Russt Wrote:The whole idea of certain types of strikes being stronger than others while using different weapons becomes flawed when the type of strike you actually do is randomized.

If you know that swinging is always more effective than thrusting (which wouldn't always apply to a real situation but it does here), why the hell would you thrust on purpose?

Findingns Wrote:Well, you're bringing up something that I haven't yet commented on. All that I've said thus far has been a response to what Opeth has said. I don't care what kind of boost MMs get as long as BMs have any sort of use and aren't reduced to being as worthless as they are in 3rd job. As it stands MMs are stronger than BMs and beat them in everything except for single target damage over time. If it were situation were flipped around and Rangers had the better formula and were better at mobbing then it wouldn't be a big deal, but that's simply not what is being proposed.

I'm not into accusing, and never will be. I do enjoy providing the truth though. My parents raised me this way. It's just who I am.

Russt Wrote:The whole idea of certain types of strikes being stronger than others while using different weapons becomes flawed when the type of strike you actually do is randomized.

If you know that swinging is always more effective than thrusting (which wouldn't always apply to a real situation but it does here), why the hell would you thrust on purpose?

Xaorath Wrote:If you take away Genesis from Bishops, but give Paladins holy symbol, the point of making a bishop, which only excels at holy weak monsters, when you could be a paladin which excels everywhere = ???

I agree that paladins need buffed up more and I think ultimates kind of defeat the purpose of elemental weaknesses, but be reasonable. Nobody would care to be a priest/bishop if paladins get our main buff and we lose Genesis.

Also, Assassinate already kills pretty much every non boss monster once it's maxed, so giving it a percent chance to do something that it already does pretty much every time would be pointless.

Xaorath Wrote:If you take away Genesis from Bishops, but give Paladins holy symbol, the point of making a bishop, which only excels at holy weak monsters, when you could be a paladin which excels everywhere = ???

I agree that paladins need buffed up more and I think ultimates kind of defeat the purpose of elemental weaknesses, but be reasonable. Nobody would care to be a priest/bishop if paladins get our main buff and we lose Genesis.

Also, Assassinate already kills pretty much every non boss monster once it's maxed, so giving it a percent chance to do something that it already does pretty much every time would be pointless.

bored4ever86 Wrote:Genesis was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel for bishops, we spend 2nd-end of 3rd doing crap dmg and being a support class at the mercy of how well of a party we could assemble to gain our meager scraps of exp off their exploits.... genesis makes bishops able to deal dmg much higher than our peers to kinda reward us for the hardships we've endured to get there

of course in these times getting to 4th job isn't that hard (pqs and leeching) but the originals (before we had a decent population of AM and Bish's) fit this idea quite well in that they didn't have anyone to get them to their genesis without the hardships

bored4ever86 Wrote:Genesis was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel for bishops, we spend 2nd-end of 3rd doing crap dmg and being a support class at the mercy of how well of a party we could assemble to gain our meager scraps of exp off their exploits.... genesis makes bishops able to deal dmg much higher than our peers to kinda reward us for the hardships we've endured to get there

of course in these times getting to 4th job isn't that hard (pqs and leeching) but the originals (before we had a decent population of AM and Bish's) fit this idea quite well in that they didn't have anyone to get them to their genesis without the hardships

this tends to happen in almost all mmorpgs that the weakest/support class gets the best endgame "reward" be it an awesome skill or great weap to increase dmg to them only or something along the lines that they start lowest on the totem pole only to end up as top dog for dealing with the position for so long

Cyanne Wrote:This thread isn't about changing 4th job as it is now, it's about discussing what 4th job should have been from the start. So it's not actually supposed to be put into practice (like sent to Nexon, etc.) but just a friendly discussion. Yeah I guess the thread title kinda implied the wrong thing, but the first part of the opening post covered that.

Also, with that 10 flying bosses thing, ultimates being spammed would cause a lot of strain on people's computers.

bored4ever86 Wrote:Genesis was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel for bishops, we spend 2nd-end of 3rd doing crap dmg and being a support class at the mercy of how well of a party we could assemble to gain our meager scraps of exp off their exploits.... genesis makes bishops able to deal dmg much higher than our peers to kinda reward us for the hardships we've endured to get there

of course in these times getting to 4th job isn't that hard (pqs and leeching) but the originals (before we had a decent population of AM and Bish's) fit this idea quite well in that they didn't have anyone to get them to their genesis without the hardships

this tends to happen in almost all mmorpgs that the weakest/support class gets the best endgame "reward" be it an awesome skill or great weap to increase dmg to them only or something along the lines that they start lowest on the totem pole only to end up as top dog for dealing with the position for so long

FrozNlite Wrote:Great discussion, but I still see it as a thread whining about how things are unless it actually had some purpose, i.e., taking some of these ideas and emailing them to Nexon. Surprisingly companies do read emails (even Nexon!), and so it wouldn't be a wasted thread if that was its original purpose.

Some of these ideas are ludicrous though. I especially laugh at all of the people who want ultimates removed or nerfed with a cooldown/damage reduction. First off, how many of you rely on an ultimate user to train a lot faster? Second, how many of you, regardless of if you train with an ultimate user or not, use 2x? The same friends I discussed in my first post, the late 19x people on Khaini, don't bother complaining about ultimates, etc., but adapt to what they're given and use them to their advantage. Now, by 19x, are they asking for 4x coupons or and overall increase in EXP of monsters? Hell yea. The fact that people, even with ultimates, STILL WANT an increase in EXP tells me that removing or nerfing ultimates would just be extremely stupid. Seriously, if you're a person who wants the most EXP/hr you can get, yet wants ultimates removed, you shouldn't complain for an increase in EXP.

And the last part is just lulz Cyanne. This is a freaking 2-D side scrolling game. It's not WoW. The last I checked, my friends playing WoW don't randomly dc for skill reasons or whatnot because they have decent computers and know how to play. If people are experiencing a strain on their computers due to mass ultimate use, then don't play the game. But don't tell other people how to play their characters because you refuse to upgrade a 10 year old computer.

P.S.: If ultimates caused an oh-so-bad strain on computers, then all of the All-Magician/FP/IL/Bishop runs that have occurred in the last year shouldn't have worked. The first successful All-ArchMage run in Khaini, as an example though, had 20 people using ultimates throughout the entire run, and the only dc was one person as they were coming into the altar, before ultimates were used.

MasPan Wrote:This is NOT the place to make accusations like that (especially without providing any evidence. As the Basilmarket saying goes, "SS or fake"). Further, this thread had nothing to do with hacking or leeching, nor did anything he said. Bringing that up in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with no supporting evidence reflects poorly on you and destroys any credibility your argument may have had.

Anyways, some kind of general buff to the "swing" weapons would be nice - BW, PA, Axe.

 Spoiler

His illegit pirate, spiritship

Dusk Wrote:pineapple you. I'd still rather have Inferno than Blizzard.

byakugan Wrote:Well, Back then, when I heard 4th job was being developed I thought about certain things I'dhave liked to see
Heroes:
Infinite combo: Use 10 orbs to cast for a certain time an infinite combo charge so that you can use panic and coma repeatedly without losing your orbs. Duration Time 3 mins. Cooldown Time: 12 mins. (This would revive the combo idea and make panic and coma useful once again).

byakugan Wrote:Well, Back then, when I heard 4th job was being developed I thought about certain things I'dhave liked to see

Heroes:
*Infinite combo: Use 10 orbs to cast for a certain time an infinite combo charge so that you can use panic and coma repeatedly without losing your orbs. Duration Time 3 mins. Cooldown Time: 12 mins. (This would revive the combo idea and make panic and coma useful once again =p).

*Enrage: Eliminate the cooldown time or make it a party skill as rage.

Don't flame. I'm a hero so i'd like to see improvements for my job as everyone lolz.

Opeth Wrote:You guys obviously don't know what you're talking about. As of now, Bowmasters are chosen over Marksman to go to Horntail. Guess why?

Marksman are supposed to outdamage Bowmasters in all circumstances, but they don't.

FrozNlite Wrote:Great discussion, but I still see it as a thread whining about how things are unless it actually had some purpose, i.e., taking some of these ideas and emailing them to Nexon. Surprisingly companies do read emails (even Nexon!), and so it wouldn't be a wasted thread if that was its original purpose.

FrozNlite Wrote:Some of these ideas are ludicrous though. I especially laugh at all of the people who want ultimates removed or nerfed with a cooldown/damage reduction. First off, how many of you rely on an ultimate user to train a lot faster? Second, how many of you, regardless of if you train with an ultimate user or not, use 2x? The same friends I discussed in my first post, the late 19x people on Khaini, don't bother complaining about ultimates, etc., but adapt to what they're given and use them to their advantage. Now, by 19x, are they asking for 4x coupons or and overall increase in EXP of monsters? Hell yea. The fact that people, even with ultimates, STILL WANT an increase in EXP tells me that removing or nerfing ultimates would just be extremely stupid. Seriously, if you're a person who wants the most EXP/hr you can get, yet wants ultimates removed, you shouldn't complain for an increase in EXP.

FrozNlite Wrote:P.S.: If ultimates caused an oh-so-bad strain on computers, then all of the All-Magician/FP/IL/Bishop runs that have occurred in the last year shouldn't have worked. The first successful All-ArchMage run in Khaini, as an example though, had 20 people using ultimates throughout the entire run, and the only dc was one person as they were coming into the altar, before ultimates were used.

holyforest Wrote:You know, I support both of you. Bishops have a right to get genesis, if they didn't have it, 'd say that more than 3/4 of all bishops would quit and delete their characters, causing them to be a "rare" class. This would cause chaos in the game since people wouldn't be having them in their parties. "Where's my HS?. Heal me, I don't wanna use pots..etc" It would get really bad.

holyforest Wrote:And as for arch mages, I agree that you guys should be more powerful. I was thinking that if nexon korea ever did anything, they could add another 200 attack to meteor shower and blizzard and reduce the attack time to genesis speed. Personally, I think this would even things out alot.

holyforest Wrote:I think shadowers should have a new multi-ranged attack like bucaneers.

holyforest Wrote:I think marksmen should have a combination of a hurricane pierce like attack that shoots multiple powerful arrows at a speed that's slightly less then hurricane.

holyforest Wrote:I think that corsairs should have just 1 party skill in exchange for hypnotize and that their attacking speed should be lowered to that of a sins.