SaptaZapta Wrote:Some common examples:
- Animals do not, in general, kill their own kind, except in very specialized circumstances. With some species you see a specific "surrender" behavior which allows the loser to retreat instead of being killed.
- In higher species, mothers protect their young. Herd or pack animals protect the young collectively.
- Animals that compete tend to "fight fair". Peacocks try to impress mates with their tail feather display, and weaver birds do it with the nests they build, but you don't see peacocks tearing each other's tails out, or weaver birds breaking each other's nest.

Now, you might say, "Of course they would! a species that doesn't protect its young isn't going to last very long unless they spawn a *lot* of offspring".
Yes. That's evolution. Traits that contribute to survival, persist.
Oddly enough, many of the same "regulations for keeping order in society" that benefit human societies and make them prosper, do the same for animal societies. And so evolution selected for animals that adhered to such rules instinctively. Instinctively, meaning they don't "consider the right or wrong" of their actions, just as they don't consider the odds when deciding whether to fight or run. They do "the right thing" instinctively or they get weeded out of the gene pool.

By the time humans came around, they had, built-in, the same innate morality as apes do. They didn't need any gods to tell them Thou Shalt Not Kill or even Thou Shalt Not Steal. Look all over the world: native peoples in all the remotest corners all have the same basic codex: respect each other's lives and property, help each other and especially protect the young or weak. There are exceptions and variations, but basically it's all the same. And, according to Christianity at least, all their gods are man-made fakeries.

SaptaZapta Wrote:Some common examples:
- Animals do not, in general, kill their own kind, except in very specialized circumstances. With some species you see a specific "surrender" behavior which allows the loser to retreat instead of being killed.
- In higher species, mothers protect their young. Herd or pack animals protect the young collectively.
- Animals that compete tend to "fight fair". Peacocks try to impress mates with their tail feather display, and weaver birds do it with the nests they build, but you don't see peacocks tearing each other's tails out, or weaver birds breaking each other's nest.

KhainiWest Wrote:..You mean the chimpanzees that steal babies and eat them just because they have a sweet tooth?

KhainiWest Wrote:I'm sorry but both examples are on both sides of the fence. Religion established order because they had someone who was invisible, all knowing, and used to explain unfortunate circumstances that we couldn't understand at the time.

KhainiWest Wrote:An example would be sex, which the church made it so that we didn't act like monkeys and f`uck everything we want with no obligation to kids. Let alone concerns of disease and unwanted pregnancies families couldn't support.

Unleashing Wrote:A lot of insects/all spiders eat their mate after mating, that's some serious morals.

SaptaZapta Wrote:1) As with all evolving attributes, lower animals have less. (Also, the males don't resist. One might posit that they are sacrificing themselves for their young - since the females eat them to use their nutrients for the eggs - which is extremely noble behavior).

SaptaZapta Wrote:2) I'm not sure the human method of dealing with excess males (namely: war) is morally superior.

Unleashing Wrote:A lot of insects/all spiders eat their mate after mating, that's some serious morals.

Unleashing Wrote:Possibly, but it is still not moral. Animals react on instincts, not morals. Polar bears(the males) will kill their own young if given the chance due the chance of a free meal.

SaptaZapta Wrote:Some common examples: By the time humans came around, they had, built-in, the same innate morality as apes do. They didn't need any gods to tell them Thou Shalt Not Kill or even Thou Shalt Not Steal. Look all over the world: native peoples in all the remotest corners all have the same basic codex: respect each other's lives and property, help each other and especially protect the young or weak. There are exceptions and variations, but basically it's all the same. And, according to Christianity at least, all their gods are man-made fakeries.

Luxeraph Wrote:I didn't know we evolved (recently) from arthropods.

Luxeraph Wrote:iirc thats to reduce competition, also is less likely that the male of any species kill their own childs.

heronz Wrote:good story bro/sis, but that is fan fiction.

A moral code implies that something is right and wrong/ good and bad. in other words, if someone take a baby and slaughter it in front of people, on a whole we'll feel horror and disgust...a clear sense of wrong. But if someone takes a baby animal, and slaughter it before a group of other same animals, those animals may not even bat an eye. Animal may do things that seems to be infused with "noble" human characteristics, but that's only projecting ones feeling unto something else.

im not sure you actually understand what is coming out of your mouth.... you contradict yourself a lot as well as many fantasiful theory(much that i suspect are self made) that doesnt do anything.

DrRusty Wrote:I don't think the 10 plagues of egypt were very moral. Killing the first born child of every home, turning the river into blood, or infesting the whole place with locusts seems pretty barbaric imo.

SaptaZapta Wrote:This does not mean religion brought order from complete chaos, as religionists seem to think.

Also and as an aside, re: killing babies: Check the conquest of Canaan parts of the Bible, and see the moral things the Israelites are commanded to do to their enemies. By God. And the moral punishments He gives those who fail to obey his moral commands.

KhainiWest Wrote:...I guess you guys haven't seen the hypothesis that the 7 plagues were all caused by a volcano eruption and it was blamed on god's vengence to a corrupt king?

Quote:I wonder if you're aware majority of the 10 commandments are kind of the bill of rights. Food for thought.

DrRusty Wrote:If it was a volcano that caused the plague's of egypt then that would be misinformation on the Bible's part and it shouldn't even be in there. There also the theory that Moses didn't "part the Red Sea" but they crossed a shallow part of the river, during a drought, on a windy day.

modular Wrote:"atheists don't have morals" is about the worst argument i've ever heard for anything

Sardines Wrote:You don't inherit instincts. <snip>

Quote:Also you tend to misuse evolution a lot in lieu of natural selection. If I were to explain it, I suppose that evolution is the product of natural selection acting on genetic mutants. Natural selection is the weeding out process. Evolution is the progression of a mutant species by meeting the particular needs of the environment and producing viable offspring.