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+--- Thread: KMST Balance Patch (/showthread.php?tid=20758)
KMST Balance Patch - Takebacker - 2009-12-21
Stance improvement = <3
Anyone know what the % is now for stance?
I don't really see any point in having barrage's range increased. I never had a problem with it...
@ Corsairs: Corsair changes make a lot of sense. Interested to know the new durability of battleship. Also, with these updates corsairs are now the most insane zak fighters of all time.
@ Mages: Wow 10% increase. Fire arrow thing was so needed. Can't say explosion was buffed enough. A speed enhancement would do more than 10 measly base attack. >_>
@ Shadowers: They definitely got the long end of the stick this time. All of those changes are phenomenal. I was expecting a lowered cooldown for smoke shell though.
Can't wait for the rest of the updates!
KMST Balance Patch - Lozmaster - 2009-12-21
XBish Wrote:This tells me that we do need this buff. How fair is it that a MM with all possible buffs from other classes is still weaker than its fellow BM standing alone?
Bullpomegranate. Those calculations don't even take into consideration the extra damage from snipe. Let alone the fact that you have mobbing skills that FAR outclass bowmasters.
...You still hit 68% of a BM's damage, give or take, spamming strafe. + Snipe. + Possibly SI boost bringing it up to 80% +snipe.
Bowmasters best mobbing skill is BOMB ARROW. From second job. You have Freezing mob skills, pierce doing up to 850% to mobs+crits, vs 130% +crits.
Show me how THAT is balanced first, because ignoring every other skill to look at just 1v1 damage isn't how you balance a class.
KMST Balance Patch - Bribery - 2009-12-21
XBish Wrote:This tells me that we do need this buff. How fair is it that a MM with all possible buffs from other classes is still weaker than its fellow BM standing alone?
Perfectly fair. Marksmen have superior mob attacks/mob control skills. There's more to class balancing than equal single target damage.
KMST Balance Patch - Beaner - 2009-12-21
Lozmaster Wrote:Bullpomegranate. Those calculations don't even take into consideration the extra damage from snipe. Let alone the fact that you have mobbing skills that FAR outclass bowmasters.
...You still hit 68% of a BM's damage, give or take, spamming strafe. + Snipe. + Possibly SI boost bringing it up to 80% +snipe.
Bowmasters best mobbing skill is BOMB ARROW. From second job. You have Freezing mob skills, pierce doing up to 850% to mobs+crits, vs 130% +crits.
Show me how THAT is balanced first, because ignoring every other skill to look at just 1v1 damage isn't how you balance a class.
Snipe cooldown is what's BS, don't even go there. Besides I am all for giving inferno a 50% boost too. Make it worth putting points into and make strafe decent. Ill take 130% per arrow too.
No one said BM are perfect, but its stupid to consider skills from other classes to calculate your DPS. MM being weaker without si and stronger with sounds fair. Just like NL before and after getting se.
KMST Balance Patch - Takebacker - 2009-12-21
XBish Wrote:Snipe cooldown is what's BS, don't even go there. Besides I am all for giving inferno a 50% boost too. Make it worth putting points into and make strafe decent. Ill take 130% per arrow too.
No one said BM are perfect, but its stupid to consider skills from other classes to calculate your DPS. MM being weaker without si and stronger with sounds fair. Just like NL before and after getting se.
Inferno needs more than a 50% boost to make it useful.
The problem with SI and marksmen is that the speed cap is still faster (2).
KMST Balance Patch - Teppi - 2009-12-21
Greg Wrote:You're asking for too much. All they really need is a passive crit.
then what's the use of backspin stun and demolition stun and double uppercut stun?
KMST Balance Patch - Takebacker - 2009-12-21
Teppi Wrote:then what's the use of backspin stun and demolition stun and double uppercut stun?
What's the use of ACB stunning if paladins don't have stun mastery?
Just because stunning doesn't provide more damage doesn't mean them stunning is pointless.
KMST Balance Patch - Bribery - 2009-12-21
In regards to Shadower changes, do they improve their bossing DPS? I recall that the last skill updates didn't really improve their bossing DPS since the Assassinate + BStep combo didn't really improve. I don't know anything about how Assassinate works, so does that 4 second change provide a significant boost?
KMST Balance Patch - Lozmaster - 2009-12-21
XBish Wrote:Snipe cooldown is what's BS, don't even go there. Besides I am all for giving inferno a 50% boost too. Make it worth putting points into and make strafe decent. Ill take 130% per arrow too.
No one said BM are perfect, but its stupid to consider skills from other classes to calculate your DPS. MM being weaker without si and stronger with sounds fair. Just like NL before and after getting se.
Does not. Inferno with +50% still sucks monkey balls. That makes it what, 200%, and given how it's slower than bomb arrow, thats probably barely even with it
. I supposed i'd settle for it if both 3rd jobs got boosted strafe to 130%, so they'd be even with SI, but then it'd still leave the question of marksmen being 3~4 times better at mobbing than bowmasters, who are ~1.5 times better at 1v1.Quote:The problem with SI and marksmen is that the speed cap is still faster (2).I'm not sure this is a problem, xbows are normal(6), with booster and SI they still only reach 3 (or 2, is normal booster -1 or -2? lol)
KMST Balance Patch - Takebacker - 2009-12-21
Bribery Wrote:In regards to Shadower changes, do they improve their bossing DPS? I recall that the last skill updates didn't really improve their bossing DPS since the Assassinate + BStep combo didn't really improve. I don't know anything about how Assassinate works, so does that 4 second change provide a significant boost?
The dark sight delay reduction will make assassinate (slightly) faster, and the reduction on assassinates charge time will make it WAY stronger.
KMST Balance Patch - Greg - 2009-12-21
Just realized Venom's success rate will now be 50%. That's pretty significant...
KMST Balance Patch - Teppi - 2009-12-21
Takebacker Wrote:What's the use of ACB stunning if paladins don't have stun mastery?
Just because stunning doesn't provide more damage doesn't mean them stunning is pointless.
paladin only has one skill while buccaneer has multiple stun skills :f6:
KMST Balance Patch - FrozNlite - 2009-12-21
Haven't read the whole thread yet; I'll read it later.
But I'll just leave these initial thoughts here:
Bribery Wrote:-Mage
Fire arrow can now hit upto 4 monsters
Explosion base attack increased by 10 when mastered
Element Amplification's damange increased by 10%
That's an utter shit upgrade; I hope they add more.
Just so people understand why, I'll break it down.
1. 10% Amplification increase is the only decent increase. Currently the magic damage formula says my damage with max Paralyze and normal buffs (no Echo) is 40,258 - 48,778. With the increase, that damage would only rise to 42,558 - 51,565, which is so small of an increase that anyone can recognize it's not going to be getting ArchMages in on boss runs for "big DPS."
2. Fire Demon has the same base attack power of Fire Arrow, but hits 6 monsters. And attacks at the same speed. 'Nuff said on that useless update.
3. Even more useless is the Explosion upgrade. Yay for a vertical skill that does an extra 2k damage compared to Fire Demon/Fire Arrow, but is almost twice as slow!
I really hope they do more. I'm glad other classes got (what seems like) a lot of actually useful upgrades; these Mage ones? Not so much.
KMST Balance Patch - Takebacker - 2009-12-21
Teppi Wrote:paladin only has one skill while buccaneer has multiple stun skills :f6:
Apples are red and oranges are orange.
My point still stands. >_>
FrozNlite Wrote:That's an utter shit upgrade; I hope they add more.
Just so people understand why, I'll break it down.
1. 10% Amplification increase is the only decent increase. Currently the magic damage formula says my damage with max Paralyze and normal buffs (no Echo) is 40,258 - 48,778. With the increase, that damage would only rise to 42,558 - 51,565, which is so small of an increase that anyone can recognize it's not going to be getting ArchMages in on boss runs for "big DPS."
2. Fire Demon has the same base attack power of Fire Arrow, but hits 6 monsters. And attacks at the same speed. 'Nuff said on that useless update.
3. Even more useless is the Explosion upgrade. Yay for a vertical skill that does an extra 2k damage compared to Fire Demon/Fire Arrow, but is almost twice as slow!
I really hope they do more. I'm glad other classes got (what seems like) a lot of actually useful upgrades; these Mage ones? Not so much.
The fire arrow upgrade is only for 2nd/3rd job. You should know training a F/P in 2nd job with no mobbing skills is a pain in the ass. And by that i mean getting to 50+ so you can poison high level mobs and train faster than any other 2nd job class is hard as hell. Pretty obvious that fire arrow is already useless by 4th job.
It's already stated that this is only the beginning.
KMST Balance Patch - Bribery - 2009-12-21
Takebacker Wrote:The dark sight delay reduction will make assassinate (slightly) faster, and the reduction on assassinates charge time will make it WAY stronger.
Greg Wrote:Just realized Venom's success rate will now be 50%. That's pretty significant...
Wow then those are some awesome upgrades. I didn't think they were that significant at first. xD
I can't wait to see what else is coming up. I wonder if they're going to end up changing the magic damage formula, and I'm excited to see what Paladins get (hopefully they didn't forget about them
).Also, 2nd job I/Ls need to be updated considering that Fire Arrow is now way stronger than Cold Beam and Thunderbolt.
KMST Balance Patch - DrRusty - 2009-12-21
Bringing down the cooldown of assassinate might bring up shadower's boss damage depending on how they did it. If they "squeezed" the damage down, and some of it trickled into uncharged assassinate, then the boss DPS should go up.
KMST Balance Patch - byakugan - 2009-12-21
Same as Alloy, I would like some changes made to my job, the Sader/Hero class, so they are more fun to play with.
We were the combo warriors many years before the Arans were even thought off, so I find it absurd that after 4th job, we get to spam only one attack for the rest of the game.
- Change finishers (Coma/Panic) so they consume less orbs as you increase the skill level, ending with something like only 3 Orbs for a max Damage in 3rd job and 4 Orbs for max damage in 4th job. This is the easiest way I can think of to make these skills useful once again (if they ever were useful considering panic's unstable damage and comas stun being cancelled by the next attack)
- Fix the Panic so it can use its dark property once and for all. (Maybe turn it into a 10% chance of 1HKO just as Snipe)
- Change Shout's animation and increase its range.
- Take off Enrage's cool down time, or else, make it a party skill (I'd rather the first one)
For all warrior jobs:
- Change all the Buff Crash skills (armour, magic and power) so they can also cancel super buff on monsters (super def up, super magic def up) or decrease their stats (I.E: Magic crash decreases monsters and bosses magic defence)
I dont see these changes making heroes much more powerful than our other warrior counterparts, and considering Paladins are getting a massive buff soon, I wouldnt be surprised if they ended up being the strongest warrior job. Anyway, I just want panic and coma to be turned into useful skills so it is not a waste to use all my orbs up and sacrifice my DPS when I use one of these.
KMST Balance Patch - Beaner - 2009-12-21
BM, tell us what YOU think your class needs instead of taking down what makes MM fair.
KMST Balance Patch - Dual - 2009-12-21
Twilight Wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing an increased freeze time on ice-charge and a even better HH cooldown.
[COLOR="Green"]No. I don't give a pineapple about the amount of time stuff is frozen. It takes me 6 hits with my strongest attack to kill 1 monster in oblivion. I'm not going to freeze, switch elements, attack, switch back, freeze... that's just retarded. Paladins need a damage increase, and badly.
And HH has a cooldown of 20 seconds at max. If you're managing to kill 15 monsters with HH in less than 20 seconds in total movement time, including the 1-2 seconds of HH being cast, then you sir are a god.
I want Blast to be a single target skill, since I like it that way, but they need to increase its damage to be more useful. I'm even fine with ACB being weaker than Brandish, because it hits more, but it sucks that I don't even have a mob attack unless I have an element, which makes fighting monsters with a bunch of resistances very annoying. I want an increase in my damage, not my other skills. Training with HH seems gay to me because instead of actually fighting monsters, I'm just hitting them once and they die, no conflict, no anything. It's just far too boring.
tl;dr Paladin needs a damage increase on Blast so that normal Blast is ~90% of Brandish without elements, instead of ~7X%.[/COLOR]
KMST Balance Patch - Lozmaster - 2009-12-21
XBish Wrote:BM, tell us what YOU think your class needs instead of taking down what makes MM fair.
personally, I think it's fine as it is...But going from the position that either class actually needs changing, bar adding a new 4th job skill for mobbing that isn't as strong as pierce, to make up the 1v1 difference between the 2 classes, there isn't any easy solution. Either buffing inferno insanely, which is a horrific choice for existing bowmasters, given basically every bowmaster is going to have inferno at 1 or, [at best 21 to max its range, and those are a minority], or buffing bomb arrow, which is not possible for the simple reason it is a second job skill.