And I'm sure something bigger and better than Mikhail is just around the corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllegallySane
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And I'm sure something bigger and better than Mikhail is just around the corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by IllegallySane
I watched the video and I read most of this thread, and I can see where you can say maplestory is a victim of power creep. But really it isn't Nexons fault. Take their events, most times its good stuff for low levels but later you have to upgrade. Or its an awesome equip but it expires. Hell look at the maple weapons it took them 7 years to come out with one that is 120+. That's not power creep that's nexon fighting power creep.
That said, power creep in this game exists because of the hackers making godly gear for everyone. Every new Item every new boss is killed and godly versions of things that are supposed to be rare gear is all over the place.
http://i.imgur.com/fIet3.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
...no.
A fitting name for when you post, but this is...Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Pretty much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotosound
Grats, you just proved that you have no idea what Power creep even is.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Back to the drawing board, sir.
The reason a lot of event items suck for higher end players is because the events are designed to allow lower leveled players to participate. MapleStory has a high character turnover rate (largely because of the insanely steep leveling curve and the lack of any real endgame), so in Nexon's interest to provide low level content that everyone can participate in. The event items are hardly ever relevant to permanent player progression, which is where power creep is an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
They suck because they expire after like 3 days :f3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk
That's how they suck, not why they are designed to suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
yes
if you think it it must be right, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by IllegallySane
having old items worthless because newer things are more powerful and much better and faster. How old is the time traveller medal or VIP weapons? Not new but some of the better gear in the game. Only being superseded by 130 and 140 gear. You think hackers mass duping pinks and ws then gms making every weapon pink is Nexon's fault? Older weapons would still be in use if those scrolls didn't exist. Name some content that is outmoded in maplestory. People still normal zak and ht even though their is chaos. I kill both because I can. maybe your thinking pqs. Well yes they are dead but isn't that because of LKC party play and the fact that it's so much easier to level thanks to 24 hour leech. Try looking past your hate of all things nexon and really see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
And maplestory now has more High levels then ever, but not one event aimed at high level characters. Levelling is so easy most people can get to over one hundred in a day. Turn over doesn't matter if everyone can get to 150 in 3 days, a week at most. Besides some event items don't suck like the purple witch belt, which only got passed over when the rising sun stuff came out. I say Nexon does a good job handling the power creep that was handed their way but hey I actually play the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk
Handed their way?Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Who is it that keeps releasing classes that are more powerful than any before them, and then "revamping" the old classes to match?
Who is it that keeps creating equipment sets that have higher and higher base stats and set bonuses?
Who is it that keeps releasing new and more powerful scrolls and scrolling aids (wards, etc)?
Who is it that keeps adding more equipment slots?
Who invented potential, and keeps adding more tiers and lines to it?
Hint: it's not the hackers.
>is proven wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
>gives bad ratings to people who pointed out he was wrong
>continues to be wrong
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...x422-53713.gif
So tell me, who made the scrolls exist in the first place? Hackers only duplicated them and most players exploited a tedious glitch. I don't recall hackers having the power to create item's, they found an exploit that could pull items such as the smiling masks out of the data and create them, but not create random scrolls. I mean why would they limit themselves to only 5 stats if they could create new scrolls with 9000 stat improvements?Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
To the point, it's nexon's responsibility to regulate the game, it's nexon's responsibility to remove said exploits or take action to limit them. Bottom line is, nexon acted irresponsibly and ignored the problem, I assure you it was reported, a lot, but they simply disregarded it. Those scrolls wouldn't be a standard if nexon enforced regulation of their TOS.
After reading that you put two and two together I hope. Nexon's response to these weapons is to simply create BIGGER BETTER ONES to compete with the broken ones that they allow to be circulated. DISREGARDING all of that, you can still buy that power, with or without the hackers for a big chunk of change, like $300. Nexon still has not taken proper action to limit this, in fact they encouraged it by hosting events that made those scrolls cheap, hell even made gm scrolls droppable by accident. Remove them? Nope, they just stopped it and let the players who hoarded them benefit the most off of it.
Go look at any "training" guide, you'll see maybe a dozen maps suitable, now go look for every map in maplestory. Sure you could go through the pain of training at zombies at level 80 again, for hours and hours to gain 10%, or maybe gobies for an oustanding 15% in an hour, or you could go to aliens and level 6 times in that same amount of time. How about mushmom, how often do you see her anymore? Jr balrog? Crimson balrog? When was the last time you did ludi maze pq, or did a party train at ludibrium? How many characters did you need to go to do vikings? Grims? How about the fact one class can take every party skill in the game, rendering adventure classes even further useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
You know why you still regular zak? Because there exactly isn't a lot of expedition bossing, maybe half a dozen at best, and it feels good to know you can solo it, that challenge is completely depleted because of power creep. I doubt anyone can do it for profit anymore considering karma of scissors and zakum hems are unnecessary when you can get to 120 in a day and a half.
What is the difference between something you can do at level 180 and 200? Your most valuable skills are maxed out by 185, latest, maybe 190 if you consider some buffs. You're looking at 100 AP and an inferior mount to the legend classes. That's what players mean by high level content, all they do is solo bosses for experience now, maybe do some LHC parties, but mostly boss for the profit. I know players who lives run around that expedition clock, or the toad boss. There is no real reward of getting to 200 besides some level of accomplishment, which fades out after maybe 2 weeks to a month. Then you realize your character can be stronger if you make 8 different characters with link skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
It sounds like you haven't been hit with that "Wow this game really sucks" moment yet. You haven't been hacked, and you haven't reached the top tier yet, and once you look down from that mountain top, you see how worthless your effort was, because what you can do, is only a minute faster than someone 20 levels below you. And you've been facing the same half a dozen bosses since level 140. Most you can solo and make a small profit, assuming you can get a store up, pay for the karma's and/or have room to even pick up all the loot.
One of the reasons why I felt pomegranates wouldn't contribute much to the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotosound
I think any sort of system that gives people a psychological notion to agree/disagree with a person is inherently risky, but can also be beneficial. The pineapple system is the same, just in a generally more-positive way. People can still be misled to believe someone with a pineapple next to them is automatically right just as much as someone with a pomegranate can be viewed as wrong. The system is meant to be a guideline, not a be-all-end-all. As such, use it as a tool, and notice where people [mis]use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanny
New things must come into the game or the game dies. Yes some of them are stronger but they are also a much higher level and if there wasn't a bunch of hackers or people using hacked duped items those equips gears would not be so common. And I didn't say power creep doesn't exist I said nexon is doing a good job handling it. And yes the hackers are the cause of most of it. take vss for example. same shoe over the years but it went from 0 att to 38 now or more, and not because Nexon is doing it. They made what 3 events in the 7 years gms has been out to put attack on shoes but there are people with stacks of hundreds.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaptaZapta
Actually has to say something to proven someone wrong. And if I give you a bad rating because you gave me a bad rating I'm childish right. Or maybe the bad rating because you didn't post anything useful or on topic just some stupid picture. Wait you did it again gg. This is my opinion, opinions cannot be right or wrong just stated. I state mine and stand by it and will argue for it. When you state an opinion I will gladly debate you on it. So till you have an actual opinion on what I said I will ignore you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotosound
So, its Nexon's fault that they provide an event or two that gives a rare chance at a scroll which is then duped to hell. Hackers must have no will power because because they are powerless to dupe.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
Yes it is, but some responsibly falls on the players. If they didn't create a giant cash cow for hackers then there wouldn't be so many hacks. Its all part of I want to have max damage because this guy has max damage, so I'm going to buy attack Vss, mask and ears. Would those items exist if there were no hackers? The answer is no. Older gear would still have a place in maplestory if people didn't have access to broken scrolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
Did I say power creep didn't exist? No, I said Nexon handles it nicely, So tell me what bigger better ones are you refering to? The empress set? So that clean is better then hacked gear now. Wait no it's not. Its one of the hardest bosses in the game, its drops should be good. Its drops should be awesome. What's wrong with that? You spend loads of hours training and scrolling gear to get to the point where you can kill the bosses with your friends, and you get rewarded. There is nothing wrong with that. Now if empress was the same level as zak dropped the same books and the emp gear THAT would be power creep. You go through all these bosses and you get to the end game where the best gear is, surprise surprise. Thanks to hackers everyone has this gear and that is not nexon's fault, it's like blaming a woman because she was raped because she was asking for it. (I know that statement was wrong and bad ban me for it if you wish but it actually fits the topic and is completely relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
The funny thing is I do all those things. I don't go to popular training places. I don't need to be a high level because I know that nexon has NOTHING in the way of content there. If I want to train quickly for a link skill I go to NLC like everyone else but really if I'm actually going to main a character I do its quests. I do all the quests in vic then to orbis etc etc. Why go to aliens when the stories are much better elsewhere. And once again because you didn't read it. I didn't say power creep didn't exist I said nexon handled it nicely. You ask about these bosses and things well I'll give you an example. I was doing the bounty hunter event, killing those mobs in kft I saw people training there. Not hackers, not bots, not hunting the bounty hunters actually training/questing there.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
As to pqs they were revamped for better rewards and exp and they would be used except nexon (at the behest of the players) kept it party play, so pqs are dead and LKC leech lives. No party play hackers and pq's would be used.
As for the one class can take every skill in the game, I have nothing to say to that. You got lucky enough to get them grats. Must have cost you a lot. If you believe that a class can be useless maybe you should examine why you play the game. Power isn't everything. I play a warrior for fun, because I like standing toe to toe with monsters and hitting them with big spears. If you play a class just for the damage it deals maybe its time to quit. And if you don't even play maple why are you even here?
I agree I wish they would take timers off and buff the bosses. Big bosses shouldn't be soloable or soloable easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
lol damage and profit, what hollow reasons to play the game. I play it for being with my friends. We get on skype and spend hours fking around. Some of the best times I had were going to a boss and everyone dieing and laughing about it. I'm not in it for damage and profit, I could care less how much damage some one does as long as they are not an asshat in game.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
When does that hit? Around level 200, well been there and i'm going to be there again soon. On two of the worse dps/dpm classes in the game. Ask me if I care that I don't hit 999k 5 times. I'm actually ok with maplestory it doesn't suck if you don't cheat to get places, but hey I like challenge. Here is something you can try. Play maple in a new world. Don't buy hacked duped crap, gather people around you who don't buy hacked duped crap and work together to take down big bosses. It's the way the game should be played and because people constantly break it, it can't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiWest
My god what a wall of text.īthis doesn't even require that much debate. There is power creep in MS, and its Nexon's fault. Even that part of it injected by hackers is Nexon's responsability as its their duty to keep that from happening.
Pretty much this but let me addQuote:
Originally Posted by SaptaZapta
-Who is it that adds new monsters which give greatly higher rewards, rendering the previous one obsolete?
-Who is it that makes new bosses so strong that in other to beat them you either need the best strategy and a full expedition of people or throw thousands in game to become strong enough?
-Who is it that keeps adding new content and forgets about old content (except for PQ) making previous one useless?
and so on.
Look around at videos of the newer classes destroying CZak in less time than it takes me to kill Pap.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Those people aren't using hacked gear. They are using the skills Nexon gave them, and the gear Nexon made available, through lots of NX. KMS doesn't have 38 attack VSS or any of that other hacked and duped crap. All their power creep comes from Nexon, and Nexon alone.
The correct answer is so obvious [since everyone else has said it] that I shouldn't have to do anything more than call you a moron, which others have also done. It's not an opinion when you say that hackers cause power creep; that's stating what you believe as a fact, and it's been proven wrong. Your incessant bickering over something that should not even be an issue is annoying and unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Also, I still hold to the adage that "a picture is worth a thousand words." Your thousand words are vapid and off-topic; mine are summed up in simple pictures. If you actually had something worthwhile to say, we would've listened to it. Instead, you keep adding useless drivel to something that shouldn't even need explaining. Please, move on; you have nothing to offer to this discussion.
EDIT: I could also mention how hard it is to decipher what you're saying because, frankly, your English and logic are both terrible. Whether that's your fault or your own upbringing I don't care, because you're bringing this upon yourself. Just look at this:
You said that in response to someone who complimented your name and merely agreed with me. "If you think it it must be right, right?" Did you mean to say, "If you think it, it must be right, right?" as in, "If you think something is true, then it must be, right?" Even still, how in the heck does that apply to ANYTHING that person said? Instead of doing the right thing, which would've been asking, "How am I wrong? Would you care to elaborate?", you started flaming us and acting like you were right no matter what, using dismissive arguments as you went along. That's not how you should carry yourself on ANY forum, or in ANY situation. If you listen more than you talk, you just might learn something.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
I'm sorry if English isn't your first language, or if you honestly don't know how to explain yourself, but in continuing to post nothing but argumentative, meaningless chunks of text, you're only digging yourself deeper into your own demise. I'd suggest you take this as an opportunity to learn and come better prepared next time, more prepared than, "I watched it and it was wrong and anyone who says otherwise obviously is childish and against me." I'm not against you; I'm against your lack of logic and comprehension.
If they were aware of the problem then they wouldn't rehost events to allow us to get the scrolls and clean up the mess from the previous exploits. The latter two being nexon's fault, yes, an exploit existing is nexon's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
White scrolls were never event earlier, shoe attacks were in nearly every "gacha box" event since 2010. So yes, it is nexon's fault by not controlling the issue. How can you blame hackers when nexon endorses it. They are aware that the items were hacked, they were aware that people were getting scrolls through glitches or exploits, but did nothing to regulate it. That is a fault of the company not the hackers. Hackers maybe the cause, but hackers aren't suddenly untouchable, they were just ignored and they took advantage of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Find me a game with no hackers. Go on, find one, after you find one, tell me how the company prevents hacking. You're crying about the sportsmanship of the community but it's irrelevant and a retarded argument. You're no better than extremists blaming the west for all their problems. Go back to the nexon forums(I know you frequent there) if you want to take the same stance as someone as blind as Hime. Do you think we would have sports if we didn't have some type of method to enforce the rules? Or are you still in this silly delusion that the ultimate problem is people who cheat destroy the game.
Bottom line, and this might be hard to wrap your head around, everyone tries to find an efficient way to be successful at something, sometimes this is through questionable methods, including cheating. It's the administrators responsibility to disqualify and regulate the participants. You think the game would be in such a disarray if nexon shut it down for a week and weeded out these exploits and stopped them in a timely fashion? No, absolutely not. No, nexon's response is to create stronger classes, tradeless equipment, and make you rebuild from scratch. It wasn't until recently that they started heavy regulation of the game, which is why it's slowly recovering. It's retarded to just put the blame on hackers and call it an end to the discussion.
Are you referring to the same drop's that were in like 8 different events that allowed you gain them without defeating the boss? Or the one that can be solo'd since 2011, some even 2010?. Yeah really difficult. See, your in-game experience reflects your inexperience.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Hackers started making perfect gear in like 2008, nexon responded with potential, which blew up at least 10% of year gear. Then they added lines, then they added level caps for each tier, now they have nebulites, now we have up to what 20 star enhancements? They aren't resolving the hacker problem, they are releasing cash shop related items that might as well be labeled "Play as strong as a hacker without the risk of being banned".
...This analogy is retarded. You want a proper one? It's like you're blaming a bunch of 8 year olds for stealing when the 12 year olds told them it's okay and the cops persistently ignore it thus never are shown why it's wrong. "It's okay to buy hackers gear, you didn't hack it and you're never banned for it!". Nexon allowed it to be a market, there was no consequence for participating besides being inferior to every player.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
So how is that good management of power creeping when all end game content is only challenging to those below 180? excluding pink bean/empress. Oh wow, 2 bosses. I doubt you even know where crimson balrog is, let alone mushmom.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
You mean the ones that aren't glitched right?Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Well I played for nearly 7 years and have never seen an additional soul in KFT while I was there unless I was in servers like broa/scania/bera in chan 1-3. I doubt you could tell me half the stories of maple, because most of them are a mixture of prebigbang and post big bang, some of them contradictory. Or I could be ya know, intelligent, and just read what Isaac posted ages ago where he rationalize all the stories before big bang lmao. OR should we go refer to cwk? Yeah that was a great method for managing power creeping, nuking it and releasing monsters 10x better than jesters lmfao.
Because they are the most inferior of all options. Considering, as we will refer again, back to where nexon mismanaged their game since 2007, has created such a gap between made equipment and the materials to make it (aka scrolls) that it's not worth doing. No one will buy your 10% overall when thers 8 different ways in cash shop to get the same result for $50.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
Lucky? Seriously dude, how does nexon's ass taste. It's such a shame people like you exist, otherwise maplestory would have been fixed for everyone ages ago. You keep saying nexon is doing the right thing but you clearly are blind and/or in denial of how piss poor the company is. This is southperry.net. It's an extraction website, it isn't specifically for maplestory. I played for fun, I played to be able to efficiently boss and spread my wealth to my friends and guild. I made it, and I got hacked because of the exploit on nexon's incompetency, which was later admitted to be their fault, only to be ignored for a year, then rewarded worthless items. In fact they gave me scrolls that possibly would blow up the replacements, when at the time, there were scrolls that did not have a failure rate. So I did the adult thing and dropped them. I refuse to play any games under their management, they all turn out to be ran by hackers, black markets and do everything in their power to half ass everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
The players don't want more classes, there's a constant formula. Release class that has all the benefits of all the other classes, give it a significant DPS difference, let them play it for 6 months, release a preview for another new class, then nerf the previous one. I became the strongest drk in my world, yet I was overshadowed by the most common mechanic. Not just in dps, in mobility, in money making, in potions, in just blunt skills. We all have preferences, but it's like investing into a magikarp when you know it'll never evolve into gyrados, what's the point?
So you're saying with those goals in mind you can't recreate your experience? Cut it with the childish lecture about how you appreciate stuff more than everyone else. I didn't start out as someone rich and powerful who killed everything. I grew up in 3 different guilds, I even met my girlfriend on this game, you think I could do all that obsessing over profit? No but it's certainly something to consider as well as being efficient. It opens door's, it allows you to open doors for others. Let's face it you can't be a guildmaster if you can't successfully participate in reindeer games. You keep speaking for yourself and your experience, but the game isn't dedicated for you nor preferences. Players want to be able to walk through the same doors as their predecessors, want to do something for more than themselves, and they are incredibly limited because of nexon's poor management. That isn't simply specific to power creeping but a whole mess of problems which you can clearly see in employee reviews of the company.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
I don't judge players on what they accomplish, I ask them what they do want to accomplish and help them do so. I protected players who got scammed, reimbursed them with my own funds, I gave people free boss drops because I had the accessibility to do it, I had that door open and I gave them a step up. Players can't do that without either hacking or spending a grand, and you know what, if nexon doesn't stop them, I'd rather they hack then nexon get money they don't deserve.
Oh you got to level 200, -claps- what that take you 6 months maximum? hahahaha. Please it hits when you actually see what the company does, it hit's when you realize once you can down all the bosses, once you helped everyone you could, it doesn't matter, you get bored, you walk away because repeating the same bull sh`it is only what an idiot does. Before you continue about your some legendary OG player who plays the game right, you should probably know that I accomplished nearly 100 fold more than you did doing exactly what you suggested. I got to be the strongest before dupe gear become a necessity, I got the strongest not including players who hack as rivals, and some hackers I did surpass. I did it through friendships, through bossing, through marketing, through events, through lucky mother f`ucking drops. I did it all on a dark knight, back when bigfoot was the biggest thing since bread, and was mocked throughout my entire career how I'd be much better as a hero, then a paladin when that patch came out. Through all of that I played because my class was fun. Hell I logged into omok, you ever played that? A mini game within a game? I have over 10 thousand games. I did it when it didn't benefit me, I did it for, you guessed it fun. So this entire argument is not only crying stupidity to me, but it's quite pretentious of you to even bother using that as a point without even knowing my history.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents
There's no fun in a game that you have to ignore the community in general in order to have fun. And eventually players gain dreams "I want to be like so and so, I want to be able to do it myself so I can pass the loots to everyone, I'll do it to show a good example to those new players!" then realize it's impossible to accomplish without a bank account or a questionable moral.
So please shove it. If you want to butt kiss nexon and support their incompetency as a whole as they run a perfectly good game to the ground with their constant neglect, be my guest. My gf and I are over it.
No, this is precisely the point of the video in the OP. There are ways to expand the content in the game without obsoleting old systems and pressuring players to buy the latest and greatest new items to stay on the treadmill. Nexon has done an absolutely horrible job with this in every aspect of the game. They push power creep when they don't even need to. New classes could be fun and interesting without being absurdly overpowered. New bosses could be challenging without doing insane amounts of damage. But it's easier just to do the same thing they already did and just crank up the numbers a bit each time, so that's what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTwoCents