31/1 - Characters' max level is increased to 250!

The problem here is assuming that the person who cares about the rank posting is solely because other people can see it. And that that person grinded for that rank for *other* people to see. That is not always the case.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

I'm not sure if you're keeping up with the actual discussion or just picking and choosing what you want to hear, you tend to do that a lot. Once reaching 200 you're promised certain things, included that position on ranking. It's pretty obvious they won't randomly remove that, and most likely have an archive, but it's pretty disappointing that most players don't think they deserve that right at the very least.



There is always work in a game, for christ sake you play MMO games, the worst offenders of this, it's downright to retarded to say there is no work in an MMO at all. The rankings were also in place to encourage competition within the player base, like..well every other game.




Again you clearly haven't been following the conversation. It's pretty much silly to assume nexon won't put up an archive. I'm arguing against the cynical kid's who believe that there is no value in accomplishment in a game, much like friendships, or relationships in general. It should be apart of the game's history, not swept under the rug as an improvement for "potential for end game content", when the current cap barely had enough of it as it is.

If they don't deserve the ranking, why do the deserve the mount, the medal, or anything really. They did it, so what right? It's not a personal problem to me, so you can stop acting as such.

Geeze arguing with people over the same points, over something that should be common sense is exhausting :|

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Actually, modern game design is all about making sure people never feel like they're working! Even modern MMOs focus on story, questing, and exploration as advancement for the player instead of grinding. Grinding is seen as boring and to be avoided.

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Originally Posted by Dusk

All you get for hitting level 200 is a handful of in-game bonuses and a public number, and unless that number happens to be 1, or maybe at the very highest 5, nobody but you, a couple of friends, and a handful of strangers on the internet will care. Take a good look at what you're actually working for, and if that's worth it.

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Who else do you really want to care? It's a personal accomplishment, everyone can agree on that, but it gives you an end result, one that people respectively deserve. This isn't a philosophy issue, it's a hobby, they make an accomplishment, it should be recognized, whether people care or not. The people who made those accomplishments do care, not because they lost their 30 seconds of fame, if that much, but because they had something permanent to show for it. There is no logical reason why that shouldn't be left alone without hindering game progression.

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Originally Posted by Dusk

I used to play MapleStory like you do, and it took me the longest time to realize that it's just a game, and my accomplishments within the game don't matter to anyone else. Now I no longer play MMOs to feel like I'm accomplishing anything. I currently play Guild Wars 2 so that I can do stuff together with friends. I'm not obligated to continue playing if it gets boring, there's plenty of other things I could be doing.

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That sounds like a personal problem, not a problem for me. I accomplished my personal goals and just lingered. You're preaching to the choir on this subject, I don't even play MMO's anymore, not until blade and soul comes out anyway. I can assure you Dusk you dedicated a lot more to this game than I did, but even as disgruntled as you are for falling in this clearly obvious power creep, doesn't change the fact that I can sympathize with players who did dedicate that time. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not arguing on my behalf as I didnt spend the time to get past level 170, I felt that cap was more than enough.

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Originally Posted by Dusk

P.S. Static rankings don't encourage competition, because no one wants to be #24,198. When's the last time you cared about who was going to be the first to hit level 200?

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PS the number one spot took 3 years to grab since the release of the ranking system. People who have small goals in mind want to be the first level 200 of their class, the first 200 of their world, or even in the top 20 of the world/class. I assure you this ranking system, static or not, has put in its contribution towards elitist grinders.

@Kabanaw;

Give me any MMO and I'll show you without even knowing about it where "work" is required. Whether modern gaming is trying to get rid of it or not, challenges are necessary and some of those challenges are "hunt x until y drops with a .01% rate". Or are those fun?

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

That sounds like a personal problem, not a problem for me. I accomplished my personal goals and just lingered. You're preaching to the choir on this subject, I don't even play MMO's anymore, not until blade and soul comes out anyway. I can assure you Dusk you dedicated a lot more to this game than I did, but even as disgruntled as you are for falling in this clearly obvious power creep, doesn't change the fact that I can sympathize with players who did dedicate that time. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not arguing on my behalf as I didnt spend the time to get past level 170, I felt that cap was more than enough.

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Wait, where did I say I had a problem?

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Originally Posted by Dusk

Wait, where did I say I had a problem?

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I used to play MapleStory like you do, and it took me the longest time to realize that it's just a game,


Sounds like a big problem to me -shrugs-

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

I used to play MapleStory like you do, and it took me the longest time to realize that it's just a game,


Sounds like a big problem to me -shrugs-

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A problem that I got over, and problem you apparently still have.

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Originally Posted by Dusk

A problem that I got over, and problem you apparently still have.

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Being able to sympathize with players who lose that acknowledgement is applying common sense, not your problem you seem to be proud you got over.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

Being able to sympathize with players who lose that acknowledgement is applying common sense, not your problem you seem to be proud you got over. empathy

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Sorry, there's a big difference between common sense and sympathy.

Moving on from a game !=> there was a big problem. There shouldn't be anything to be proud of for moving on, to begin with.

For the record, a ranking is an achievement by itself. What's unsaid says volumes.

I will say this because it is becoming incredibly annoying to read: stop insulting people or using ad hominums. It triggers lashbacks, catalyses the derailment of threads, and makes your words less appealing and/or convincing. An argument (read: the civilised sparring of ideas with a logical flow) does not involving calling people something like puny-brained.

Hadriel

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

Because it's supposed to be set in stone. Do you not think expirable item's in maplestory events aren't stupid? Why is this any different? Why invest so much time (back then) into something that would expire with no acknowledgement of the daunting task you achieved. I don't even own a level 200 and I can sympathize those who took the time who did.



Why do you think that items that are inferior to items half their level requirement is a given but a separate rank system isn't? Or that players being frustrated losing that accolade?

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I don't understand why taking a snapshot and then sharing it on a MS website like this one or basil wouldn't be enough. Everyone who wants it is capable of doing it. Its not like the rankings will change...ever.

I sorta get how you can sympathize because it was A LOT of pineappleing work just for me to be lvl 98 by the release of 4th job on a wk, but at the same time a ranking system that CAN NOT CHANGE once they hit max level is stupid to me and flawed. A ranking system should ALWAYS allow a new comers the opportunity of reaching the top. That's the main reason I dont understand why people are actually making this a serious issue.

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Originally Posted by hadriel

Sorry, there's a big difference between common sense and sympathy.

Moving on from a game !=> there was a big problem. There shouldn't be anything to be proud of for moving on, to begin with.

For the record, a ranking is an achievement by itself. What's unsaid says volumes.

I will say this because it is becoming incredibly annoying to read: stop insulting people or using ad hominums. It triggers lashbacks, catalyses the derailment of threads, and makes your words less appealing and/or convincing. An argument (read: the civilised sparring of ideas with a logical flow) does not involving calling people something like puny-brained.

Hadriel

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Common sense being applied that there should be an archive to reflect the accomplishments players clearly made, not simply erase them. Sympathy to those who are taking this whiplash for voicing out their opinion as something selfish and/or un-progressive. Please attempt to follow the conversation before trying to be a white knight, which is also frowned upon. Not even mention the little room you have to talk with considering people made a thread about how obnoxious signing your own name is, but hey, we all have our styles don't we?

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Originally Posted by hadriel

t triggers lashbacks, catalyses the derailment of threads, and makes your words less appealing and/or convincing. An argument (read: the civilised sparring of ideas with a logical flow) does not involving calling people something like puny-brained.

Hadriel

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If condescension distracts you from your points, than they weren't worth speaking in the first place. Also like to mention majority of my post is in fact an argument, so I suggest you actually read the conversations before, again, trying to white knight. You look less silly that way.

Then again you should probably telling this to dusk considering he is/was pretty condescending specifically to those who made those accomplishment, but what point is there to point fingers.

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Originally Posted by valhala556

I don't understand why taking a snapshot and then sharing it on a MS website like this one or basil wouldn't be enough. Everyone who wants it is capable of doing it. Its not like the rankings will change...ever.

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The company/game should acknowledge it, not just the community. They encouraged/challenged and asked us to get to that point, we shouldn't have to "compromise" by making fan variants of them.

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Originally Posted by valhala556

I sorta get how you can sympathize because it was A LOT of pineappleing work just for me to be lvl 98 by the release of 4th job on a wk, but at the same time a ranking system that CAN NOT CHANGE once they hit max level is stupid to me and flawed. A ranking system should ALWAYS allow a new comers the opportunity of reaching the top. That's the main reason I dont understand why people are actually making this a serious issue.

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Again, I'm not 200, I don't play maplestory and this whole mess is not even relevant to me. However I find it awfully silly how many people are essentially saying "Its a game, changes happen, deal with it, we shouldn't be catering to you", considering how much effort it took for those who did care about the game. I have a lot of friends and people who use this very forum who did a lot of work to accomplish those goals.

Though on the subject of encouragement, I think that's quite the stretch considering miracle cubes, hackers rampant, and other sorts of social problems throughout the game, these new rankings will be completely conquered by ex hackers, or even current hackers alike. Hopefully nexon will fix majority of those problems before this point, but I have little faith personally.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

@Kabanaw;

Give me any MMO and I'll show you without even knowing about it where "work" is required. Whether modern gaming is trying to get rid of it or not, challenges are necessary and some of those challenges are "hunt x until y drops with a .01% rate". Or are those fun?

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Those aren't considered fun, they're considered bad design. Nobody actually likes those. Nearly everyone agrees that games would be better if they were gone. I'm not sure how that was supposed to help your argument.

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

Those aren't considered fun, they're considered bad design. Nobody actually likes those. Nearly everyone agrees that games would be better if they were gone. I'm not sure how that was supposed to help your argument.

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You didn't name me a Modern gaming example that would dissolve the initial argument to begin with. I can name one, but it's not available yet.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

You didn't name me a Modern gaming example that would dissolve the initial argument to begin with. I can name one, but it's not available yet.

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Oh, you want games where there are no work?

Journey. Any Valve game. Skyrim. Fallout. XCom: Enemy Unknown. From what I've experienced thus far, Borderlands 2.

MMOs? I've heard very good things about The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 for keeping the player engaged.

Games can have slower sections, sure, it's just a part of pacing. But I rarely feel if ever that the game is wasting my time.

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

Oh, you want games where there are no work?

Journey. Any Valve game. Skyrim. Fallout. XCom: Enemy Unknown. From what I've experienced thus far, Borderlands 2.

MMOs? I've heard very good things about The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 for keeping the player engaged.

Games can have slower sections, sure, it's just a part of pacing. But I rarely feel if ever that the game is wasting my time.

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I was going to quote your original post some hours ago, but I forgot and am now too lazy to find it.

What you are describing is a fundamental difference in Eastern versus Western gaming cultures. Koreans and the Japanese, they love to grind, I don't know where the poll is, but there is one. I've also read an article somewhere detailing this very difference in great detail. I'm sorry I cannot provide my references but simply looking at console games produced gives some idea, your Western RPG examples versus something like Final Fantasy or many other JRPG.

We're fighting a losing war here, grinding is in the culture.

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

Oh, you want games where there are no work?

Journey. Any Valve game. Skyrim. Fallout. XCom: Enemy Unknown. From what I've experienced thus far, Borderlands 2.

MMOs? I've heard very good things about The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 for keeping the player engaged.

Games can have slower sections, sure, it's just a part of pacing. But I rarely feel if ever that the game is wasting my time.

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....Mmo's specifically, and both those games do in fact require work, neither was I asking what kept engaged, maplestory keeps plenty of people engaged. Forget it, I'm just beating a dead horse at this point.

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

....Mmo's specifically, and both those games do in fact require work, neither was I asking what kept engaged, maplestory keeps plenty of people engaged. Forget it, I'm just beating a dead horse at this point.

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Yeah, when somebody calls their opinion common sense I guess it's time to quit because it's meaningless to argue.

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

Yeah, when somebody calls their opinion common sense I guess it's time to quit because it's meaningless to argue.

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Considered it's a group consensus no one disagree's with and I'm arguing against the general responses that are frankly "Stop complaining", yes, I will say, the best solution is to offer a archive of the previous rankings, thus common sense to implement.

Just stop, you're hurting yourself at this point :|

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Originally Posted by KhainiWest

Considered it's a group consensus no one disagree's with and I'm arguing against the general responses that are frankly "Stop complaining", yes, I will say, the best solution is to offer a archive of the previous rankings, thus common sense to implement.

Just stop, you're hurting yourself at this point :|

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I do not think that word means what you think it means

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Originally Posted by Kabanaw

I do not think that word means what you think it means

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Yes because that ambiguous statement is helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8