/s 9662%/s 7257%/s 4847%/s 200%: 14457%/s 13358%/s 10010%/s 6725%/s 12.15/s 607.64m/s 0.0/s
2 Target: 11774%/s 10884%/s 8160%/s 5481%/s 100%: 19819%/s 18300%/s 13744%/s 9203%/s 200%: 27836%/s 25707%/s 19342%/s 12940%/s 24.26/s 1212.9m/s 0.0/s
3 Target: 17370%/s 16069%/s 12075%/s 8086%/s 100%: 29432%/s 27219%/s 20426%/s 13681%/s 200%: 41475%/s 38315%/s 28844%/s 19282%/s 36.38/s 1819.16m/s 0.0/s
4 Target: 23034%/s 21277%/s 15982%/s 10700%/s 100%: 39100%/s 36123%/s 27106%/s 18154%/s 200%: 55156%/s 50936%/s 38317%/s 25606%/s 48.47/s 2423.57m/s 0.0/s
5 Target: 29206%/s 26972%/s 20270%/s 13566%/s 100%: 49530%/s 45747%/s 34374%/s 23006%/s 200%: 69859%/s 64507%/s 48484%/s 32451%/s 42.38/s 2119.21m/s 0.0/s
6 Target: 34523%/s 31883%/s 23961%/s 16037%/s 100%: 58634%/s 54157%/s 40695%/s 27234%/s 200%: 82769%/s 76440%/s 57439%/s 38443%/s 50.08/s 2503.93m/s 0.0/s
7 Target: 39844%/s 36795%/s 27651%/s 18507%/s 100%: 67763%/s 62579%/s 47028%/s 31478%/s 200%: 95663%/s 88350%/s 66400%/s 44449%/s 57.79/s 2889.73m/s 0.0/s
8 Target: 45162%/s 41703%/s 31342%/s 20977%/s 100%: 76870%/s 70997%/s 53349%/s 35713%/s 200%: 108605%/s 100282%/s 75358%/s 50442%/s 65.49/s 3274.53m/s 0.0/s

Hyper

Spoiler

Weapon Speed: Fastest (2)

Defense: 0% 10% 40% 70% Boss 0% 10% 40% 70% Boss 0% 10% 40% 70% Hits Max Over
1 Target: 15001%/s 13881%/s 10462%/s 7002%/s 100%: 23646%/s 21869%/s 16427%/s 11036%/s 200%: 32264%/s 29891%/s 22418%/s 15064%/s 23.08/s 1193.69m/s 0.33/s
2 Target: 24975%/s 23037%/s 17390%/s 11669%/s 100%: 39406%/s 36455%/s 27462%/s 18394%/s 200%: 53984%/s 49751%/s 37503%/s 25090%/s 40.64/s 2097.88m/s 0.67/s
3 Target: 35149%/s 32533%/s 24496%/s 16467%/s 100%: 55508%/s 51306%/s 38588%/s 25884%/s 200%: 75897%/s 70026%/s 52649%/s 35386%/s 58.42/s 3013.64m/s 1.0/s
4 Target: 45390%/s 41965%/s 31582%/s 21234%/s 100%: 71543%/s 66050%/s 49749%/s 33399%/s 200%: 97669%/s 90330%/s 67872%/s 45579%/s 76.04/s 3921.0m/s 1.33/s
5 Target: 39585%/s 36583%/s 27579%/s 18585%/s 100%: 65604%/s 60623%/s 45657%/s 30672%/s 200%: 91654%/s 84659%/s 63700%/s 42750%/s 57.02/s 2904.85m/s 1.66/s
6 Target: 46150%/s 42642%/s 32161%/s 21666%/s 100%: 76660%/s 70836%/s 53325%/s 35837%/s 200%: 107192%/s 99012%/s 74523%/s 50015%/s 66.45/s 3382.31m/s 1.99/s
7 Target: 52728%/s 48739%/s 36745%/s 24753%/s 100%: 87722%/s 81042%/s 61022%/s 41015%/s 200%: 122711%/s 113361%/s 85307%/s 57270%/s 75.87/s 3859.21m/s 2.33/s
8 Target: 59286%/s 54799%/s 41327%/s 27842%/s 100%: 98765%/s 91237%/s 68725%/s 46185%/s 200%: 138255%/s 127710%/s 96135%/s 64518%/s 85.28/s 4335.46m/s 2.66/s
9 Target: 65873%/s 60871%/s 45901%/s 30933%/s 100%: 109832%/s 101457%/s 76419%/s 51352%/s 200%: 153791%/s 142062%/s 106922%/s 71769%/s 94.69/s 4811.72m/s 2.99/s
10 Target: 72437%/s 66947%/s 50491%/s 34027%/s 100%: 120869%/s 111684%/s 84105%/s 56534%/s 200%: 169329%/s 156398%/s 117740%/s 79033%/s 104.12/s 5289.14m/s 3.32/s

Wind Archer: Uses Sky Song for 1~4 targets, Spiral Vortex for 5+ targets with an assumed speed of 810ms currently. Pinpoint Pierce is used once at the very beginning. Sky Song's single target bonus is accounted for. Trifling Whim is calculated by "If Trifling Whim activates, reroll for purple arrow, otherwise green arrow".

Hyper: Uses Monsoon when available, and Storm Bringer. Storm Bringer is a separate roll from Trifling Whim. Hypers for 1~4 use Sky Song - Reinforce and Sky Song - Boss Killer. Hypers for 5+ use Spiral Vortex - Bonus Attack and Spiral Vortex - Extra Target. All Hypers use Trifling Whim - Reinforce, Trifling Whim - Enhanced, Trifling Whim - Double Chance. Double Chance just gives the possibility to roll twice, it does not guarantee Trifling Whim will hit twice.
Currently, I believe they are either not completely done designing Spiral Vortex, or they copy-pasted another skill and forgot to remove some data, because it has a time variable, as well as a splash dummy, but neither appear to affect its in-game properties; it acts like any other spammable multitarget linear AOE (read: laser), except for the fact that people don't actually use it in KMST. I have no idea if this is because an issue exists with spam delays, or if it's bad, but Dance of Frozen Wind is awful and should not be used for a DPS alternative. It would be faster to kill 4 things with Sky Song and then kill the next two.

All of Trifling Whim's Hypers are the best DPS options compared to Sky Song or Spiral Vortex. Double Chance > Enhanced > Reinforce.

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