Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil)

Derp	0% DEF	10% DEF	40% DEF	70% DEF
Battle Mages:	3866%/s	3530%/s	2522%/s	1513%/s

Battle Mages. Only change was the adding Advanced Yellow Aura (-1 Weapon Speed), 180% Finish Blow (vs 145%), 840% The Finisher (vs 760%) and 1040% Dark Lightning (vs 1000%). While receiving a buff to their primary attack that is greater than the DPS increase for 0% DEF monsters between versions, their overall difference is smaller due to a significant portion of their damage coming from Teleport which was not affected.

I'll be compiling a vs 3 and vs max monsters later.

Derp	0% DEF	10% DEF	40% DEF	70% DEF
Revamped Evan	10574%/s	9725%/s	7180%/s	4635%/s

Also updated Evan table to reflect correct critical damages as Eliseo pointed out to me.

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

Derp	0% DEF	10% DEF	40% DEF	70% DEF
Battle Mages:	3866%/s	3530%/s	2522%/s	1513%/s

Battle Mages. Only change was the adding Advanced Yellow Aura (-1 Weapon Speed), 180% Finish Blow (vs 145%), 840% The Finisher (vs 760%) and 1040% Dark Lightning (vs 1000%). While receiving a buff to their primary attack that is greater than the DPS increase for 0% DEF monsters between versions, their overall difference is smaller due to a significant portion of their damage coming from Teleport which was not affected.

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Not at all unexpected based on glancing over the changes. They hardly buffed Battle Mages at all.

I hope and pray Nexon is aware of the ridiculous discrepancy they just created as, currently, Mages are even more pineappleed up than they were before when it comes to scaling.
I mean, hot damn, Evans do three times as much damage as a class they were just reorganize alongside?

Battle Mages are in serious need of a dedicated 1v1 attack. Hell, give them a version of "Enrage", call it "Dark Focus", and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Viaje

Not at all unexpected based on glancing over the changes. They hardly buffed Battle Mages at all.

I hope and pray Nexon is aware of the ridiculous discrepancy they just created as, currently, Mages are even more pineappleed up than they were before when it comes to scaling.
I mean, hot damn, Evans do three times as much damage as a class they were just reorganize alongside?

Battle Mages are in serious need of a dedicated 1v1 attack. Hell, give them a version of "Enrage", call it "Dark Focus", and call it a day.

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I personally don't care if they give them a dedicated 1v1, but since their skills hit up to 8, it should still be scaled to be appropriate for that damage bracket which it isn't as far as I can tell. Especially not when they're compared to the standard Evans have set with their higher level mob skills.

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

I personally don't care if they give them a dedicated 1v1, but since their skills hit up to 8, it should still be scaled to be appropriate for that damage bracket which it isn't as far as I can tell. Especially not when they're compared to the standard Evans have set with their higher level mob skills.

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I previously used to justify Battle Mage's low 1v1 by the fact that I was always under the impression that they were better mobbers.
Whether or not I was correct in this, I do not know, but, now that everyone and their mother is getting the ability to hit eight or more monsters, I can't even begin to fool myself into believing that.

The reason I suggest they get a dedicated 1v1 is simply because Nexon seems to have given up on balancing through "special talents", for lack of a better term, and moved towards making everyone a jack-of-all-trades.

Support-wise, I'm likely underestimating their Auras, especially since they're now stackable, but it looks grim.

On a side note, I don't quite understand why their upping the number of mobs everyone can hit. With the ways mobs are now, it seems like it'd be a rarity for anyone to hit that many targets at one time anyway.

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Originally Posted by Viaje

I previously used to justify Battle Mage's low 1v1 by the fact that I was always under the impression that they were better mobbers.
Whether or not I was correct in this, I do not know, but, now that everyone and their mother is getting the ability to hit eight or more monsters, I can't even begin to fool myself into believing that.
I certainly agree that I can't imagine other classes are only doing 3535%/s on mobs.

The reason I suggest they get a dedicated 1v1 is simply because Nexon seems to have given up on balancing through "special talents", for lack of a better term, and moved towards making everyone a jack-of-all-trades.

Support-wise, I'm likely underestimating their Auras, especially since they're now stackable, but it looks grim.

On a side note, I don't quite understand why their upping the number of mobs everyone can hit. With the ways mobs are now, it seems like it'd be a rarity for anyone to hit that many targets at one time anyway.

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Varies with map and range, but I've encountered plenty of areas where hitting up to 8 monsters was frequently feasible, and there are some monster park platforms that spawn with more than 6.

Their Auras are quite good, but the fact that any given Battle Mage will have all 3 active means that there's less reason to get more than one per party if another class is available (though previously, getting one for Yellow Aura wasn't that great either). I just don't feel that giving them a 1v1 would be very significant to their gameplay or help them significantly, especially when their mob skill appears to be on the weaker end.

Derp	0% DEF	10% DEF	40% DEF	70% DEF
Without Teleport:	3378%/s	3054%/s	2081%/s	1109%/s

Consider this table, as it is not very feasible to hit six targets with Teleport, and you can hit up to eight, which scales linearly, Battle Mages deal 8800%/s to eight, but they still suffer significantly from not having any defense reduction. This may be alleviated if they made The Finisher's defense ignore a passive, which is possible but just untested as of now.

Derp	0% DEF	10% DEF	40% DEF	70% DEF
35% DEF Ignore on Blow:	3378%/s	3167%/s	2535%/s	1903%/s

I'm going to do a runthrough with Evan on 3 and 8 monsters in a few to see if it's as significant a deficiency as I suspect.

I may have missed it, but what speed weapon do you have the Battle Mage using?

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Originally Posted by Viaje

I may have missed it, but what speed weapon do you have the Battle Mage using?

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Normal (6). Should it be Fast (5)?

I still don't get why the hell Nexon refit Energize into a 30 point skill. 20 point Energize with a new 10 point skill that adds vanilla def penetration. Or keep Energize as it is now [10 Max] and make a new 20 point skill that makes The Finisher activate like FA does.

At 30 Energize I'll hit DEF and MDEF cap without BA activated, nevermind ABA. Pointless.

@OT, did you factor in Twister Spin's buffed speed?

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT-Q0FDdE0E

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Originally Posted by Atuan

I still don't get why the hell Nexon refit Energize into a 30 point skill. 20 point Energize with a new 10 point skill that adds vanilla def penetration. Or keep Energize as it is now [10 Max] and make a new 20 point skill that makes The Finisher activate like FA does.

At 30 Energize I'll hit DEF and MDEF cap without BA activated, nevermind ABA. Pointless.

@OT, did you factor in Twister Spin's buffed speed?

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT-Q0FDdE0E

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There's no real way I can determine the exact speed of that. Looks about 600ms though.

Evan:

Derp	0%	10%	40%	70%
Single Target:	10574%/s	9725%/s	7180%/s	4635%/s
Three Target:	16236%/s	15180%/s	12014%/s	8848%/s
Eight Target:	42735%/s	39957%/s	31624%/s	23290%/s
Ten Target:	49549%/s	44594%/s	29729%/s	14864%/s

Three and Eight Target uses Blaze. Single is Illusion. From what I can tell, Flame Wheel's DoT data is bugged and I can't make heads or tails of how much it does. It has no defense ignore though so it does a lot less on higher defense.

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

Normal (6). Should it be Fast (5)?

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It would vary, really.

I know you aren't using Elemental Weapons, but those would be Fast (4).
Doomsdays would be a great Normal (6), which these numbers would represent.
Most of the end-game weapons are Slow (8), though there are a couple Slower (9).

I just asked out of curiosity over which spectrum these number fell into.
Part of me hoped you were using Slow (8). haha

...of course, Elemental Staves become slightly less superior for Battle Mages after this update since Yellow Aura will bring Normal (6) weapons up to Faster (3) while E.Staves are still capped at Faster (2).

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

Derp	0% DEF	10% DEF	40% DEF	70% DEF
Revamped Evan	10574%/s	9725%/s	7180%/s	4635%/s

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Whatever updates they give to Arch Mages, they better be damn good.

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Originally Posted by Kalemora

Whatever updates they give to Arch Mages, they better be damn good.

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Chain lightning hits 7 times, glacial chain hits 10 times, paralyze hits 6 times, and mist eruption hits 15 times...

I'm ready. :monocle:

BaMs are still pretty lackluster in %/s it seems. They obviously make up for it in support and tankability for magic attacks though. Buffs needed? Probably.

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Originally Posted by JoeTang

Evan:

Derp	0%	10%	40%	70%
Single Target:	10574%/s	9725%/s	7798%/s	7386%/s
Three Target:	16236%/s	15180%/s	12014%/s	8848%/s
Eight Target:	42735%/s	39957%/s	31624%/s	23290%/s
Ten Target:	49549%/s	44594%/s	29729%/s	14864%/s

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Whoah! That Single Target row is inaccurate, right?
I'm specifically looking at the 70% PDR.

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Originally Posted by Takebacker

BaMs are still pretty lackluster in %/s it seems. They obviously make up for it in support and tankability for magic attacks though. Buffs needed? Probably.

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The only thing about giving them credit for support is that Evans are supportive too.

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Originally Posted by Viaje

Whoah! That Single Target row is inaccurate, right?
I'm specifically looking at the 70% PDR.


The only thing about giving them credit for support is that Evans are supportive too.

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Evan:

Derp	0%	10%	40%	70%
Single Target:	10574%/s	9725%/s	7180%/s	4635%/s
Three Target:	16236%/s	15180%/s	12014%/s	8848%/s
Eight Target:	42735%/s	39957%/s	31624%/s	23290%/s
Ten Target:	49549%/s	44594%/s	29729%/s	14864%/s

Fixed it. Didn't double check since I had the correct values the first time and didn't notice I had made any changes to Illusion's check.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Viaje

The only thing about giving them credit for support is that Evans are supportive too.

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Yeah they're both supportive but in completely different ways, which is awesome. I think BaMs are supportive more for when you're alive, but evans are more supportive for if there's more risk of death. Obviously ideal if you have both, but that's more of a waste of attacker spaces. Still, evans are insane for damage now (both their own damage and damage for the expedition since imprint is so godly) so people wouldn't be so apprehensive about bringing one along.

I am happy...I just don't want to see what Arcana can do in this update...that will be quite the thing to see. She already puts most people to shame LOL

Evans have been down in the charts for awhile, so finally we are at least above some and I hope it stays like that. Arch Mages had their time to shine already.

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Originally Posted by Jerry-Boyle

Arch Mages had their time to shine already.

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Evans were already close to ams in dpm before this...

If anything this should indicate how much the other attacking classes will be buffed.

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Originally Posted by Abysseon

Evans were already close to ams in dpm before this...

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They were still better. F/P alone were 1100%/s higher and I/L were a tad bit higher. Not to mention infinity...Evans have nothing to compete with that and DoT damage. From my stance, legends should be stronger then ADVs since we(Legends)sealed the Black Mage ages ago. If adventurers could do it alone...no need for the existence of the legend type classes.

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Originally Posted by Jerry-Boyle

They were still better. F/P alone were 1100%/s higher and I/L were a tad bit higher. Not to mention infinity...Evans have nothing to compete with that and DoT damage. From my stance, legends should be stronger then ADVs since we(Legends)sealed the Black Mage ages ago. If adventurers could do it alone...no need for the existence of the legend type classes.

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Again, this issue boils down to class specialization. Should legends be better than Adventurers at every aspect? Should Mercedes completely outclass any other Bowman class, in DPS? That's not the case for Mercedes, unless Hurricane can hit cap, then RoI takes over. Should Demon Slayer completely outclass any other Warrior in DPS? Apparently that's the case, atm, because of how great Demon Slayer is compared to the other 3 Warriors. Then there's this revamp. What will it do? Will it make the 5 Legend classes (a couple unreleased) be the best at supporting and attacking? Is there a point to Adventurers if that happens?