[KMST] [1.2.375] Monster Park

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2011-03-17, 06:42 PM
Kalovale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takebacker

???? I was never in this thread referring to party situations where a hero would magically have threatened bosses to fight. Besides, sacrifice ignores PDR. Pretty much all bosses and LHC mobs have 25% or greater PDR, which is pretty much the same as 1.25x damage you get from chance attack. The only difference is chance attack and hero attacks affect more than one mob, but this argument is completely different from the mobbing/balance thing we had going on before.

I thought we were accounting for Sacrifice's PDR-ignoring capability to make it better than BraveSlash. I recall something about Steve's calculations back then.

And if you want to split it into Pally-supported and non-Pally-supported, that's fine by me too. BraveSlash, Advance Combo, Advance FA, and Enrage are all supported whereas Drks "currently" can't use CO, and even when they do, it's just Berserk and 5% mastery.
2011-03-17, 06:42 PM
ghostofhalo

All I figured out after calculating is that Brave Slash is a filler attack in any senario. At this point, I can't argue any more about it. All I can say for sure is that Heroes can no longer spam Brave Slash without using finishers, and that's assuming finishers still have their formulas that are boosted from the number of orbs you have. One top of that, Darkness at the very least needs to work on bosses or Chance Attack is rather pointless. Without seeing videos, I won't bother to discuss it anymore. I like that finishers are more worthwhile (assuming the orb boosting exists still), but one of the reasons I couldn't be bothered to play my Aran is because I had to hit so many keys rather than holding one down and activating a few others when needed. I'd rather Heroes not turn into something of that manner, especially since it's my main class.

Again, I'll be holding out for some videos. Until then, I'll keep quite.
2011-03-17, 06:49 PM
Takebacker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalovale

I thought we were accounting for Sacrifice's PDR-ignoring capability to make it better than BraveSlash. I recall something about Steve's calculations back then.

Yeah i was just pointing it out. I think PDR between the two classes is kind of well done. Heroes ignore 40% of it, and if threaten is present then that's even less PDR + 1.25x damage. DrKs always ignore it with sac, and ignore 20% of it with impale. The problem is that PDR under 40ish% i suppose isn't really THAT big an impact on damage when ignoring is factored in but i guess damage is damage?

Also, do you think it's possible to hit 6 zak arms with dark impale? That would sure make DrKs and heroes balanced, lol. Edit: Looked at it's range and it's a LOT smaller than i thought it was. Is that even a range improvement over fury?
2011-03-17, 06:53 PM
FenixR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takebacker

Yeah i was just pointing it out. I think PDR between the two classes is kind of well done. Heroes ignore 40% of it, and if threaten is present then that's even less PDR + 1.25x damage. DrKs always ignore it with sac, and ignore 20% of it with impale. The problem is that PDR under 40ish% i suppose isn't really THAT big an impact on damage when ignoring is factored in but i guess damage is damage?

Also, do you think it's possible to hit 6 zak arms with dark impale? That would sure make DrKs and heroes balanced, lol. Edit: Looked at it's range and it's a LOT smaller than i thought it was. Is that even a range improvement over fury?

If the Dark impale Vertical Hitbox is large then i would think its possible. I can hit 4 Arms with ACB after all.
2011-03-17, 06:54 PM
Kalovale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takebacker

Yeah i was just pointing it out. I think PDR between the two classes is kind of well done. Heroes ignore 40% of it, and if threaten is present then that's even less PDR + 1.25x damage. DrKs always ignore it with sac, and ignore 20% of it with impale. The problem is that PDR under 40ish% i suppose isn't really THAT big an impact on damage when ignoring is factored in but i guess damage is damage?

Also, do you think it's possible to hit 6 zak arms with dark impale? That would sure make DrKs and heroes balanced, lol. Edit: Looked at it's range and it's a LOT smaller than i thought it was. Is that even a range improvement over fury?

It's small vertically, but that's about the same as Fury, I feel. Even Crusher has a bigger vertical range.

EDIT: Holy pineapple I leveled up.
2011-03-17, 07:17 PM
Tamillan

If my math was correct that i did quickly, hero is actually same with the intrepid slash being slower and with the boost of advanced final attack. Yea......why did they do that when there is no change in dps. O_O
2011-03-17, 07:24 PM
ghostofhalo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamillan

If my math was correct that i did quickly, hero is actually same with the intrepid slash being slower and with the boost of advanced final attack. Yea......why did they do that when there is no change in dps. O_O

The more interesting bit is what finishers do to affect DPS and the lack of range in comparison to the other two warriors since Heroes lack defense now. I enjoy math, but I am in no mood to even remotely attempt the massive amount of calculation to figure it out. Panic consumes 2 orbs, and Advanced Final Attack triggers 60% of the time that can recharge 2 orbs 80% of the time and 1 orb the other 20% of the time. On average, how many times can you spam Panic and how much damage does it deal assuming the finisher formula is still intact? Try that on for size.
2011-03-17, 07:30 PM
ShanghaiDizzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiel

Paladin

Holy Hammer:
http://www.happychinchilla.info/Sout...holyHammer.gif

Now, all Heaven's Hammer needs left to be awesome is to use it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwLg4tYvg0k
2011-03-17, 07:39 PM
Anonymous Moose

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takebacker

???? I was never in this thread referring to party situations where a hero would magically have threatened bosses to fight. Besides, sacrifice ignores PDR. Pretty much all bosses and LHC mobs have 25% or greater PDR, which is pretty much the same as 1.25x damage you get from chance attack. The only difference is chance attack and hero attacks affect more than one mob, but this argument is completely different from the mobbing/balance thing we had going on before.

Ignoring the PRR of 25% is a about a 1/3 increase, not 1/4.

100%/75% = 4/3
2011-03-17, 08:35 PM
JoeTang

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abysseon

So is sacrifice still considered the main bossing skill for drks and dark impale becomes their new
mob move or does the new skill replace both in bossing/training?

waits for an "wtp op'd!!!" update for archmages :D

Sacrifice does 920%/s and ignores defense 100% of the time

Dark Impale does 773.8%/s and ignores defense 20% of the time.

Sacrifice is still significantly better, but Dark Impale is a beastly mobbing skill for a Dark Knight, significantly better than Fury which only does 506.2%/s

Quote:

Originally Posted by modular

what did they do to panic and coma?

panic hits 6 mobs and... consumes 2 orbs? ...and deals a flat 670% instead of 480% * #orbs? +darkness stuff
coma hits 6, consumes 3 orbs(?), deals 620%, 90% stun 4sec...?

spammable panic/coma with a 25% damage increase for attacks subsequent to the first and a final attack improvement to help keep your orbs a lil longer? and a nerf on intrepid slash that may be significant enough to make you want to panic instead of slash when you have your orbs from 6~10?

video please.

Panic hits 6 mobs, consumes 2 orbs, and has a 90% chance to put monsters into Darkness for 9 seconds, lowering their accuracy by 60%. The damage should otherwise be calculated identically as it is now, unless they internally changed that, because the description is the same as it was before the change. It should then be ~1.4x stronger, so it would do about 1500% in 3rd job with 5 orbs, and 2688% in fourth job with 10 orbs.

Coma is slightly weaker but stuns and uses three orbs, which I don't find makes too much sense. If it hit more than six monsters or something, that'd be cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locked

I don't get it, the new Dark Knight changes are terrible.

herpderp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takebacker

Sacrifice HP cost per attack was reduced to 5% from 11? Wow, DrKs looking pretty attractive now.

@ above: And adv final attack is one more way heroes get an even more ridiculous damage boost from CO.

CO increases Advanced Final Attack's average damage by 6.16%. Comparatively, Intrepid Slash gets 18% more damage. It's not that significant compared to something like Advanced Charge Blow which gets +40% damage from CO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostofhalo

Enrage only attacks single targets and the real comparison here is mobbing attacks. Combine that with the fact that ACB is stronger and both are faster, hit more targets, AND have more range and you have one seriously screwed up situation. If they want some sort of balance, Brave Slash needs its original range back (250% pre-BB release) and should hit 6 targets. At that point, I couldn't care less about the speed increase. If we only get to hit half as many targets, the least they can do is increase the damage to make up for the advantages the other classes have. Heroes have a massive 1v1 DPS, I understand (3.2x damage), but at training areas and LHC, that doesn't mean squat.

umad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShiKage

Adv. Final Attack second?

I thought the build was : 5 Brave Slash (Enough to match Brandish, or just to out-damage it), then max Adv. Combo, then max Brave Slash. Would it be wiser to get max Adv. Final Attack before finishing off Brave Slash?

You need 15 Brave Slash too outDPS Brandish. lol. 15 Brave Slash 16 Advanced Final Attack is 690% damage. 30 Brave Slash 1 Advanced Final Attack is 749.98%. Unless you're explicitly training with Panic, in which case I recommend you use Brandish + Advanced Final Attack, since Brave Slash scales so poorly, you should max Brave Slash first if you're training with it.

Gonna try looking into DPS with new Panic.
2011-03-17, 08:49 PM
Baklava

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostofhalo

All I figured out after calculating is that Brave Slash is a filler attack in any senario. At this point, I can't argue any more about it. All I can say for sure is that Heroes can no longer spam Brave Slash without using finishers, and that's assuming finishers still have their formulas that are boosted from the number of orbs you have. One top of that, Darkness at the very least needs to work on bosses or Chance Attack is rather pointless. Without seeing videos, I won't bother to discuss it anymore. I like that finishers are more worthwhile (assuming the orb boosting exists still), but one of the reasons I couldn't be bothered to play my Aran is because I had to hit so many keys rather than holding one down and activating a few others when needed. I'd rather Heroes not turn into something of that manner, especially since it's my main class.

Again, I'll be holding out for some videos. Until then, I'll keep quite.

Lol you're complaining that your class is becoming too complicated to play?

oh god, this is funny.
2011-03-17, 08:55 PM
BBD

....
Spoiler Alert : I am going to sound negative/not surprised/not caring.

(Adventure) Revamp... Big Bang... Chaos...<InsertNewNameHere>
Guessing : Extreme, Supreme, Boom, disarray, discord, disorder (the patterns are going A, B, C, maybe D next.

In the end they are running out of ideas, so they just make skill changes again and again.
When Chaos came out in KMST I was like thinking why didn't just do these skill changes when Big Bang happened?
Now once again new skill changes...

I am guessing this is to set for Summer 2011.
KMST................................ GMS...............(Notes)
New Classes........................Areas..............(I wasn't paying attention to KMST at this time.)
Revamp...........................New classes .............(I wasn't paying attention to KMST at this time.)
Big Bang............................Revamp............ ..(Everyone was comparing adventure rings then KMST got hit with Big Bang everyone started saying Crit.)
Chaos..............................Big Bang...............(They were like how many weeks apart we got Big Bang then they get Chaos.)
(InsertNewName)................Chaos.............. ..(Nexon America said Summer 2011, I wont be surprised when this gets finished.)
2011-03-17, 08:59 PM
ghostofhalo

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTang

umad?

yessir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baklava

Lol you're complaining that your class is becoming too complicated to play?

oh god, this is funny.

My main complaint is that I played Aran and didn't like it because I had to constantly press buttons. So for me, C C C Down Forward C. It gets tiring after a while (physically). I don't mind thinking on my feet, but if I constantly end up switching between Brave Slash, Panic, and Rush based on how many orbs I have (which gets confusing at bosses with other Heroes), it'll start to get a little annoying. I can't say anything for sure until it comes out, and without videos or at least someone in KMST that plays a Hero, I can't judge how they react. A gimped Brave Slash may make up for a massive Panic damage. Instead of nerdraging anymore, I'm just going to sit back and watch the extractions and videos when they come out. We'll see how it goes.
2011-03-17, 09:02 PM
Baklava

It's hardly gimped considering the delay just goes from 840 to 930, which is less than 100ms.

Charge Blow goes from 600 to 810 ms which is a 210ms increase!
Everything at LHC is also element resistant
2011-03-17, 09:07 PM
Link

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTang

You need 15 Brave Slash too outDPS Brandish. lol. 15 Brave Slash 16 Advanced Final Attack is 690% damage. 30 Brave Slash 1 Advanced Final Attack is 749.98%. Unless you're explicitly training with Panic, in which case I recommend you use Brandish + Advanced Final Attack, since Brave Slash scales so poorly, you should max Brave Slash first if you're training with it.

Gonna try looking into DPS with new Panic.

I realize that after this patch, but I was going with current GMS data. Level 5 or 6 or whatever Brave Slash = Brandish damage and since they're both the same speed, it's the same DPS (except Brave Slash has a better critical chance).
2011-03-17, 09:18 PM
Raph589

Spadow's article is up, if anyone wants to read it. This patch has a lot to offer. Party ratio changed from 6:1 to 6:4, You can now fly your own airplane to travel between islands faster, and there is a "coming soon" gate in monster park, which will probably be for 4th job+. There are a lot more things, I just don't want to list them all.. Sounds like an aftershock caliber patch to me :D
2011-03-17, 09:21 PM
Anonymous Moose

Quote:

You can now fly your own airplane to travel between islands faster

Sweet. This patch is at least sounding like it has more good things to bring than bad.
2011-03-17, 09:34 PM
Bribery

Is Coma useless now, or am I missing something? :f6:

The new Drk skill looks exactly like Phantom Blow.
2011-03-17, 09:35 PM
Kalemora

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raph589

Party ratio changed from 6:1 to 6:4

If this is the case, good news for Bishops.
2011-03-17, 09:46 PM
kremechoko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalemora

If this is the case, good news for Bishops.

Yep, they can now sell leech again!

Ohwait :f2:

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