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+---- Thread: A broke Mages Guide to Gear (/showthread.php?tid=892)
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A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Chompy - 2008-07-12
And now we see why I said that the idea of Ap into HP is so complicated.
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I am supporting HP gear for broke people BECAUSE it is cheaper.
Later using Hp gear is not so good (i.e When you have mesos for Int gear)
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Now whether I think a few levels of Beginner Hp Rates will kill your mage.
No.
I do not.
The usefulness of it for Mages still seems nominal.
But for Clerics it is significant methinks (to an extent Magical accuracy kinda limits training too high)
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Really I think the argument you too should focus on is...
SHOULD BROKE ASS MAGES CONSIDER IT?
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I see both sides.
I am not going to recommend it in the main part since I have not tried it.
Though It is a possibility I'll make some random Cleric On a new server to test it.(Llonda plox)
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - safire - 2008-07-13
Harrisonized Wrote:During fourth job however, I believe it is reversed. FP = Bishop > IL. The reason is that mist is almost as fast as genesis, however, uses significantly less money. IL however, will be forced to use twice a Bishops money to gain back at the same rate.
I don't think mist comparable to genesis o.o.
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Felicitates - 2008-07-13
safire Wrote:I don't think mist comparable to genesis o.o.
Skelegons being poison weak will take constant damage from mist :x
Genesis needs to be recasted and burn more MP in the time it takes to just mist a map.
Damage rate is on par with genesis basically.
They take damage based on how much HP they have. Skelegons would take 4k damage every second (maybe less), Genesis takes 3-4 seconds to cast.
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Harrisonized - 2008-07-13
safire Wrote:I don't think mist comparable to genesis o.o.In the first skelegon map, the one most common for people to mist, I can make a rotation in about 18 seconds. That's about ~15 skelegons every 18 seconds, which in reality, is about ~50 skelegons a minute.
In the large genesis, where Bishops are 2 hitting with their genesis, that means that there is a 5 second cast time to kill each set of 8 skelegons. 5 second cast time to kill 8 skelegons with one second respawn time in between each cast, which is 8 skelegons to 6 seconds. That's about ~80 skelegons a minute.
I assure you that FP mages use much less than 5/8th of what a Bishop spends. That alone make FP mages have higher efficiency at a decent exp ratio.
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Harrisonized - 2008-07-13
LazyBui Wrote:There's more to the game than Genesis and Skelegons. It's not channeling "so much int" into HP, it's 25 points if you do it as a Beginner. 5 levels worth of damage.
LUK has nothing to do with survivability, it only determines the regular class gear you can wear. LUK doesn't directly affect your ability to survive. You shouldn't be considering LUK as a viable option at all, much less a "LUK v. HP: The Great Battle" type thing. Coming from other games, I started playing Maple like I would those games. I didn't use potions unless I absolutely needed to. It took me a long time to get rid of that habit. And even now, I die sometimes because I misjudge the necessity for a potion. Having more HP makes it harder to fail.
Firstly, it's not a minimal gain with a huge loss, it's 5 levels of damage versus ~20 levels of HP. Secondly, that's a much fairer assessment of scrolled gear (assuming average scrolling). Now try putting costs to it to see how much it would actually cost across the worlds. Also, your own idea that that much HP shouldn't be necessary somewhat works against you - why put any money into HP you won't be using? Wouldn't it be better spent on matk?
Plus, to get ~20 levels of HP from gear, you'd need 200-280 HP on gear. Assuming a generous average of 70 HP per gear, that's 3-4 gear pieces - and I guarantee that you can get way, WAY more magic attack on that many pieces of gear than the 25 AP cost you in the first place. If you want to talk about being weak, why would you suggest HP gear?
I'll reply in order.
Regaining the 'final' stage. AP resets cost $3.10 each at the moment. Resetting 25 AP from HP into INT will cost you $77.50. Nothing in the game is even remotely worth that much.
200-280 HP on gear is quite simple and can be done very early on. A spiegelmann + HP glove (which is the cheapest atm) + a 100%ed pig hat will get you that much. And those are easily obtainable, gloves being work gloves in which you may have an infinite supply on (with leathers), pig hat from a quest, with 100%s from an NPC, and speigelmann, which you should have a decent one after CPQing for 20 levels.
And I honestly don't see the point anymore. You say that this is to prevent death. Yet, how will you prevent death more often if you misjudge the use of a pot whether or not you have a high amount of HP?
When judging pots, lets say for example, a monster does 200 damage.
Whether you have 400 hp or 900 hp, if you let the HP drop under 200, you die. Even if you have 900 hp, if you still let the HP drop under 200, you still die. More HP won't prevent careless error.
There's really no difference. As stated before, a Mage already has the second highest survivability in the game. If you were an archer or a hermit, then you should be concerned with HP.
Suggesting HP gear is because most people cannot afford to scroll for magic attack. The reason is that HP gear costs about 100K per scroll (which should be quite easy with all of the quests out), while Matk scrolls are constantly inflating. I was actually browsing through FM prices, and can note that the cheapest scroll for magic attack, the cape int scroll, is a ridiculous 3m+ in scania already. Since this is the guide to "Broke" mages, hence the title of the thread, we should consider what a "broke mage" would scroll, magic attack being completely out of question due to its high price.
Also, if you CPQ, dying isn't a problem because you don't lose EXP. If you're still dying after 50 because of pot misjudgements (after CPQing 20 levels), then you should relearn the basic skills of being a mage.
I strongly believe that this idea should not be considered at all. You're right in the fact that this game isn't about skelegons and genesis, but also keep in mind that 25 AP is 2.5 mp less every level, which can stack up. Also, in fourth job, the skill called "Maple Warrior" may not consider the AP in HP.
However, I understand your striving to be unique, and I respect that. For that, there's a thing called a blood bishop or a blood FP mage.
In Blood FP mages, you put ALL of your AP after 1st job advancement into HP. Then you rely on mist from the point it is maxed to 200. However, without a decent magic, the EXP will be really slow when Meteo's EXP rate increases exponentially from mist. Also, without LUK, you're only option is to go lukless, which means low defense and higher % lost on death.
A blood bishop is about the same, but will rely purely on partying to gain EXP. This will prove obsolete in fourth job, when nobody needs a leecher anymore, and genesis won't be an option for you to train with. The only choice then, is to party third job people who still need a priest, however, you'll have such a low magic that you won't be healing much.
Both of the above options have been made before. Another option is to add pure int until level 80, and then channeling all into HP. This ensures that you have enough INT to train, but you will have more HP. However, with this, you're exp rate will still be half of everyone else's. Half the speed of meteo is approximately 1x the speed of mist. Which means you might as well mist to 200 for the uber slow exp rates after 13x.
Bishops will continue three hitting skeles until higher leveled, which may 2hit but I'm uncertain about that.
A Blood IL isn't a very good option because IL rely purely on raw power to train, whereas a bishop has leeching and a fp has mist.
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - LazyBui - 2008-07-13
I don't really strive to be unique, I couldn't care less about being unique. I care about the functionality of a build.
If you're new to the game and moving up to new leveling areas, being used to a lower area can catch you off guard pretty easily. I'm saying that some HP goes a long way in surviving in the case that you're like, "Oh, wow, didn't expect that" or "Oh, wow, I forgot I was in this new location and things do more damage."
HP isn't something just for players with experience, anyone can fall into these traps.
Scrolling for HP is great on a well-established server, but you'll probably find that HP gear is much more in demand in newer servers due to having new Zakum groups establish themselves all the time. That does drive up the price by quite a fair margin - probably not so much to the point that scrolling for int/matk is, but still worth mentioning.
I agree that scrolling for HP should be an option that a broke-ass magician considers, if not THE option for HP. However, it isn't the only one. As far as AP resets go, I agree that it's expensive for such a little gain. I'm not trying to recommend putting AP into HP for those that plan on taking it back out eventually (although you could while still gaining some HP due to the higher AP bonus of Beginners).
Some of the cost could be mitigated by the use of MTS if you want to have the HP and the INT later, but that's a different subject entirely.
2.5 MP per level? Who's going to worry about 400 MP by the time you're level 200?
You get more than that from second job advance. Maple Warrior doesn't augment HP or MP even if there is AP in there and it will take a whole 2.5 stats off INT/MATK with level 20 Maple Warrior. Yes. I know. A whole 2.5. So I'm really missing 5.2 levels worth of damage.Thing about dying after level 50, if someone has PQ'd up to 50, they probably haven't learned the basic skills of being a magician in terms of leveling. Also, these skills change quite a bit based on the monster you're fighting. In a sense, you're always learning how to play your character.
Anyway, my entire point is, a guide is supposed to be just that - something that tells you what your options are. I consider the build that I took a more than viable option, thus I suggest that it is an option. You may not consider it one, but you're probably not going to be one to use the guide, are you? :O
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Russt - 2008-07-13
Actually, you are still missing 5 levels worth of damage with level 20 MW, since then a level's worth is 5% more. Haha
Extra HP allows a priest to go MG-less and HB-less at places like DTs and maybe Himes. (I wouldn't know, I haven't gotten my cleric to 3rd, so I don't actually know how much damage they do to a priest.)
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Chompy - 2008-07-14
Russt Wrote:Actually, you are still missing 5 levels worth of damage with level 20 MW, since then a level's worth is 5% more. Haha
Extra HP allows a priest to go MG-less and HB-less at places like DTs and maybe Himes. (I wouldn't know, I haven't gotten my cleric to 3rd, so I don't actually know how much damage they do to a priest.)
He isn't really suggesting a full-blood build.
More of a small sacrifice in INT power for a decent boost of hp.
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Really it only seems VERY useful on a new server- where upon it seems fairly useful.
I could see myself really considering this for a new cleric on a new server-
When one needs the 25 INT there is always MTS-or NX.
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I really am considering trying this on the new world
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - EndlessAxis - 2008-07-18
I really enjoyed readin this guide..its got a sort of comic funniness to it and not so seriousness like other guides yet gets the CLEAR message across..Good job ^^
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Beloved - 2008-07-19
Russt Wrote:Actually, you are still missing 5 levels worth of damage with level 20 MW, since then a level's worth is 5% more. Haha
Extra HP allows a priest to go MG-less and HB-less at places like DTs and maybe Himes. (I wouldn't know, I haven't gotten my cleric to 3rd, so I don't actually know how much damage they do to a priest.)
Priests need about 1400 HP to be messing around at himes.
Bishops need 2000 HP to run loose at HT after a dispel to take a raw dark wyvern hit.
Seduce Bishops need 4000 HP to be dancing around HT's tail. Any less means death.
In short, yes, it does help in the long run. Really, I think its a matter of patience. You can have this much hp if you either raise meso and invest in hp gear or you wait till you have that amount by means of leveling.
A broke Mages Guide to Gear - Chompy - 2008-07-19
EndlessAxis Wrote:I really enjoyed readin this guide..its got a sort of comic funniness to it and not so seriousness like other guides yet gets the CLEAR message across..Good job ^^
Thank you!
Always trying to help the MS community.
Updates soon I hope.