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+--- Thread: US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses (/showthread.php?tid=39575)
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Swerve - 2011-03-21
To anyone who feels like answering, do you think anything drastic will happen as a result of this? Perhaps policy reformation or a change in military recruitment?
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-21
Swerve Wrote:To anyone who feels like answering, do you think anything drastic will happen as a result of this?
Probably no more than what happened with Abu Ghraib. The administration will have a strike against it, but operations will continue as normal.
Although, the effects could potentially be greater than Abu Ghraib. This did happen in Afganistan (not US owned Guantanamo), and these were civilians (not supposedly suspected terrorists), we could potentially see more resentment of the US overseas and Afganistan and this would strengthen the Anti-Militaristic sediments in the US.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Link - 2011-03-21
Swerve Wrote:To anyone who feels like answering, do you think anything drastic will happen as a result of this? Perhaps policy reformation or a change in military recruitment?
If anything, probably just more preliminary mental screening. They can't really prevent anything if they tried. People can lie and hide everything about them and get in as long as none of that is on any official record.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Kalovale - 2011-03-21
Anonymous Moose Wrote:There is no law that binds us to Eosian, and no law declares Eosian is responsible for actions we take outside of this site (although he might be responsible to moniter some of the content we post and make sure that we do not perform illegal activities on the site, like rom sharing).
Obama on the otherhand is bound by law to be responsible for our troops.
Kalovale Wrote:Quote:WASHINGTONResponding to the ongoing nuclear crisis in Japan, officials from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission sought Thursday to reassure nervous Americans that U.S. reactors were 100 percent safe and posed absolutely no threat to the public health as long as no unforeseeable system failure or sudden accident were to occur. "With the advanced safeguards we have in place, the nuclear facilities in this country could never, ever become a danger like those in Japan, unless our generators malfunctioned in an unexpected yet catastrophic manner, causing the fuel rods to melt down," said NRC chairman Gregory Jaczko, insisting that nuclear power remained a clean, harmless energy source that could only lead to disaster if events were to unfold in the exact same way they did in Japan, or in a number of other terrifying and totally plausible scenarios that have taken place since the 1950s. "When you consider all of our backup cooling processes, containment vessels, and contingency plans, you realize that, barring the fact that all of those safety measures could be wiped away in an instant by a natural disaster or electrical error, our reactors are indestructible." Jaczko added that U.S. nuclear power plants were also completely guarded against any and all terrorist attacks, except those no one could have predicted.
I chuckled.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Justin - 2011-03-21
Kalovale Wrote:I chuckled.
XFD? Basically; "We're protected against everything we do know about, and nothing we don't know about."
Jeeze people, there's only so many security measures that can be taken and situations that can be accounted for. There is ALWAYS a chance for something fucked up to occur.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - kanevaldier - 2011-03-21
Swerve Wrote:To anyone who feels like answering, do you think anything drastic will happen as a result of this? Perhaps policy reformation or a change in military recruitment?
If anything at all happens, the soldier/soldiers involved will be court martialed and probably dishonorably discharged. I doubt anything beyond that will happen. The president may send an apology to the family of the dead person, but that is about it. Unless the opposing government demands more.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - MasPan - 2011-03-21
kanevaldier Wrote:If anything at all happens, the soldier/soldiers involved will be court martialed and probably dishonorably discharged. I doubt anything beyond that will happen. The president may send an apology to the family of the dead person, but that is about it. Unless the opposing government demands more.
Actually, they're likely to be thrown in Leavenworth along with the majority of Americans that commit large-scale military crimes.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - kanevaldier - 2011-03-21
MasPan Wrote:Actually, they're likely to be thrown in Leavenworth along with the majority of Americans that commit large-scale military crimes.
That is also a possible outcome.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Hazzy - 2011-03-22
Guys, don't feed the troll. He's a lot like a bad itch: Ignore him and he will go away.
As for the topic: Yes, our soldiers are douchebags. What else is new?
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Rick - 2011-03-22
I have reason to believe Kanevaldier and Anonymous Moose (despite being the OP) have not even read the article. These guys are facing life imprisonment and maybe even the death penalty, so this goes a little further than a dishonorable discharge.
And to Anonymous Moose's next post, nice strawman dude.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - kanevaldier - 2011-03-22
Rick Wrote:I have reason to believe Kanevaldier and Anonymous Moose (despite being the OP) have not even read the article. These guys are facing life imprisonment and maybe even the death penalty, so this goes a little further than a dishonorable discharge.
You would be wrong. I have read the article. The death penalty or life imprisonment is something that is possible "if" convicted. It is likely that they will get a plea bargin for a lesser penalty.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-22
More information for those that are interested:
Quote:U.S. army forced to issue an apology over 'trophy' photos of soldiers grinning over bloodied Afghan corpseshttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368314/German-newspaper-publishes-suppressed-photos-U-S-soldiers-posing-partially-naked-Afghan-corpse.html#ixzz4xAe9Esv1
Commanders in Afghanistan bracing themselves for public fury and possible riots
German newspaper Der Spiegel, which obtained the photographs, said there are thousands more showing other victims
Outrage: Images of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners inside Abu Ghraib prison sparked waves of anti-U.S. protests around the world when they were published and it is feared the new pictures published in Der Spiegel will do the same
And it looks like I am not the only one comparing this event (under Obama) to the Abu Ghraib travesty (under Bush).
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Erebus - 2011-03-22
Anonymous Moose Wrote:More information for those that are interested:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368314/German-newspaper-publishes-suppressed-photos-U-S-soldiers-posing-partially-naked-Afghan-corpse.html#ixzz4xAe9Esv1
And it looks like I am not the only one comparing this event (under Obama) to the Abu Ghraib travesty (under Bush).
No one (should) blames Bush for Abu Ghraib though -_-
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - KhainiWest - 2011-03-22
Erebus Wrote:No one (should) blames Bush for Abu Ghraib though -_-
Don't bother. He's not understanding how the chain events occurs. It isn't, Someone does something bad->President didn't do anything to prevent->President's fault.
The only responsibility is the punishment, which ultimately isn't really the presidents decision, just whether if he approves of it or not. No matter what administration goes to office this will happen as long as were in war, people lose their minds, their dignity, and truly their humanity. You have too in fact. That's something psychological, not leadership. Blaming the administration is just ignorant, simple as that.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - ImagineAll - 2011-03-22
MasPan Wrote:[color="#cc8899"]He is responsible for their actions yes - military personnel are, in a sense, representatives of the United States, and their entire chain of command, all the way up to Obama, is responsible for their actions. A soldier killing a foreign civilian could reasonably be grounds for war, depending on circumstances, regardless of whether the soldier is acting of their own accord or under orders.
However, these soldiers were rogue, acting of their own accord in blatant disregard for orders or morals. While Obama is responsible for their actions, he is not at fault, nor to blame for them. However, the burden of dealing with their repercussions does fall on him.
While he is responsible, he is not to blame.[/COLOR]
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Moonlapse - 2011-03-22
Erebus Wrote:No one (should) blames Bush for Abu Ghraib though -_-
Bush thinks he himself is somewhat responsible.
The sensible thing for Obama to do is apologize on behalf of the United States, like Bush did for Abu Ghraib.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-22
DustBunny Wrote:Don't bother. He's not understanding how the chain events occurs. It isn't, Someone does something bad->President didn't do anything to prevent->President's fault.It has already been established by Mas Pan that the President is legally responsible for preventing these attrocities. It has also been well established that I never once said "this is obama's fault." I only said that as Commander and Chief that he is responsible (which is not only an opinion, but also the law).
If you've got a problem with this, then you should probably be complaining about the Geneva Convention.
Quote:No one (should) blames Bush for Abu Ghraib though -_-Abu Ghraib is withing one of the Articles of Impeachment against Bush (unfortunately Bush was too popular and Pelosi lied when she promised to go in and get Bush Impeached).
http://www.impeachbush.tv/progress/dk_aoi_bush/aoi_xviii.php
Quote:In violation of the Constitution, US law, the Geneva Conventions (to which the US is a signatory), and in violation of basic human rights, torture has been authorized by the President and his administration as official policy. Water-boarding, beatings, faked executions, confinement in extreme cold or extreme heat, prolonged enforcement of painful stress positions, sleep deprivation, sexual humiliation, and the defiling of religious articles have been practiced and exposed as routine at Guantanamo, at Abu Ghraib Prison and other US detention sites in Iraq, and at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. The president, besides bearing responsibility for authorizing the use of torture, also as Commander in Chief, bears ultimate responsibility for the failure to halt these practices and to punish those responsible once they were exposed.
On the record, there aree 35 Articles.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Corn - 2011-03-22
Anonymous Moose Wrote:It has already been established by Mas Pan that the President is legally responsible for preventing these attrocities. It has also been well established that I never once said "this is obama's fault." I only said that as Commander and Chief that he is responsible (which is not only an opinion, but also the law).
If you've got a problem with this, then you should probably be complaining about the Geneva Convention.
Abu Ghraib is withing one of the Articles of Impeachment against Bush (unfortunately Bush was too popular and Pelosi lied when she promised to go in and get Bush Impeached).
http://www.impeachbush.tv/progress/dk_aoi_bush/aoi_xviii.php
On the record, there aree 35 Articles.
Of course he's legally responsible but you have to understand no US President in the frigging world could've prevented that.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - KhainiWest - 2011-03-22
I'm sorry but what are you taking me for? Even a 5th grader has the ability to establish what was meant by maspan vs what was meant by you.
Anonymous Moose Wrote:It has already been established by Mas Pan that the President is legally responsible for preventing these attrocities.
Which we established and you have yet to concede.
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Looks like the Obama Administration has changed nothing from the time of Bush.
This supports your indirect blame by the administration which has done absolutely nothing to get this effect. It's his responsbility to deal with it, he nor any administration, and only can apologize for them, as he had no indirect impact towards any of those soldiers, orders or ortherwise that led to that. In fact the administration is clearly against it.
Anonymous Moose Wrote:It has also been well established that I never once said "this is obama's fault." I only said that as Commander and Chief that he is responsible (which is not only an opinion, but also the law).
Once again,
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Looks like the Obama Administration has changed nothing from the time of Bush.contradicts the logic you are trying to use in order to back your statement up, which you were promptly educated.
US Soldiers Pose With Dead Civilian Corpses - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-22
Corn Wrote:Of course he's legally responsible but you have to understand no US President in the frigging world could've prevented that.
I'm not so sure about that. If we didnt jump into a couple illegal wars, then we probably wouldnt have foreigners to torture. Step 1 to prevention would be to limit war (something Bush and Obama have made no attempt to do). Step 2, would obviously be to consistantly order your Generals and higher level officials to not accept torture and inhumane acts (something Bush did the opposite of, he ordered torture) and order them to constantly remind all lower level officials.
Next, it would be important to properly screen all applicants. If you find that an applicant is unfit and immoral, then dont accept them into the Armed Forces.
Of course, these are just a few small things, and also I should mention that the entire responsibility is not only put on Obama. The responsibility is on all commanding officiers. The fact that these events occur means that there is a clear flaw in the system.