Findings Wrote:Normal is a person or a group's preconceived notion of what is to be expected of someone. Existence isn't an act. You don't choose to exist. The differences between real life and the realm of anonymity are consequences and fear of having to face those consequences. The world can't be compared to the internet because everyone involved in the world isn't there intentionally, whereas everything you do online is your own decision, right down to even being on the internet in the first place. You control what you experience and can manipulate many things to work to your desire without encountering any real danger to your wellbeing. There are some risks, but they are nothing compared to those that exist in real life.

Based on logic, using your post, that would mean that people in real life do not try to hide their undesirable aspects in many ways. Why then, do people spend so much money on make up? To do their hair when getting out of bed, to dress as they want to represent themselves, to make their rooms, their actions, and their speech pointed in a specific point of view?

People manipulate others in real life. It's merely less do-able than online because it's easier to hide certain aspects, such as appearance, online.

Also, your definition of normal is skewed. If everyone fit your expectations, then you'd be living in a perfect world.

Findings Wrote:Pretty much. I mean, not exactly that there will be a punishment, but just the chance of there being one. That being reduced as much as it is online causes people to behave in completely different ways.

Completely different ways? As I said, why would someone go through the effort to act in a "completely different way"? To act not normal? To "not fit [your] perceptions of them?"

Findings Wrote:If the person that does it is stupid, what does it say about the person that gets fooled by it?

So don't get fooled by it.

Findings Wrote:Getting enjoyment out of harassing people online isn't much worse than getting enjoyment out of having people respect or care about you in an online video game.

How is harassment comparable to having someone to talk to in a nice way? They're in fact, almost polar opposites.

Findings Wrote:All games are a waste of time. It's the worst thing to do if you want to do anything productive.

Then why do you play?

Findings Wrote:That's simply not true. What you type doesn't make you who you are. You only show what you like about your personality online.

And in real life, what you say and do doesn't make you what you are either because you'd only show what you like about your personality in real life? Who WOULD like to show their negative aspects?

Findings Wrote:You can see a person's true colors through their facial expressions or through a candid reaction they have. Having a keyboard in front of you to relay how you feel allows for the message to be skewed. The people on facebook are only consistent with what they have to be. The website is set up for social networking, so it's different than a videogame environment of course. People still lie and cheat on facebook. Photos are taken at flattering angles. Comments are edited or deleted in accordance to what a person wants others to think of them.

If comments are edited and deleted, why don't the mods here on SouthPerry do it? Also, why don't people just burst out crying in real life, or express their true feelings to their bosses or their teachers, showing their negative aspects. Again, all people try to skew other's perceptions about them, it happens in both real life and online.

Findings Wrote:Many romances start as "friendships." I'm almost old. In a few more years I'll be an adult. I'm not ugly. The chances are very low, but yes, I would want to be friends with similar people. The problem is that there is no means of them actually proving that they are decent friends in a videogame. I've had enough experience with "friends" in real life running away and leaving me hanging at the first sign of trouble, and to think that someone who can quit the game at any time would be a loyal friend would be absolutely absurd.

I can see where you're speaking from because I've had similar experiences in my childhood as well. That however, doesn't prevent me from actually interacting with others. It doesn't matter whether or not you prove whether friends are decent. I don't care whether or not someone's loyal.

Findings Wrote:I am a liar, and I doubt anyone that plays Maple Story has gone their entire career without lying.

I'm one too. Aren't we all? However, although we all are liars, some people lie less often, some try not to lie at all.

Findings Wrote:The most successful people in the world are all great liars. The bold is true. I do differentiate between people that have good or bad intentions, but there are some people I like that I know are horrible people that I keep buddied regardless, simply because of how hilarious they are and what they can accomplish by lying.

I have trouble seeing where you're getting these statements. "The most successful people in the world are all liars...?
If you know they lie, why do you even talk to them? This question is one for real life, and not just directed at people you only know online.

Findings Wrote:All that I have ever used the internet for is entertainment and education. Everything related to Maple Story would fall in the entertainment category. It doesn't bother me that everyone lies to get what they want as long as I know that that is what they are doing and I'm not the one being tricked.

What else would you use the internet for? If "everyone" were lying, then you'd be tricked inevitably.

Heidi Wrote:Yes, I was there when you were discussing it on buddy list. I don't think I said much more other than I'd rather marry a good friend rather than some random. Only reason I would get married though is for APQ. I probably mentioned that too.

Yes you did.

Heidi Wrote:As for you questioning me saying that I do care, that is so stupid. You havn't even made it clear your definition of "caring" and that is going to vary from person to person. So, caring is agreeing with your 3 points that you made?

No. It's not about agreeing. You see, I'm commenting about whether or not someone cares, but that's not the true reason. The true reason of this thread is to see WHY you care, and the poll was merely to see the percentage of the population who do care. Statistical values are important in determining this because later when this thread dies off, I'll analyze the thread by counting the number of people who care only because of money, for friendship, for chat, ect, and make a breakdown of it. However, I have to include the "does not care" portion as that should be part of the pie chart. So so far, about 75% of the people care and of those 75% who care, they care about ___.

I'm not asking for people to agree with me, but I'm appalled at the % of the people who are in it merely for the apples. A vast majority of the 75% who do care are in it purely for profit and that bothers me. Thus, all the questioning of why they're concerned about it. Then people like findings start posting things about liars and online interactions with others which I find questionable in nature.

All I see this thread is, is you trying to make us all agree with you...

Heidi Wrote:As for what you should have told your friends, just "I don't agree with marrying for just APQ" would have done the job just fine rather than making a fuss

When questioning in manners like this, I don't want just my friends opinions because that would not be very representative of the population. I want to know the opinions of other people as well. Merely basing it off my friends, (as I said, people choose similar people to be friends), I would probably just be producing some very skewed statistic.

Retalion Wrote:I think there's something you're forgetting here, Harrison; You dont HAVE to be married. It's not like your only choices are:

1. Marry a girl character who's actually played by a guy
2. Marry some random stranger who I have no idea who they are
3. Marry a friend that might divorce me when they find a REAL online relationship

There's also this choice:

4. Just dont get married in game.

That's why I'm not married. I have option 4. However, getting married and not getting married are not really options in this poll because I'm asking about the attitude towards MS marriage, not whether or not someone wants to be married. If I were asking number 4, then I would have titled my thread that way.

Retalion Wrote:I personally chose 4 as it's just the simplest one. Am I perhaps losing out on a consistent income with apples? Perhaps in fact most likely, but Im fine with that; Im able to come up with mesos through other sources and Ive never been overly lacking in mesos, I dont need to get married to "stay afloat", so to say.

We make our money in similar ways, such as area bossing, whereas while you track three bosses, I only track one or two at a time, and I do it sporadically while you do it regularly. I wouldn't say I'm missing out on the consistent income, because it wasn't there to start with. Missing out means that an event is supposed to happen but you chose not to attend. Therefore, you merely just didn't invest in this form of apple merchanting.

Retalion Wrote:That being said, in return, I dont have to worry about some "girl" ending up being a guy, I dont have to worry about someone <maybe> divorcing me when they find a "real" relationship and I can keep my conscience clean in regards to "marrying a random".

Keep conscience clean? :f6:
How's a Maple Marriage affect your conscience?

Retalion Wrote:If you clean out all the other logistics and strip the issue down to it's basics, there are two reasons most people get married:

1. For the money you make through APQ
2. For the symbolic "relationship" it represents
3. (In KasuHitomi's case... it's Khoi right?)cause I can and it was free

Which I will make a pie chart out of when this thread dies off. I'll divide the 77% by your item one and two, and possibly a three for both. Your item three is merely the "No" option which at the moment is at 23%. And marriage isn't... free.

Retalion Wrote:If you're doing it for 1, which it seems many people are, it <technically> doesnt matter who you marry, granted they dont divorce you (in which marrying a mule would be perfect and maybe even better than marrying a friend/random because you can APQ twice and make even more money!). The issue isnt who you're marrying, it's more if they'll divorce you afterwards for whatever reason. Who it is, whether guy or girl, friend or random shouldnt matter other than the "potential divorce" factor.

I really should have worded my thread more clearly, as I said to Heidi:

Harrisonized Wrote:I guess the problem with my poll is that I worded it wrong. I should have made a poll saying what you would marry:
1) Homo relations?
2) Mules?
3) Random people?
4) Close Friends?
5) Older?
6) Younger?
And allow multiple choice.

because then I can further break down item 1 on your list.

Retalion Wrote:If it's for 2, then who you matter does indeed matter because you're doing it for what it stands for, not for the APQ. Sure APQs might be a nice bonus, but ultimately, you'd probably have done it regardless of if APQ was released or not. Chances are, you'd probably WANT to be divorced if it was to happen.

Yes, while although I was looking, there is a sparing number of people who actually choose to marry for this. That's why I was appalled at the general attitude of the people on MS.

Retalion Wrote:As for the whole "it's online, it's not real" thing, I see "online" as an extension of your actual personality; How you are online is how you <really> are when you know you can get away with it with little consequence. Though it's possible to be an ass both in a game and in real life, it's not very often you see a person who's an ass in game and super nice in real life and the ones that do fit this category usually turn out "not very nice" in real life either.

Thank you. That's what I was trying to say.

Retalion Wrote:That being said, I dont think online relationships should be looked upon with scorn, mainly because they CAN happen and Ive often seen online relationships that work better than real life ones. Really, the determining factor shouldnt be whether it's online or not, but rather how seriously it's taken and why people are doing it. Sure, online relationships are harder to maintain and keep up because you cant really do very much with it outside of the game, but I know many that do work. Just because this is a "game" and it's "online", that doesnt mean it's not real because the people you meet are definitely real and like yourself, they have feelings and emotions too.

It would appear the general public disagrees with this statement. A lot of people over on the Sleepywood thread think treat online interactions as a joke as well.

Retalion Wrote:Pps. Harrison, werent you married at one point or another? I seem to remember your character was married when I met it, lol.

Nope. I never married (heck when did I ever have more than $25 of NX because I keep only 1.5 at most, the rest invested in scrolls.) and I don't intend to. However, assuming I did intend to, I would need the three conditions to be met.

Findings Wrote:People try, but it's much more difficult to do.

Much more difficult is not impossible. Therefore, the argument does not work?

Findings Wrote:What is wrong with it? Yes, but it would only be a perfect world from my perspective. I never said there was any universal standard of what is normal.

Ok. So why are you speaking as though your standard is the universal standard? 'Normal' means universally accepted, as you said:

Findings Wrote:Normal is a person or a group's preconceived notion of what is to be expected of someone.

Findings Wrote:There isn't much effort required, and it's not for any of those reasons usually. People will behave in MS according to what will benefit them the most. Like joining a popular guild, then pretending that you <3 them so you can get a free zhelm and HT pendant or any other items. It's very easy to do and in any sort of pinch where people see what you're doing you can always justify it with the good old hypocritical "it's just a game" excuse. And people that behave this way in game could very well be some of the most productive people outside of it. Obviously that would have to be somewhat different or they wouldn't be able to support themselves.

As if you don't behave in real life for rewards? People don't flatter their teachers for the good grades? They don't pretend their someone's friend so they can receive help? They don't slut their bosses because they want a higher salary and position? The world revolves around reward and reinforcement. Therefore, you cannot use this to differentiate between online activities and irl activities because they happen in both situations.

Findings Wrote:Harassment and "being nice" to someone aren't opposites, it's what you have associated with them that makes you think they are opposites. Someone that is harassing you may only be doing it to get you to realize something and not for purely selfish purposes. Likewise, people may pretend to be nice just to get something that they want from you.

Since when does someone harass you in a positive way? Harassment is defined as "The making of unwanted and offensive advances or of offensive remarks or acts, especially by one in a superior or supervisory position or when acquiescence to such behavior is a condition of continued employment, promotion, or satisfactory evaluation." Therefore, when does someone "harass" you to make you realize something?

More likely, the harassment, as well as any type of interaction, is to evoke a response. Whereas "being nice" to someone is to gain a positive response, harassment is used to gain a negative one.

Findings Wrote:In real life you will show it whether you want to or not in your split second reactions. In bad situations where you're stressed out it will be hard to control yourself. You can hide it sometimes, but you will be vulnerable eventually.

And you can't be vulnerable on the internet as well? Look at so many of the things posted in the Pits of Hell. If you were around for Fiel's thread, you'd know that he has flaws too. Everyone has flaws which will inevitably show regardless of whether you're online or not. Therefore, again you cannot use this to differentiate online and irl.

Findings Wrote:The mods on South Perry delete informative posts that hurt people's e-feelings regularly. This forum isn't exempt from being a typical Maple Story forum full of BS. People do do what you describe if they are pushed enough. I've witnessed it many times in highschool. That's exactly what I've said all along, but the point is that it's much more commonplace online due to the ease of it and lack of consequences.

They do not. They only delete the things that are not socially acceptable. Otherwise, many of the things in the Pits of Hell would be deleted. The people who post BS get warned. Also, again, commonplace online does not mean that the real world is exempt from it. Remember again, that these are real people you're dealing with online, not CPUs.

Findings Wrote:I still interact with others despite meeting plenty of two faced people, just only in real life where I can actually hold people somewhat accountable. I'm not a hermit yet, though I'm not entirely opposed to the idea. Those things matter to me. I would prefer not to be friends with someone than to have an unreliable friend. I can understand if people prefer quantity over quality and don't care to see if they're good friends, but it's just not something I'm interested in.

From this post, what you're saying is that quality means having no friends at all and quantity means having friends?

Findings Wrote:I talk to them because, as you say as well, everyone is a liar. What matters to me is what they lie about and how they go about doing it. The successful people I'm talking about would be the politicians and businessmen that had to lie to a few people, fire a few people or even kill a few people to get to the seat that they have, and cover it all up or twist it a way that is contrary to the truth. Ted Kennedy comes to mind.

I did not say everyone is a liar. I said everyone lies at certain points in their lives, some more than others. Also, twisting it in a way that is contrary to the truth does not happen. Rather, the truth is given in a different tone, and the individual reading it infers something different. That's not contrary to the truth, rather, while it's implications may be different from the truth, it is still the truth.

1) An example would be that, let's say, someone just lied to you in order to prevent something from happening.
2) But then, you can say they lied to you to protect you.

If that was the purpose, then the implication would be different for both ways of speaking. This is why you often find these among politicians, though you still cannot claim them false. If all the politicians are liars, many of them would already be downed out of office.

Findings Wrote:No one can trick you if you see everything communicated to you as simple text and take none of it to heart. If someone does manage to trick me though, I try to pay them back. I realize that it would be my fault though, for taking something on the internet seriously.

You should take people on the internet seriously, because most of the time, they are serious... you're a VERY cynical person. No offense.