Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sammy134
Hello fellow Warriors!
First of all I'd like to say Hello to everyone and I am new to southperry. I have been browsing these warrior threads for a long time now and I wanted to ask an opinion, so I joined the community. Getting to the good stuff my question pertains to dark knights and possibly aran's but if you have the answer to my question by all means help me please. Recently after the dark knight changes it looks like I will be changing my hero to a dark knight when this red update is out for GMS. I wanted to get a head start and start looking for a weapon. In GMS both the spear and polearm cheap prices and I have enough to obtain both and more. My question is which one is worth it.
Now, the biggest difference I could see between the fafnir spear and the fafnir polearm is the weapon attack difference and the attk speed difference.
Fafnir Spear is currently at Normal attack speed (6) with a weapon attack of 171 average.
Fafnir Polearm is currently at Fast attack speed (5) with a weapon attack of 153 average.
Looking at how dark knights scale with weapon attack I am not sure what to pick. With booster I assume that dark knights attack at Faster (3) with a spear. This is off the knowledge of the fact that booster doubles your attack speed. "Doubles the attack speed of your weapon. Must have a spear or polearm equipped". And does this leave the polearm at 2.5 or does it round down to (2) being fastest because I don't see a column for (2.5).
Also which one would be better in this case. I am going to assume that polearm gets you to fastest (2) in the next part, so if that is wrong than whatever I say below is wrong. Would the (1) attack speed difference be worth 18 weapon attack difference from the two weapons. The %/s with hyper skill with no sharp eyes with (3) on 0% pdr 1 target is 20197%/s and with (2) is 22135%/s giving me a difference of 1938%/s difference. and the difference with sharp eyes increases even more to 2392%/s. Now this tells me attack speed just gets better and better with more buffs but again is this worth the 18 weapon attack from a spear or am I calculating this whole thing wrong.
Thank you very much for your input(s) and I hope to hear from you all!
not really the place for these questions, there's a dedicated "warrior questions" thread in the help section, but i'll answer what i can.
booster reduces speed by 2, it doesn't "halve" it, so the spear goes from normal 6 to fast 4, and the PA from fast 5 to faster 3. (cap being 2) so for all intents and purposes the PA is better unless you manage to get 2 bonuses more to attack speed (say, decent SI and aswan +attack speed)
one attack speed is around (give or take) 1.09x damage multiplier, so if you have 500 attack with the polearm equipped, you'd need to have 545 attack with the spear equipped to break even.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
you may want to take a look at your demon avenger hyper table compared to the normal table........
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TagerBustah
Finally the proof that elemental void actually does ignore physical resistance as expected! So doesn't this make Paladins have the highest %/s at basically all major bosses in the game out of all warriors classes? Im so happy paladins are finaly great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCYXsJFFpUg#t=1m27s
I love that blast does 10 hits now and that according to the latest new skill tables lighting and holy charge finally both hit 9 targets again! But if elemental void make lightning charge the strongest charge now and we have to use ice+lightning attack pattern, it is stupid if ice is only going hit 7 targets while lighting is hitting 9.
@
JoeTang Are you going to update the paladin tables with the new data (9 targets ACB and new attack pattern)? and Also what crit rate are you using for paladins, 65%? if im not mistaken assuming Elemental void makes lightning stronger than holy and ice+burn stronger than holy, what would the best recharge pattern be after activating blast buff? we still have to alternate to build charges so im thinking fire1, ice2, lightning3, ice4, lightning5?
I will update the tables to 9 targets next time I update the OP. The only inherent critical rate a Paladin gets is from Blast I believe, so they're stuck at 47%. Using Fire and Ice is still bad. Lightning is only used to recharge/refresh Elemental Charges, and its damage bonus effect, otherwise, just keep spamming Divine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GeistesblitZ
you may want to take a look at your demon avenger hyper table compared to the normal table........
Fixed.
@ShinkuDragon I did some testing with my Phantom using level 10 Gungnir; when I raised my HP from 6xxx to 11xxx there was no difference in damage whatsoever. Your Max HP does not appear to affect it at all.
In other news, the only Hero skill Phantoms can steal is apparently Magic Crash, unless all those 15x+ Heros didn't have one point in Incising. I might try to steal Blizzard/Lightning/Divine Charge to double check if the bonus is a total damage additive, or a final damage multiplier, but that's low priority for me.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeTang
@
ShinkuDragon I did some testing with my Phantom using level 10 Gungnir; when I raised my HP from 6xxx to 11xxx there was no difference in damage whatsoever. Your Max HP does not appear to affect it at all.
so it works as it was originally thought (sometimes i wonder why we, in this case, I, listen to the KMS players when related to numbers ._.) thanks a lot for checking it.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Read the first page and still reading, is the post Unlimited wre if you have 30% def ignore on your wep and secondary and the boss has 50% def you ignore 30% of the 50% leaving you with 35% of the boss defense to deal with then 30% of that is removed as well leaving you with 24.5% def to deal with?
Also your chart goes into the sidebar, is there something that you know of that I can do in chrome to see the complete chart?
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lulzace
Read the first page and still reading, is the post Unlimited wre if you have 30% def ignore on your wep and secondary and the boss has 50% def you ignore 30% of the 50% leaving you with 35% of the boss defense to deal with then 30% of that is removed as well leaving you with 24.5% def to deal with?
Also your chart goes into the sidebar, is there something that you know of that I can do in chrome to see the complete chart?
zoom out, i don't know the specific command gor chrome though
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeTang
I will update the tables to 9 targets next time I update the OP. The only inherent critical rate a Paladin gets is from Blast I believe, so they're stuck at 47%. Using Fire and Ice is still bad. Lightning is only used to recharge/refresh Elemental Charges, and its damage bonus effect, otherwise, just keep spamming Divine.
oh I thought elemental void damage boost made lightning stronger, plus all the paladin videos ive seen from KMS v1.2.196 and KMST 1.2.481 they all spam lighting and only recharge with ice or holy. They very rarely use holy charge and at thier lvls holy should be maxed. http://www.southperry.net/showthread...KMST%201.2.481
Wouldnt the base damage for charges be:
lightning: 250+15(ice)+210(ev)=475%
ice: 140+15(fire)+70(co)+210(ev)=435%
holy: 411+21(light)=432%
fire: 140+70(co)+210(ev)=420%
or is that wrong?
Also yea i forgot about combat orders i meant 67% crit rate for both blast and ACB. The 42% plus the 20% from Blasts hyper skill. According to the Blast skill readout wouldn't blast hyper have to add to blast buff increasing total crit rate for all skills?
Blast
Changed - Description (적 하나에게 강력한 다단히트 공격을 날린다. 블래스트는 방어력 무시 효과와 추가 크리티컬 확률이 적용되며 일정확률로 대상을 즉사시킬 수 있다. --> 단일 적을 강력하게 공격하며 #c엘리멘탈 차지가 모두 충전되어 있으면 강력한 효과#를 짧은 시간동안 얻을 수 있다.)
Changed - Level readout (MP #mpCon 소비, #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격, 몬스터의 방어력 #ignoreMobpdpR% 무시, 추가 크리티컬 확률 #cr%, #prop% 확률로 즉사 --> MP #mpCon 소비, #damage% 데미지로 #attackCount번 공격.\n엘리멘탈 차지 모두 충전되어 있을 경우 #time초 동안 크리티컬 확률 #cr%, 방어 무시 비율 #ignoreMobpdpR%, 총 데미지 #damR% 증가)
Changed - Delay (blast - 840 ms --> blastNew - 840 ms, blastNew2 - 840 ms)
New - Hitbox (280%)
Changed - damage (290 --> 318) (170+4*level --> 198+4*level)
Changed - attackCount (6 --> 7) (6 --> 7)
New - mobCount (1) (1)
New - time (45) (15+level)
Changed - prop (10 --> 0) (roundUp(level/3) --> 0)
New - x (1) (1)
New - damR (40) (10+level)
Changed - cr (50 --> 40) (20+level --> 10+level)
Removed - criticaldamageMin
http://www.southperry.net/showthread...=1#post1158479
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TagerBustah
oh I thought elemental void damage boost made lightning stronger, plus all the paladin videos ive seen from KMS v1.2.196 and KMST 1.2.481 they all spam lighting and only recharge with ice or holy. They very rarely use holy charge and at thier lvls holy should be maxed.
http://www.southperry.net/showthread...KMST%201.2.481
Wouldnt the base damage for charges be:
lightning: 250+15(ice)+210(ev)=475%
ice: 140+15(fire)+70(co)+210(ev)=435%
holy: 411+21(light)=432%
fire: 140+70(co)+210(ev)=420%
or is that wrong?
Also yea i forgot about combat orders i meant 67% crit rate for both blast and ACB. The 42% plus the 20% from Blasts hyper skill. According to the Blast skill readout wouldn't blast hyper have to add to blast buff increasing total crit rate for all skills?
You are correct, I've updated the OP to include a Lightning + Blizzard combination. It is superior when you have 0% Boss Damage, but loses out as you gain more. I've removed the All Charges combination as it's never useful to have. Blast spamming uses Divine + Lightning to recharge. I've removed Normal (6) and Fast (5) because if you want to use a Slow 7 or 8 weapon, hah. I don't care.
They should have 77% with Blast - Critical Rate and Hyper Critical Rate.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeTang
You are correct, I've updated the OP to include a Lightning + Blizzard combination. It is superior when you have 0% Boss Damage, but loses out as you gain more. I've removed the All Charges combination as it's never useful to have. Blast spamming uses Divine + Lightning to recharge. I've removed Normal (6) and Fast (5) because if you want to use a Slow 7 or 8 weapon, hah. I don't care.
They should have 77% with Blast - Critical Rate and Hyper Critical Rate.
Cool, thanks Joe!
So when red comes i will have 100% base crit rate, since i have 40% already without potential. That is great news!
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Thanks. Works in ff, chrome is derping though.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
i wanted to ask 2 things:
1st is soul master better than mihile with 200% boss damage(here they deliver more dmg but in all classes tables mihile does better)
2nd i saw a video of a soul warrior just using solar time instead of solunar time and i noticed the little delay they have doing speeding dance with solunar time. So theres anyway they do more damaga with just solar , lunar or solunar time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwF90twW530
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bernie47
i wanted to ask 2 things:
1st is soul master better than mihile with 200% boss damage(here they deliver more dmg but in all classes tables mihile does better)
2nd i saw a video of a soul warrior just using solar time instead of solunar time and i noticed the little delay they have doing speeding dance with solunar time. So theres anyway they do more damaga with just solar , lunar or solunar time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwF90twW530
Soul Master and Mihile are extremely similar in %/s, but Soul Master has higher base defense ignore, so they will perform better at bosses with equivalent gear.
With regards to Solunar Time, there exists an issue where if you lag, there will be a large delay between switching skills. I was under the impression that anyone actually from Korea wouldn't experience this, but for me, when I used Solunar Time, my Speeding Sunset brings me into the air, and then I land and wait a bit before Dance of Moon can activate.
Otherwise, if it functions perfectly, Solunar Time should be better despite Dance of Moon being slightly slower than Speeding Sunset because of the 1.2x increase in damage, higher critical rate, and increased attack speed.
I'm fairly confident that when you're in Solunar Time, you still use the bonuses from Master of the Sword, but I've since deleted my Soul Master as it sucked with lag, and I can't double check. That may be the issue with why it's worse; maxed Solunar Time's bonuses may be lower than maxed Master of the Sword, so despite getting both bonuses, it would be weaker than purely Master of the Sword (Rising Sun)'s effects, especially if you already cap your weapon speed. I believe this was one of the things that I checked for when I advanced to 4th, but it's possible I either forgot to make note of it, or they've changed it since then. A simple way to check is to see if your critical hit rate changes from being in Falling Moon to being in Solunar Time, if you can find someone on KMS with a 4th job Soul Master.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
So it would appear realistically, that Demon slayer is really still better than demon avenger even in bossing situations that would involve >2 mobs, like Horntail, empress, czak?
Unless of course DA some how has much higher natural range than DS
The only place i can see DA being better is if you 1hko, which is irrelevant at SH/Golems :/
Was really hoping that DA would at least be better at bossing by a bigger margin :(
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
KMST 1.2.482
Zero:Alpha:Beta:KMST 1.2.483
Zero:Alpha:Beta:
Here's an attempt at Zero, with comparison of 1.2.482 and 1.2.483's buffs. A big thanks to @Spadow for his information to help get this running.
Zero table represents combat with tagging and assist. The weapon speed listed is Beta's weapon speed. Alpha's weapon speed is Beta - 3, so at Faster (3), Alpha is blocked by the speed cap. If I have time, I'll look into whether or not the MPE Green Potions work in KMS, if @Mazz isn't already going to.
Alpha table is Alpha solo.
Beta table is Beta solo.
This is a rather experimental approach and I'm not sure how accurate the Zero table is. Alpha and Beta tables should be decently representative of their maximum potential though, as they are fundamentally the same as other classes in this regard.
Zero process is as follows:
Shadow Rain, check buffs.
Alpha will use Combination 4 if it's available. If not, it will try Combination 3, then 2, then 1. Then if Alpha's Rapid Time duration is less than 10s left, it will tag, otherwise repeat.
Beta will use Combination 4 if it's available. If not, it will try Combination 2, then 1. Combination 3 I've found is extremely detrimental to DPS. Then if Beta's Rapid Time Duration is less than 10s left, it will tag, otherwise, repeat.
If Assist is on (i.e. up to 3 seconds after tagging), they will use the Assist combination, which is the bulk of the extra damage that Tagging provides. Assist uses the combination's non-Advanced version. In the case of Upper Slash -> Advanced Power Stomp, Alpha will assist with Moon Strike -> Pierce Thrust. In the case of Moon Strike -> Pierce Thrust -> Shadow Strike, Beta will assist with Upper Slash -> Power Stomp -> Upper Slash. In the case of a combination with a cooldown, if the cooldown is active, the combination will not be used in the Assist. If the combination activates, it will activate the cooldown.
A major overestimation, in my opinion, is (Advanced) Throwing Weapon. Optimally, it will hit 13 times. Realistically, it's not going to be this high unless it's something that can be rushed by Advanced Throwing Weapon, or they're gigantic. I may look into scaling this, because I don't think it's possible to ever hit that many times. This contributes a significant portion to Beta %/s (40% of her overall %/s here)
Other assumptions: Shockwaves, and Advanced Earth Break's Field effect are assumed to have no delay associated with them. Blades are assumed to have their 30ms delay, which is like nothing, and nearly immeasurable in-game. May re-evaluate without them.
Every new skill activates Rapid Time. Assists activate Rapid Time's stacks, but I've assumed they do not activate the cooldown reduction. Rapid Time is assumed to affect everything except Critical Bind as that's monster immunity, rather than traditional cooldown.
Both of Rapid Time's bonuses are assumed to only be effective if Assist is on, otherwise, only their respective bonuses are used. This is mentioned in the skill notes, but some testing may be required. i.e. if Assist is off, but both stacks are active, does Beta still have a high crit rate? Does Alpha still have more total damage?
Beta's Armor Split appears to be a mob debuff, and is treated as such; Alpha will get the bonus if its duration is still active.
Armor Split, Critical Bind, Combat Recovery, and Divine Leer are assumed to activate from Assists.
Time Force is assumed to be infinite. Doesn't seem like anyone ever comes close to running out. I'd need to test the recovery rate myself to see if this matters.
Other things of note: 1.2.482's Zero is actually significantly weaker than noted here, as Assists would not invoke the entire combination, but only the first skill of a combination. This is under the most precise and optimal conditions, and compared to any other class, reaching this precision seems to be significantly more difficult. I think the most comparative would be either Kaiser, timing the Wing Beats, Fire Poison, timing their reDoTs, maybe Demon Slayer timing their Force spending, and I would expect their real %/s to be lower than this.
That being said, it is my opinion that Zero's Dual Combat %/s is a bit too low; it's way too close to their solo damage, with the most significant bonus being from Beta's Armor Split debuff. Tagging itself is assumed to have 0 associated delay, but a lot of aspects of it make it a lot weaker. Assist only lasting 3 seconds is extremely bad. Beta's attack speed is too slow to take advantage of this. Alpha can activate more Assists from Beta in theory, though it likely doesn't work that way. It still results in less effectiveness for the slower class, who reduces her cooldowns slower, and wastes more time gaining stacks if they run out, etc. Thankfully, Beta's attacks chain to be quite fast. Beta's +total damage% from attacking fewer monsters results in less effective boosting from Boss Damage. Maybe a flat multiplier would have been more effective here, but I really like the concept. I think Throwing Weapon should stop moving if it hits a stationary monster, instead of passing through Zakum after doing half its hits. Of course, it would need a damage nerf in this case, but that quality of life is important. Even an effect like Bat Swarm would be interesting, though managing that with the cooldown would make it difficult to implement.
I think overall, Assist could use a bit of a duration buff, and Beta's 3rd and 4th combinations could use a bit of a buff as well. They're nowhere near as strong as Alpha's in %/s, especially Combination 3. As great as a keydown is, its %/s is just too low, and when you need to Tag, or switch attacks to reduce cooldowns, and this skill lasts 7 seconds... If I were to design it, I would turn it into an AOE that follows you, with significantly reduced damage so it deals continuous damage without your input and time.
Combination 4 is actually detrimental in these calculations, but that's because Combination 2 is grossly overestimated I believe. This also works under the pretense (though I'm not sure if it actually occurs in the calculation) that you can have multiple Advanced Throwing Weapons active if you can reduce the cooldown enough. I think there's enough cooldown reductions occurring that this happens.
The extra weapon attack and presumably higher weapon multiplier may make up for the difference in edps, but Whirlwind just simply needs to be better.
As a reference, it brings Beta's Normal (6) %/s from 20k to 11k/, using 150ms. If I take Nexon's number of 100ms, (which default rounds to 120ms), it goes down to 12k%/s if you use it.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
@JoeTang; I can't seem to log into KMS for some reason, after choosing a character my screen freezes for a few seconds then I get kicked to login, and trying to relog gives the ID logged in error, so it'll probably be faster for you/someone else to do it. I also don't have a character around level 40 anyway so I'd have to train one up, was going to do a Bandit because there's a level 25 faster(3) dagger but if you have a character already then that'd be even easier.
@Spadow; @HighOnMushrooms; or @iAmFear; might also be able to test if Extreme Green Potions from Monster Park Extreme allow characters to bypass the speed cap, not sure if you guys have any level 40-100 characters that use fast weapons though =o
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mazz
@
JoeTang; I can't seem to log into KMS for some reason, after choosing a character my screen freezes for a few seconds then I get kicked to login, and trying to relog gives the ID logged in error, so it'll probably be faster for you/someone else to do it. I also don't have a character around level 40 anyway so I'd have to train one up, was going to do a Bandit because there's a level 25 faster(3) dagger but if you have a character already then that'd be even easier.
@
Spadow; @
HighOnMushrooms; or @
iAmFear; might also be able to test if Extreme Green Potions from Monster Park Extreme allow characters to
bypass the speed cap, not sure if you guys have any level 40-100 characters that use fast weapons though =o
I just tried with my Shadower, Dragon Kreda Fast (4) with Booster and Green potion, and Noob Fruit Knife Faster (3) with no difference. I also noticed that Meso Explosion apparently isn't affected by weapon speed anymore, and I think Double Stab still has a 2 weapon speed bonus to it which is dumb.
I guess enjoy being broken fast in GMS.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeTang
I just tried with my Shadower, Dragon Kreda Fast (4) with Booster and Green potion, and Noob Fruit Knife Faster (3) with no difference. I also noticed that Meso Explosion apparently isn't affected by weapon speed anymore, and I think Double Stab still has a 2 weapon speed bonus to it which is dumb.
I guess enjoy being broken fast in GMS.
Figures it'd be a GMS bug... at least Kaiser isn't the only class that can break the speed cap now though.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaringWaffle
So it would appear realistically, that Demon slayer is really still better than demon avenger even in bossing situations that would involve >2 mobs, like Horntail, empress, czak?
Unless of course DA some how has much higher natural range than DS
The only place i can see DA being better is if you 1hko, which is irrelevant at SH/Golems :/
Was really hoping that DA would at least be better at bossing by a bigger margin :(
I've always been under the impression that DA have higher ranges than DS. 36 HP on a DA is equal to 1 STR on a DS. This might be different in GMS where you can't get additional options, but I've seen some KMS gear with over 2k base HP, and they have a lot of +HP% skills. They also scale better with total damage/boss damage. I think due to the imperfection of how you gain Demon Force realistically, DA may be a bit more effective if you maintain full HP without wasting Release Overload.
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
How much damage would the dawn warrior do with just solar time? Cause im trying to choose between mihile and revamped dawn warrior; (
Re: Warrior %/s (KMS Unlimited & GMS Tempest)
@JoeTang
I was wondering how you calculated the DA DPS in regards to current HP? Was it kept @ 100%?
Also, is there any way you can compute the DS DPS assuming fury is not an issue (where reg. atks would not be included to regen fury). This is largely due to the fact that potion pot heals DF now.